Six months on, Vista users still griping

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sugo · #1 Post by **sugo** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:23 am

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19747743/

Anyone on the forum still debating which one to use for new thinkpads?

#2 Post by **jdhurst** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:49 am

One of the first quotes in the link you posted is:
"I can't live in Vista if the software that I use in my life for productivity does not work,"

My sentiments precisely and that is what I have said here (I have tried Vista). My guess right now is that key compliance issues will be sorted out by early 2008. ... JDH

pianowizard · #3 Post by **pianowizard** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:22 am

sugo wrote:Anyone on the forum still debating which one to use for new thinkpads?

Based on my experience with Vista RC2, I much prefer XP, but if I were buying a new laptop today, I would definitely get one with a Vista COA, burn a set of recovery discs, confirm that the discs work, and then "downgrade" to XP. This doesn't cost me any money because my institution has a site license for XP. I would put Vista back when I decide to sell this laptop. However, if I didn't have access to a free and legal copy of XP, I would instead get a laptop with an XP COA.

#4 Post by **tomh009** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:35 am

I'll be doing Vista when my X61 arrives. There may be some pain in the short term, but all my hardware has drivers, and all my key applications work -- and moving to XP and then Vista again in 6-12 months would be a hassle as well.

#5 Post by **RonS** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:58 am

I started by dual-booting XP and 64-bit Vista. Once I started using Vista, I haven't gone back. I'm very happy with it.

Yes, it does have a few problems. But so did XP, and every other OS I've used.

Pros: Vista boots faster, has better memory management (even though it uses more memory), the Sidebar is fantastic, it feels smooth and quick. Neutral: The eye candy is fun, but does nothing for productivity. Every device driver that I need is readily available.

Cons: The "All Programs" section of the Start Menu is hard to use in the default configutation, sometimes Explorer hangs and self re-starts when detecting new devices on startup. Firewire seems to be limited to 400 even if using an 800 interface. I can't get Fn+Spacebar to work correctly under Vista 64.

Big Cons: UAC (User Account Control). If you've used a fresh install of Vista, you know what this is. One you turn if off (Control Panel->User Accounts), life starts getting good. You'll be warned about it for a few days, but then ithe warnings stop.

pipspeak · #6 Post by **pipspeak** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:10 am

I'm certainly debating... on a new T61 should I stick with WinXP, which has been rock solid on my T43 or should I go to Vista 32 Business (same price), sink $100 into another 1GB of RAM and possibly waste a day trying to find drivers for some older hardware?

I'm really torn. On the one hand I like the idea of actually using a 21st Century OS but on the other hand I dread the thought of being a Microsoft guinea pig and having to install updates (with inevitable hassles) every six months to fix problems.

Can anyone give any feedback on how reliable and hassle free (or not) Vista Business actually is in terms of stability, software compatibility and hardware compatibility? Most of my hardware is fairly new so I'm sure there are drivers out there. It'll just be a case of finding them.

pianowizard · #7 Post by **pianowizard** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:50 am

pipspeak wrote:sink $100 into another 1GB of RAM

That's only if you get it from lenovo. On Frys.com and Newegg.com, a 1GB PC2-5300 stick costs $40 shipped or less.

michaelk · #8 Post by **michaelk** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:06 am

pipspeak wrote:...

Can anyone give any feedback on how reliable and hassle free (or not) Vista Business actually is in terms of stability, software compatibility and hardware compatibility? Most of my hardware is fairly new so I'm sure there are drivers out there. It'll just be a case of finding them.

Had my new T61 with vista ultimate for about 3 weeks now. To me it seems to be slow to boot and shut down but beyond that it's pretty well rock solid.

The only software I really have is office 2003- runs fine with the usual outlook screw-ups that I experienced under xp for the past 3-5 years- the positive is wehn outlook screws up the OS handles it gracefully and nothing else gets screwed up. (I suspect when my exchange provider goes to outlook 2007 much of that will be fixed- fingers crossed). AVG free antivirus- perfect. Quick-books- works relatively fine but for some reason it disconnects from the database on my network fairly often so I have to close and open the data file sometimes. Cute PDF writer- works flawless. Also use ultarvnc and it works fine. And the usual quicktime, adobe reader, etc that you need to browse the web.

As far as hardware- pretty much aside from printers it's all in the laptop so it works fine. At my office we have a big commercial ricoh color copier/ printer/scanner and a smaller B&W brother laser and it picked both up easily. At home I have a canon photo printer and a brother laster all in one and again both installed fine. it's been a few weeks but I think vista already had all the drivers accept the ricoh and that was a simple download away from the manufacturer's website.

One small hardware snafu is at my office we have some network attached storage drives that run on linux and use samba. The older version of samba and vista don't play nice for authenticating passwords- you can search the net and find the fix - in ultimate (and I assume business) there's an applet to adjust security settings to allow the older password scheme to work. In Vista Home you need to make a single registry change and it works fine too.

haven't experience any crashed or reboots or blue screens o' death so aside from the usual outlook crap everything works perfectly.

Hope that helps- feel free to ask for specifics if you want more.

michaelk · #9 Post by **michaelk** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:07 am

btw-

2gb sticks aren't crazy expensive- I bought one of those. I think it was like 150 but not positive.

pianowizard · #10 Post by **pianowizard** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:27 am

michaelk wrote:I think it was like 150 but not positive.

Under $100US now.

pipspeak · #11 Post by **pipspeak** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:00 pm

So it seems opinion is divided. I'd be happy to try Vista if I can be sure the first service pack is going to be a hassle-free experience.

What were people's experiences installing XP service packs? I've never installed one so am curious if it's a PITA or if it actually goes smoothly.

pianowizard · #12 Post by **pianowizard** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:08 pm

pipspeak wrote:What were people's experiences installing XP service packs?

It took one to two hours through high-speed internet but other than that, it's pretty straightforward. I also installed SP2 through dialup once and that was a PITA!

#13 Post by **tomh009** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:09 pm

Service pack installs are generally pretty uneventful.

BruisedQuasar · #14 Post by **BruisedQuasar** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:21 pm

I warned as many people as I could reach to wait a year or two to get Wind XP because what MS was telling consumers was untrue. Their productivity software could not work in XP unless they are Win 2000 as XP is the NT O/S, as is XP. All other Windows are MS-DOS.

I warned people to totally forget about Win Vista as it is a resource monster, unnecessary, unless Microsoft cartel members force Vista use with compiling drivers for new hardware only for Vista, which I think is a few years into the future.

I also warned people that MS is lying once again in claiming existing productivity software should work with Vista. This is grounds for a class action suit against Microsoft but I see no signs of one evolving.

I suggest buyers consider buying from makers like Dell who will load Unbuntu Feisty Fawn Linux on new computers or makers who will load XP Pro instead of Vista.

Finally, I advised people to look for great deals on powerhouse new Windows XP Pro systems. I got six months ago what was early last year's top line dual core gaming system (Dell XPS 400) for a mere $340 (and free S/H) direct from Dell Outlet loaded with XP Pro SP2 Media Center. The clearance model I got came with two top of the line graphics-video cards.

If a system was tops last year, 12 months doesn't make it no good. Besides, the XPS 410 comes with Vista & headaches for what? 4-5 times what I paid for XPS 400?

--Bruised

Are You Part of the Problem, or Victim of the Solution?

arni · #15 Post by **arni** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:02 pm

IMO it all depends on the apps you want to run on your machine.

As far as i can tell, the initial problems with vista seem to be gone now as more and more drivers and applications compatible with vista are out.

I'm using both XP and vista on a daily basis and i must agree that i'm missing something when on xp. The most problems arise only with applications not compatible with the new os. It's wise to check if your app is vista complient. Otherwise you will run into all the issues other did.

And lenovo is doing a good job at releasing drivers frequently and making infos available how to install, maintain and operate vista at it's best.

michaelk · #16 Post by **michaelk** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:51 pm

I did forget one pretty big mess up.

Palm sucks and still doesn't have the correct drivers and software to connect a palm OS treo to vista. My T61 has bluetooth so I can use wireless DUN over bluetooth, and I use exchange/goodlink on the treo so my contacts/calendar/todo's/memo's basically sync over the air. But without those 2 things a palm OS pda or smartphone is pretty well crippled on vista.

Supposedly there is a beta coming out of the Palm software in august.

I firmly blame Palm for the holdup but you have to be aware there are apparently some 3rd party company's that are like a year behind in vista support.

So as arni said above- check to make sure the app's you want will work.

#17 Post by **Kyocera** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:50 pm

I also warned people that MS is lying once again in claiming existing productivity software should work with Vista. This is grounds for a class action suit against Microsoft but I see no signs of one evolving.

How do you define productivity software? It is a fact that third party vendors are way behind in their drivers and Vista, Kyocera print product software is a good example we are playing catch up. If you mean Word, Excel, PP, etc, then I don't see what the problem is because I'm running word/excel/pp 2000 on Vista business and ultimate and one machine running 2003 office and it works fine. It's not like no one knew Vista was coming, it was delayed and delayed and delayed, now they're looking for SP1 to be released soon and vendors are still behind the power curve.

#18 Post by **GomJabbar** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:54 pm

I am curious if any ThinkPad users are using Standby (Fn + F4) and display off (Fn + F3) without any issues in Vista. I know I had problems with those things on my T42 with RC1.

#19 Post by **ryengineer** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:19 pm

GomJabbar wrote:I am curious if any ThinkPad users are using Standby (Fn + F4) and display off (Fn + F3) without any issues in Vista. I know I had problems with those things on my T42 with RC1.

No problem here.

arni · #20 Post by **arni** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:42 am

In fact Fn+F4 as well as Fn+F12 work way better than in XP.

In XP sometimes due to driver issues or software the system actually didn't get into standby or hibernate and after travelling i found my system running in my bag.

This has never happened again since using vista. In addition when using vista sleep mode the computer is up and running in under 3-4 seconds.

SkiBunny · #21 Post by **SkiBunny** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:28 am

I think most companies of major significance (i.e., Fortune 500) aren't adopting Vista at all this year. I know some forbid a Vista-loaded notebook from even being brought through the door. Almost like it had t.b. or something, lol.
Down in texas we had signs proclaiming, "Please check your guns and any vista notebooks at reception. Thank you."

arni · #22 Post by **arni** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:52 am

But that's the fact in every business. Most companies have policies about driving their IT and it was always the case that new OSes wouldn't be deployed prior excessive testing against the companies core applications. This takes time. Another reason companies are holding back would be that they are waiting for fiscal year 2008 when new stuff is beeing purchased as new computers would be.

But in the long term it will be the same as with every windows. Sooner or later vista will be running on most new computers. And if all application vendors will catch up there will be nothing against deploying vista company wide. But time will tell.

bigtiger · #23 Post by **bigtiger** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:23 am

Every OS has its strength and weakness. I tried Vista only once on of my laptops. I didinot like it. From various review articles, I guess I will hold my transition until next year.

One big reason I do not like to upgrade Windows is that every new version of MS will make many old machines totally unusable. Vista is the worst.

Mac has been very good on this. Every new version of Mac OS only makes old machines run better.

Six months on, Vista users still griping

Six months on, Vista users still griping

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