Puzzled T61p or X61s? (RonS & other gurus please visit)

[ComputerMinder]

Hey there.

OK, so I wated the last week not doing anything besides researching what would be my best next notebook.

REQUIREMENTS
- Price does not matter. It's my only work tool!
- I need Vista Business or Ultimate.
- I don't need any fancy 3D or gaming abilities. But I do want 100% smooth Vista Aero experience
- Even though not doing much of graphics I am dealing with about 4Gb PST file in outlook which I am doing searches on as well as running many windows in the background.
- Multiple monitors real *huge* plus:
Absolute Minimum: 1 External 1920x1200 display + Thinkpad internal LCD
Preference : 2 External 1680x1050 displays + Thinkpad internal LCD
Best: 3 External 1680x1050 dislpays (no need in that case for Thinkpad internal display but would be nice if works)

I narrowed to two options:

T61p (to be purchased in the UK) NH36XUK
Highlights:
- 15.4" 1920x1200WUXGA TFT (WOW isn't it too small ??? someone can comment? )
- nVIDIA Quadro FX 570M (256Mb)
- 2.2GHz
- 4Gb RAM, Intel Turbo Memory, 7200rpm etc..
Downsite to the T61p, I guess with this killer graphics card aimed at CAD pros, i would drain even an 9 cell battery in no time, it would also weight a ton, plus if i want to put an extra card in the advanced dock i am not sure i would be able to fit in another nVidia Quadro FX 570M card in there, it would draw too much power from the Advanced Dock and I've heard if I'm using Vista I need both cards to be the same so Emmm.

X61s
Highlights:
- 12.1" (suits fine to me when outside office)
- 1.6GHz Low voltage (will do fine for my needs)
- Also 4GB Ram, Intel Turbo Memory, 7200rpm etc..

Now my dillema

In terms of portability I really like the X61s that I can take anywhere. I think it would also work very fast with my apps running Vista.

However while I am mostly in the office, I need productivity and I found out on my desktop computer (that I am about to ditch) that there is nothing more productive than having a multi display. Especially that I need to work with outlook with many windows open as well as other office apps simultatnously.

The bummer is that I think the only way to achieve what I want in terms of multi screen setup (see begining of this post) is to use the T61 or (p) and having the advanced dock, connecting 1 display as DVI and another screen as VGA (I see the advanced dock as 2 ports) then I can use the computer's own display as well. So I get easily to 3 displays without even adding a PCI card. And if I understand correctly, I could easily go to 5 displays with the advanced dock extra pci-e card or even more. though 3 or 4 big displays is enough.

So that makes the sweet little X61s out of the question I know there are some workarounds like using the Matrox solution but I don't like that solution and I also think the Matrox solution won't work with Ultamon which I think is a must have with multiple monitors. and beside will not drive 2 big monitors i think with the X61s.

Am I right here or am I wrong? Can anyone help me decide here? Maybe I missed something, maybe I can easily connect two real big displays to the X61s without performance problems plus use the computer's own display and that would do. Though the dream of many displays with the T61p really seems nice.

Thanks for any recommendation and help from you guys. This forum rocks. I just "wasted" 5 hours reading it and it's 4:00am local time ouch!

I know I covered way too many topics here, but any advice is appreciated.

Thanks again.

[XIII]

I don't need any fancy 3D or gaming abilities. But I do want 100% smooth Vista Aero experience

You should already know your answer after bringing that up. The T61 14.1" will fit your need just fine.
T61p is overkill.

[tomh009]

And X series is out of the question if you want to drive more than one external monitor ...

[pianowizard]

Best: 3 External 1680x1050 dislpays (no need in that case for Thinkpad internal display but would be nice if works)

Consider getting three 1600x1200 20" displays instead. These 4:3 displays would give you more pixels, and take up less room on your desk.

[Kel Ghu]

if the graphic card has to handle 3 external display + internal, all that with aero, take the T61p! Aero needs power and 3x 1680x1050 is going to need an excellent 3D fill rate from the graphic card. Take the T61p especially if money is not an issue.

Sounds like you work with stock markets

[ComputerMinder]

Thanks so far guy.

Kel Ghu Thanks for the tip. No stock marget though.. lol

pianowizard Good advice, never though about it that way, yeah the 1680x1050 does take too much space on desk.

Looking for more input...

[GarryF]

Choices choices anyways I'm no guru but here's my new T61P with desktop extended onto a Dell 2405FPW.
http://oregon.smugmug.com/photos/176116726-S.jpg

I quite like the setup, I use email etc on the laptop and my main application on the dell.

Also keep in mind the advanced dock is HUGE, it's also the wrong shape for me resulting in the laptop being 4" away from the wall where the old one was almost touching,
http://oregon.smugmug.com/photos/176116265-S.jpg

You could even turn three 1920x1200 90 deg into portrait mode and have even more pixels than the 1600x1200 setup

[ComputerMinder]

thanks for the pics of the setup. i guess you don't need an advanced dock for that setup, only if you want want more monitors. Tell me. how are you getting long with with huge rez of the T61p ? I never seen in, I have to order the computer without seeing that, but it's hard to imagine how they squeezed that 1920x1200 rez into 15.4". Can you actually work with that thing?

[ComputerMinder]

Hey. Anywone tried that?

http://www.magma.com/products/pciexpres ... index.html

If what they say is true, than maybe I can do just fine even with the X61s by simply using that high end PCI Express card. Can I put that card into the X61s PCI Express card slot and then using an extral graphics card (which has like 2 DVI outs) I can achieve 2 external monitors, plus the interal of the notebook, plus another external from the notebook own's VGA out. So I can easily get to 4 total screens?

The thing is, if I can achieve that thing with just the X61s, I personally have no need in the T61p. My need for that beast was only due to the multiple monitors setup that I want to get. Do you think I can get good results using that card ?? Now I am lost. I was pretty set on the T61 but now i feel I can achieve the same setup with the X61s plus have the portability I am looking for.

Anyone?

[tomh009]

The X61 ExpressCard slot is really an adapter that passes through the built-in CardBus slot. As such, I believe it supports only ExpressCard USB-based devices, not PCI-based devices.

[RonS]

Modern T series Thinkpads, without upgrades, can use a maximum of two displays - any combination of DVI, VGA and internal. If you use the dock's DVI + VGA, the internal display will be dark.

The only way to get to three displays is to somehow add another adapter, via USB, PCMCIA, MaxiVista, dualhead2go, etc. But the most popular (and powerful) way is to add a video card in the Advanced Dock. If you want Vista with Aero, you options are very narrow.

Since you'll be running Vista, you should get a video card for the dock that uses the exact same driver as that is in your Thinkpad. If you get the T61p, that will be the NVidia FX 570. I don't know of a FX 570 video card, but you may get away with an FX 560 or any other FX card, since they use a unified architecture. I don't know of anyone who's tried it with the T61p and posted back on this forum. It's also possible to use a mismatched video card in the dock and lose Aero capabilities, but that can be a rough road to travel.

I currently use a T60p as my main system, which as the v5200 graphics chip. I have a v5200 video card in the Advanced Dock, so I can drive four external monitors (3 DVI, 1 VGA) under Vista with Aero. Side note: My all-time record for the T60p is 15 external monitors (using various methods mentioned above), and even more with the T42p/XP.

I don't know much about X series except that is has fewer video output options than the T6x series.

Here is the key question:

Has anyone found a PCI-Express video card that fits in the Advanced Dock and runs with Vista on the T61p (FX 570)?

[whizkid]

It's not cheap, but there appears to be a CardBus card with a 32MB video chip. It lets you connect one DVI monitor and one VGA monitor, and you can use the internal display and external display of the laptop. So it looks like it could work on a X6*.

http://www.smalldog.com/product/12652205

$245.99
And one in stock at the moment. I wonder if they'll get any more.

Prices vary at other stores, and you can find reviews. Just Google VTBook.

There are also some USB to VGA adapters. Very interesting.

[tomh009]

The VTBook, too, has its limitations: you can run two monitors from it, but they will do a maximum of 1280x1024 (or 1024x768 if you need 32-bit colour). No matter how you slice it, the X series is not optimal for running multiple external monitors.

[RonS]

Keep in mind that the original post set as a requirement Windows Vista with Aero across the extended screens. VTBook, or anything else like it, won't cut it.

The only solutions I see are 1) Put a compatible video card in the dock, or 2) Use a Matrox dualhead2go (or one of its variants). Nothing else will work with Vista Aero.

[ComputerMinder]

Keep in mind that the original post set as a requirement Windows Vista with Aero across the extended screens. VTBook, or anything else like it, won't cut it.

The only solutions I see are 1) Put a compatible video card in the dock, or 2) Use a Matrox dualhead2go (or one of its variants). Nothing else will work with Vista Aero.

Thanks Ron, 2 questions:

1. If anyone here has the T61p which comes with nVIDIA Quadro FX 570M (256Mb) and a docking station with compatible card in the advanced dock and run mutiple screens and would support Vista Aero please let me know. As far as I think this card won't fit into the Advanced Dock and is too powerful to be run in the advanced dock, and would draw too much power.

There is no point in me getting the T61p and then not finding a good graphics card that would work in harmony with the T61p internal one and as far as I understand it, you need to have the same card X 2 So I am lost a bit.

2. The X61s and even the T61p specifies on their specs the following:
Max resolution (with max video RAM): 2048x1536 16777216 colors

First I fail to understand how come the X61s and T61p can only achieve that rez. Second, How can I use the Matrox Triple2Go solution if that is the limit? Seems like it would not drive more than just barely 2 monitors at 1024xX rez. which is not all that great. So how come the Triple2go or even the dual2go be a viable solution if even driven with 2 monitors. 1024 horizotal rez per monitor is very low. My Samsung has 1680.

[dr_st]

2048x1536 - that's per monitor

[RonS]

You're right. With the DualHead2Go, you won't get to your desired resolution. According to NVidia (I just checked), the max analog resolution of the FX 570m is just 2048x1536 as you stated. That means driving 15" LCD monitors at native resolution, or larger monitors at non-native (scaled) resolution. Which, of course, is far from desirable.

If you can't find a compatible card for the Advanced Dock, you may consider getting a T60p (which has a compatible card for the dock), running Vista without Aero on your T61p, or running XP on your T61p.

[jcvjcvjcvjcv]

Analog it's 2048x1536, like most non-lowbudget cards have.

Digital (DVI) it's max. 1920x1200 (anyway; max 24") if it's Singe-Link.

If the 570 has Dual-Link DVI, why not just get two Dell 3007WFP-HC screens?

Can't you not just use a desktop while using the documents from your laptop? Some kind of terminal? These laptops have GBit LAN.

[Eco]

15.4" 1920x1200WUXGA TFT (WOW isn't it too small ??? someone can comment? )

I've been using it for 3 years on a Dell now and I'm pretty satisfied with it. My main reason for choosing it was that you get a decent 1200 pixel height despite the widescreen ratio. Height is nearly always the bottleneck when using applications.

The additional width comes in handy when using Eclipse (software development tool), using lots of (terminal) windows, accessing remote/virtual desktops, editing photos etc. It's convenient that the resolution matches my 24" display at home so the layout of things can remain unchanged.

A lot of people that see my display comment that things are too tiny for them. I think you'd have use the display for at least half an hour or so to judge that. Fonts can be scaled of course and most icons are fine when displayed at a smaller size (they 'get sharper'). I happen to run Linux on it, but I'm sure these things will be the same with Vista.

To be honest I would be equally happy with a 1600x1200 4:3 display, which would have the benefit of a larger physical height. As the T61p happened to be released with WUXGA first, I stuck to that. I've ordered one and am eagerly awaiting its arrival. My only concern is that the brightness of the display could be poor compared to the excellent display of the Dell.

[wearetheborg]

Eco I'm using a dell precision M90 with 17" WUXGA in linux. The screen absolutely ROCKS !!

[RonS]

ComputerMinder,

The exact combination of T61p, 2 or 3 hi-res external displays, and Vista with Aero is difficult if not impossible at this time.

I don't think that the Matrox 2Go products are exactly what you're looking for, and neither is the ExpressCard solution.

It seems like it's not a good time for you to buy a T61, given what you want to do with it. I think you're better off with a T60p, especially if you can find one with a v5200 chip rather than the v5250.

I am reliably using a T60p with v5200 to display three additional displays (two can be 30" if I want) when a v5200 card is put in the Advanced Dock. It's rock solid under both XP and Vista with Aero.

If kengetz comes back and reports that the FX570 board works with the T61p in Vista/Aero, then you're set. Until a video board comes out with a chipset that's "Vista compatible" with any of of the T61 models, you're going to be at a dead end with the T61/p.