Possible Purchase, Distrubed by Pixel Reports

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k3vb0t · #1 Post by **k3vb0t** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:07 pm

I'm currently in the market for a laptop. (Thread from R Series Forum: here.)

This thread: (here) is pretty distrubing, as is this one: (here).

Initially I was trying to go on the cheap with the R series because I was going to pay for 1/2 of it. Now my parents have offered to cover the cost so I can save for other things, and given me a budget of $2000. I'd prefer to stay as far away from $2k as possible, while maybe getting the T42. But these reports of dead pixels, stuck pixels, and dying machines are quite disturbing. The reason I selected IBM over Dell were the "rock solid" reviews. If these other manufacturers can make displays that don't have these issues, why does IBM suffer?

I understand that if you have 10 customers, and 9 of them get perfect machines, you may never hear from them and you will only hear the bad review from the 1 person who got an inferior product... but it still disturbs me.

And honestly, no offense intended, but I'd rather not have Bill hand pick me a good laptop... especially with IBM's reputation, this shouldn't be required in my opinion. :\

Recommendations? Thoughts?

IBM currently has a couple of specials running, this one has a T42 for $1,599 that is pretty decked out for that price. It's got everything I need/want and more. But it doesn't list a model number, and when you click "Add to cart" it gives an error message. I also think this offer is under the "Discover" card discounts, and my family doesn't have a Discover card. Only Visa and Mastercard. I've found the Visa discount page, but this isn't listed. I can't seem to find the Mastercard page. Would I be able to order this listed laptop, or would I have to go with something else?

Thanks in advance for any replies...

Plinkerton · #2 Post by **Plinkerton** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:17 pm

Haha, Glad I could help with my horrible luck...

I would just get what you want anyway. I think there are many great T42s out there, and you are hearing of the problems.

While all this has been a big hassle for me, I am confident that my new one, which should come tomorrow, will be just fine, and work for years to come.

It seems that overall, the IBM's are still great and reputable, though hanging around here, you would think otherwise...

I'm still hopeful in IBM. I like everything about them, except that their computers have problems... Haha...

So, I guess we'll see. I still think you should give them a chance though.

MSE Environmental · #3 Post by **MSE Environmental** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:34 pm

k3vb0t wrote:I'm currently in the market for a laptop. (Thread from R Series Forum: here.)

This thread: (here) is pretty distrubing, as is this one: (here).

Initially I was trying to go on the cheap with the R series because I was going to pay for 1/2 of it. Now my parents have offered to cover the cost so I can save for other things, and given me a budget of $2000. I'd prefer to stay as far away from $2k as possible, while maybe getting the T42. But these reports of dead pixels, stuck pixels, and dying machines are quite disturbing. The reason I selected IBM over Dell were the "rock solid" reviews. If these other manufacturers can make displays that don't have these issues, why does IBM suffer?

I understand that if you have 10 customers, and 9 of them get perfect machines, you may never hear from them and you will only hear the bad review from the 1 person who got an inferior product... but it still disturbs me.

And honestly, no offense intended, but I'd rather not have Bill hand pick me a good laptop... especially with IBM's reputation, this shouldn't be required in my opinion. :\

Recommendations? Thoughts?

IBM currently has a couple of specials running, this one has a T42 for $1,599 that is pretty decked out for that price. It's got everything I need/want and more. But it doesn't list a model number, and when you click "Add to cart" it gives an error message. I also think this offer is under the "Discover" card discounts, and my family doesn't have a Discover card. Only Visa and Mastercard. I've found the Visa discount page, but this isn't listed. I can't seem to find the Mastercard page. Would I be able to order this listed laptop, or would I have to go with something else?

Thanks in advance for any replies...

I went through the same inquiry you did and the pixel deal concerned me a lot. However, I viewed this forum similar to ones I read about cars. While the problems people are having are very real, I figured the odds of my getting one with the pixel problems as being pretty slim. Considering the reviews and features, the T42 was the right choice for me.

I've been a faithful Dell user for several years. However, I needed something lighter with a little more horsepower. The reviews and recommendation of a close friend who is a Chief Technology Officer moved me away from the Dell Inspiron 600 and to the T42. Every review I read about the T42 was positive. The T42 is the best designed notebook I have ever used. It is solid and full of well thought out features. Little things like the light at the top of the screen to light the keys to allow for late night surfing really impressed me.

I've had mine for a couple of weeks and could not be more pleased. I bought almost the same model you did, except I got the 15 inch screen. (I have a friend who works for IBM and I got a great deal with the Employee Purchase Program, paid about what you are paying)

So feel confident you are making a very solid purchase.

Good Luck.

Mike

Conmee · #4 Post by **Conmee** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:59 pm

Also keep in mind that forums like these generally attract those who have a gripe, are looking for answers, enthusiasts, etc... while this forum is excellent for doing your ThinkPad research, keep in mind that 99% of the folks on this forum originally came here with a problem in hand, looking for a solution.

Of course, there are those threads where folks are praising their new ThinkPad, but for the most part, you're finding threads here that exemplify the exception rather than the rule when it comes to ThinkPad quality, etc.

And not to worry you, but I'm going on having had about 2 dozen T40/T41/T42 both "p" and non-"p" models pass through my hands (both personal units and those of my employer), and I can tell you that in my humble opinion, and based on my experience, I've seen a slight uptick in screens with dead/stuck pixels, uneven backlighting, etc. Since last November, I've come across 6 units with dead/stuck pixels, including two units that I bought personally off IBM.com. The GOOD NEWS though, is that if you buy through Bill (gentleman who runs this site), for a nominal fee he will check your system prior to shipment to ensure you have no dead/stuck pixels. It's well worth the extra money, especially since it will save you the trouble of returning a possibly defective screen and the shipping charges associated with returns.

Daniel.

admsteiner · #5 Post by **admsteiner** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:25 pm

I'd say get the T42. IBM has a 30 day return policy, if you get a dead pixel, call them and they'll send you a new laptop and you can send back the old one.
--Adam

#6 Post by **JaneL** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:57 pm

>And honestly, no offense intended, but I'd rather not have Bill hand pick me a good laptop... especially with IBM's reputation, this shouldn't be required in my opinion. :\
>

Why not?

jordi32 · #7 Post by **jordi32** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 8:32 pm

K3vb0t,

I am the guy who wrote the post about getting four defective Thinkpads T42 in a row. Even though I have been very frustrated and disappointed with the machines I have received so far, I WILL try again. The reason is that I know there are fully functional Thinkpads out there and when you get a hold of one, it is the best. The only thing I don't know is what the percentage of defective Thinkpads is. At this point, after my terrible experience, it would be easier to look elsewhere, but I really want to have a Thinkpad. Therefore I will keep trying!
I hope that you get it right the first time!
Let me know if you have any questions.
Best regards,
Jordi

k3vb0t · #8 Post by **k3vb0t** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 8:37 pm

nonny wrote:>And honestly, no offense intended, but I'd rather not have Bill hand pick me a good laptop... especially with IBM's reputation, this shouldn't be required in my opinion. :\
>

Why not?

I thought I pretty much made it clear with the second part of that statement. With IBM's reputation, consumers shouldn't have to go to another outlet to purchase a "gem" of a machine. Granted, defects are going to happen, but quality should be high enough that these are minimized.

In short, with the advent of the internet, there is no need for the middleman. Props to Bill for doing what he does, I'm not trying to undercut that or say it isn't a good thing, I just personally think I shouldn't need a personal shopper to go out and find a 'good one' for me.

Others: I understand this site attracts gripers and enthusiasts, all good things. I guessed it would be just like any other forum (cars, etc.) where people come with specific issues, while the rest of the world goes on happily. I'll hope the best, and hope you don't find a thread about me griping about problems... instead, one praising the quality.

Conmee: I think it was discussed in one of the other threads that you shouldn't be charged return shipping? At least that is how I read it. Could be wrong though.

#9 Post by **JaneL** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:13 pm

>In short, with the advent of the internet, there is no need for the middleman. Props to Bill for doing what he does, I'm not trying to undercut that or say it isn't a good thing, I just personally think I shouldn't need a personal shopper to go out and find a 'good one' for me.
>

Bill isn't a personal shopper. He is a licensed IBM VAR. Cherry-picking is just one of the services he offers. You can read more about his relationship with IBM at http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=2292

#10 Post by **K. Eng** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:14 pm

I thought the same as you when I bought my ThinkPad 18 months ago. I have 1 stuck pixel and 1 semi-stuck pixel on my machine

IBM buys their screens from the same manufacturers as every other OEM and have the same defect tolerances - so long as IBM doesn't cherry pick from the batches of displays they get (and I doubt they would eat the cost), there will be machines with bad displays.

The informal polls conducted here suggest that approximately 30% of panels ship with one or more defects.

Either have Bill cherry pick you a Thinkpad or take your chances. I wish it weren't that way, but its the unfortunate state of things.

k3vb0t wrote:I thought I pretty much made it clear with the second part of that statement. With IBM's reputation, consumers shouldn't have to go to another outlet to purchase a "gem" of a machine. Granted, defects are going to happen, but quality should be high enough that these are minimized.

k3vb0t · #11 Post by **k3vb0t** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:29 am

It is, in essence, IBM's stamp of approval that the subject retailer is fully licensed to sell their products, and any products purchased through tthe licensed retailer are treated the same as IBM direct purchases for purposes of product support and warranty.

Quoted from the other thread that nonny posted. Is this true? Above wasn't stated from Bill, but from a user.

And is it bill@thinkpads.com ?

Hope I haven't offended anyone, certainly you understand skepticism I have towards internet purchases not from something I've heard about before (amazon, etc.)...

Kenn · #12 Post by **Kenn** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:33 am

Here's my take on it. You're here at Thinkpads.com. This is an enthusiast site, self-selected of people who love the product more than your average buyer. As such, we also tend to criticize more harshly for smaller problems, even ones that most people would not notice.

Ever visit a car enthusiast site? Whether it's VW, BMW, or Honda, you'll doubtlessly be bombarded by a litany of calls to fix "chronic" and "flagrant" defects - easily-chipped paint, poor fit and finish, rattles in the dash, etc.

I'm not saying that the problems don't exist, just that they do tend to be exaggerated and exacerbated in places like this. I really don't think you'll find a significant difference in dead pixel rates between most major manfuacturers, and with IBM's 30 day no question refund policy, it's hard to lose.

#13 Post by **JaneL** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:38 am

That was James who wrote that, and he is one of the moderators here. Bill is the real deal - a genuine IBM value-added reseller (VAR) as legitimate as something like Comark, GE Cap or IBM sales itself. He's just a small VAR who speciallizes in providing a personal touch.

Yes, it's bill at thinkpads.com, but put the word "thinkpad" in the subject line so that the spam filters don't gobble it up. You'll find his phone number and hours available on his website at http://thinkpads.com and he is your host in these forums.

DuckRyder · #14 Post by **DuckRyder** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:34 pm

FWIW my now returned 2378FZU didn't have any dead pixels (and had a sony battery and Tiawan keyboard).

They took it back with "I just don't like it" for a reason. Can't argue with that.

If it is what you want order it up and don't be disuaded by the small possibility of bad pixels.

Riddil · #15 Post by **Riddil** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:18 pm

Eh, I can't imagine it's that big a problem, or there'd be a lot more noise about it. Besides, I heard that like 5-6 months a couple of the big LCD vendors were caught dumping screens with 1-2 dead pixels. So hopefully the problem is fixed now.

But either way, I like the advice that other ppl are giving. When you buy, go through a respected vendor. If for some reason you do get a bad LCD, just return it saying, "oops, this isn't the one I wanted", and exchange it for a slightly different model.

No harm done.

k3vb0t · #16 Post by **k3vb0t** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:26 pm

Riddil wrote:Eh, I can't imagine it's that big a problem, or there'd be a lot more noise about it. Besides, I heard that like 5-6 months a couple of the big LCD vendors were caught dumping screens with 1-2 dead pixels. So hopefully the problem is fixed now.

But either way, I like the advice that other ppl are giving. When you buy, go through a respected vendor. If for some reason you do get a bad LCD, just return it saying, "oops, this isn't the one I wanted", and exchange it for a slightly different model.

No harm done.

Plinkerton just received his replacement, and it has a stuck red pixel above center on the screen. Ridiculous...

But thanks for all the info. I've popped an e-mail off to Bill.

Hope everyone can forgive me if I came off as a snob or a jackass, just a bit skeptical about the internet. Tends to save me dollars and not getting ripped. Sorry I made the wrong assumption.

#17 Post by **JaneL** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:33 pm

>Hope everyone can forgive me if I came off as a snob or a jackass, just a bit skeptical about the internet. Tends to save me dollars and not getting ripped. Sorry I made the wrong assumption.
>

Nah, you just were... uninformed, so we informed you!

ElvinTampico · #18 Post by **ElvinTampico** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:17 am

Unless I'm mistaken, all of the dead pixel reports have been for the Flexview screens. If you're opting for the 14-inch screen, or a non-Flexview 15-inch, you probably don't have to worry much.

I've had to return four Flexview machines myself, and all of them had dead or stuck pixels.[/quote]

yellow_lenghan · #19 Post by **yellow_lenghan** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:28 am

k3vb0t wrote: IBM currently has a couple of specials running, this one has a T42 for $1,599 that is pretty decked out for that price. It's got everything I need/want and more. But it doesn't list a model number, and when you click "Add to cart" it gives an error message. I also think this offer is under the "Discover" card discounts, and my family doesn't have a Discover card. Only Visa and Mastercard. I've found the Visa discount page, but this isn't listed. I can't seem to find the Mastercard page. Would I be able to order this listed laptop, or would I have to go with something else?

Thanks in advance for any replies...

I think everybody forgot about the last part of the author post. I also saw the same IBM promotion, and as k3vb0t, I wasn't able to shop it or find information on it on the web beside this page with a spectacular rebate.

Anyone knows what is the deal with this model?

Thank you in advance.

Possible Purchase, Distrubed by Pixel Reports

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