Thinkpad with 13.3 LCD, Optical Drive and Great Graphics

[hutty2000]

I hope that the Thinkpad introduces a new series of laptop with 13.3 LCD and Great Graphics. If it also comes with a build-in optical drive without significantly add weight and thickness, that would be a plus.
I think this should be a real balance between portability and performance.
What do you think?

[pianowizard]

Was this poll inspired by the Dell XPS m1330? I think a 4.0-lb Thinkpad with 13.3" 1440x900 (127.7 DPI) and optical drive would be welcome by many members of this forum, and one with 1920x1200 would be even better for resolution addicts like me. The DPI would be 170.2, close to that for 15.0" 2048x1536 (170.7 DPI).

13.3" 1400x1050 or 1600x1200 isn't a bad idea either.

[sugo]

Sony has the 13.3" 4-4.2 lbs S series for years. I would love a 13.3" widescreen thinkpad with choice of integrated or discrete GPU.

[pianowizard]

Sony has the 13.3" 4-4.2 lbs S series for years.

IBM had the 4:3 13.3" in the 570 and 600 series.

[furrycute]

I think Lenovo should offer an x model with 13" standard aspect ratio matte screen, LED backlight, discrete graphics, and SSD drive, optional DVD drive. People hardly use optical drives anymore, especially not on the go.

[pianowizard]

People hardly use optical drives anymore, especially not on the go.

I actually believe that more people use optical drives on the go than a decade ago, to watch DVDs. Also, many people don't know how to install an operating system without an internal optical drive.

[furrycute]

You install an OS only ONCE, most likely while your laptop is plugged in, where you have access to an optional external DVD drive.

As to watching movies on the go, I like to keep movies on hard drives. Compress them to mpeg4, only takes up 1/5 as much hard drive space. This way you can keep 30 movies on your hard drive, instead of having to lug around 30 DVD disks.

[pianowizard]

furrycute, I wasn't saying internal optical drives are necessary for installing an OS or for watching DVDs. I was simply saying that many people (i.e. those that aren't tech savvy enough) need the optical drives for those two purposes. I bet most of the general popularion don't even know how to get into the BIOS to get a laptop to boot from an external USB drive. Just because you and I and most members on this forum don't need internal optical drives doesn't mean "People hardly use optical drives anymore".

[gator]

Dell is back in the laptop game with the release of the newer revamped inspiron 1520 series and the m1330. A thinkpad with 13.3" 4:3 screen and discrete graphics with a 1400*1050 and optical (because there will be enough space for it) should be amazing.

[tomh009]

But most people who are not tech-savvy will never actually install a new OS -- they will run whatever the laptop came with.

And to handle that, all that's required is effective BIOS support for booting off an external USB device (whether a CD-ROM, ISB memory key or something else). Just like the usual desktop BIOS behaviour when a bootable CD is found.

Code: Select all

Bootable USB device(s) found:
    1. MultiWriter DVD-RW 
    2. Sandisk Cruzer 2 GB
Press F1 to boot from one of these devices; otherwise standard bootup will resume in 10 seconds.

[pianowizard]

But most people who are not tech-savvy will never actually install a new OS -- they will run whatever the laptop came with.

I was referring to people who "aren't tech savvy enough", not those who know absolutely nothing about computers. Many people who know a little bit about computers may think that all pre-Vista versions of Windows are obsolete and try to upgrade to Vista.

And to handle that, all that's required is effective BIOS support for booting off an external USB device

I was actually talking about going into the BIOS to get the machine to boot from USB before the HDD. If it's the other way around, the machine will boot from the HDD and ignores the bootable USB drive.

[tomh009]

And to handle that, all that's required is effective BIOS support for booting off an external USB device

I was actually talking about going into the BIOS to get the machine to boot from USB before the HDD. If it's the other way around, the machine will boot from the HDD and ignores the bootable USB drive.

That's the way the BIOS works today. But I am suggesting it does not need to -- it can simply autodetect bootable USB devices and offer them as choices to the user at boot time. This solves the infrequent OS installation issue purely in software without the need for an internal optical drive -- thus without any cost in terms of monetary cost, weight or structural rigidity.

[carbon_unit]

Of course there is always F12 to get a choice of bootable drives. No BIOS changes required.

[tomh009]

That's right. But PW's point was that many users either don't know about F12 or find the BIOS screens too confusing. Proactive BIOS support for offering the user the choice of another boot drive would make life easier for users trying to install an OS from a USB device (or even from an UltraBay/UltraBase device).

[hutty2000]

Was this poll inspired by the Dell XPS m1330? I think a 4.0-lb Thinkpad with 13.3" 1440x900 (127.7 DPI) and optical drive would be welcome by many members of this forum, and one with 1920x1200 would be even better for resolution addicts like me. The DPI would be 170.2, close to that for 15.0" 2048x1536 (170.7 DPI).

13.3" 1400x1050 or 1600x1200 isn't a bad idea either.

Actually I was not inspired by any other laptops. I am using X40 for around 2 years. It is small, light, and with long battery life. However, when I was dong projects using excel sheets, I'd like to have a wider angle. However, the 14 or 15 wide screen one seems too big and heavy.
What's more, during to the heat limitations the 12" LCD X series always use integrated graphics. Even though the older model X31 and X32 did use discrete one, it was not powerful.
I think with the 13.3"LCD, in addition to the added angle relative to the current ultraportalbe X60, it is also possible to have powerful graphics and still rans cool.
Since the current 12" model weights 1.4kg and 14" model weight 2.3Kg, it is possible to have a 13.3" one, which weights under 1.8kg with build-in DVD RW or weights under 1.6 kg without. Both of options are acceptable for me.

[furrycute]

In this day and age, do you even need a DVD drive built into your laptop? That's what the ultrabase, or a USB DVD drive is for.

Even though my T60p has a built in DVD drive, I took it out and put in a second hard drive instead. OS and programs on the primary hard drive. Data and media files on the ultrabay hard drive. I think I only used the DVD drive only once since I got my T60p, to burn a set of recovery disks.

[pianowizard]

In this day and age, do you even need a DVD drive built into your laptop? That's what the ultrabase, or a USB DVD drive is for.

Look at the poll results: 70% wanted to have an internal DVD drive. Do these people need a built-in DVD drive? Probably not. But they do want to have one.

BTW, if designed properly, an optical drive doesn't add that much weight to a laptop. Look at the 2.4-lb Toshiba Portege R500, or the 2.17-lb Sony Vaio G1.

[tomh009]

I didn't even vote (and, PW, you know I would have voted for no optical) since there weren't many choices available.

[pianowizard]

I didn't even vote (and, PW, you know I would have voted for no optical)

Of course, because so far all Thinkpad optical drives add at least 0.4 lbs to the laptop's weight. But if Lenovo can learn from Sony, Toshiba and Panasonic and make a very light optical drive for this hypothetical 13.3" Thinkpad, then you might change your mind!

[tomh009]

I am always open to being convinced. But even 0.2 lbs of weight vs a keyboard-flip-up-optical drive ... I suspect I know what I would choose. The one nice thing about the UltraBay approach is that you can actually put a spacer in for travel if you don't need the optical drive.

[pianowizard]

But even 0.2 lbs of weight vs a keyboard-flip-up-optical drive ...

Hmm, I had no idea you'd be picky about 0.2 lbs of weight. After all, your main laptop has been the X31, one of the heaviest X series ever made, and you also ordered an X61 instead of an X61s.

[furrycute]

The poll results in this thread are hardly representative of what consumers want in general. The sample size is way too small.

[pianowizard]

The poll results in this thread are hardly representative of what consumers want in general. The sample size is way too small.

Yep, most of the participants of this poll know far more about computers than the average consumer. In the general population, the percentage of people wanting a built-in optical drive would be much much higher. This is something I've learned through selling about 40 laptops on Craigslist.

[furrycute]

Hmm, I had no idea you'd be picky about 0.2 lbs of weight.

0.2 lbs shaved off is 0.2 lbs of less dead weight one has to carry. Plus, DVD drive is hardly a necessity for people on the go. Otherwise Ipods would never have replaced Sony CD walkmans.

[tomh009]

Hmm, I had no idea you'd be picky about 0.2 lbs of weight. After all, your main laptop has been the X31, one of the heaviest X series ever made, and you also ordered an X61 instead of an X61s.

It's all a compromise, always. The X31 is somewhat lighter than my old Latitude C400. I considered the X40 at the time, but the 1.8" disk ruled that out.

Now, this time around? I really would have ordered an X61s with an UltraLight LCD, if Lenovo Canada only had one available. But since they didn't, and the few X61s models they carry were overpriced compared to their X61 brethren, I decided to go with X61 -- it does have the performance advantage, and even with the 8-cell it's still quite a bit lighter than the X31. And I'll be picking up an enhanced 4-cell battery for it for travel ...

So, all that said, back to the compromise thing. X61s with UltraLight would be lovely and light (if it were available), but given equal batteries, still not a massive (no pun intended) difference from X61. And you do pay more, and get somewhat less performance.

On the other hand, I could have bought an X61 tablet, which has the also-lovely SXGA+ display option (thought availability on that is poor everywhere right now, I think). You gain tablet functionality (not much benefit for me) but then you are again paying more, and carrying more weight around.

And that optical drive ... I will not refuse a notebook with an optical drive (though it has been a long time since my last one -- a Tecra 500CDT!) it's again a question of pros and cons, and to me personally the optical drive doesn't really bring any benefits.

[furrycute]

This is something I've learned through selling about 40 laptops on Craigslist.

An n of 40 is hardly representative of the general public.

[pianowizard]

furrycute, on the surface you are disagreeing with me, but deep down, you know I am right.

[furrycute]

furrycute, on the surface you are disagreeing with me, but deep down, you know I am right.

Not only are you a pianowizard, now you are also a mindwizard?

[pianowizard]

Not only are you a pianowizard, now you are also a mindwizard?

Because what I'm saying is just common sense, and I believe you have at least as much common sense as I do. Go to any laptop manufacturer's web site (Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc.) and count the number of models with internal optical drive vs. those without one. There are many more of the former, which reflects how much more demand there is for laptops with an internal optical drive.

Again, we are not talking about whether an internal optical drive is necessary or whether you want to have one -- we've concluded that it's "no" for both. We are discussing whether the claim that "People hardly use optical drives anymore" is valid, and it's obvious to me that it's not.

[qviri]

I wouldn't buy such a laptop, but I don't really care if it gets introduced as long as it doesn't precipitate the discontinuation or decreased development of type of laptops I am interested in.*


* as small as reasonably possible, lightweight, no frills, good connectivity.