Want the stripes back? Go vote!

[lovebeta]

Lenovo's David Hill is currently running a vote on his blog about the red/blue stripes on the mouse buttons. If this is a matter that concerns you, please cast your vote!

Link: http://lenovoblogs.com/designmatters/?p=166

[erik]

hopefully our suggestions are taken to heart.

[exlax]

what did the stripes look like?

[ryengineer]

what did the stripes look like?

Like this.

[SHoTTa35]

definitely gotta have stripes. I think the inside of the system just looks so boring without it. The single red trackpoint is lonely there. Someone give him some friends!

[jdhurst]

Oddly enough, for a person like me who prefers a conservative business ThinkPad, I really do like the red racing stripes. I saw a person on the train the other day with a newish "X" and no stripes. Very dull and optically bad because nothing guides your eyes. ... JDH

[Volker]

I noticed the lack of stripes on my T61, but then I keep my eyes on the screen while working. So I couldn't care less about the stripes.

However, recently someone asked me why there are mouse buttons below AND above the touchpad I think the color link red stripes <-> red trackpoint would have made it immediately clear to novices.

[pipspeak]

I agree... the stripes and trackpoint are inextribaly linked. Gotta keep the whole red scheme or lose it all and make the trackpoint black. The current plan seems half baked.

In fact, the entire thinkpad design seems half baked these days. Is it all black of multi-colored? Is it rounded or square? Is it a business machine or consumer? Is it cheap or expensive? Lenovo has created an identity crisis for the thinkpad in so many different ways.

[snife]

Grrr they better not bring these back - i want a featureless (design wise) black box and this was a step in the right direction - i dont have all the functional arguments - if your looking at your mouse keys when your pressing them then your not using them right!

[jlachesk]

[quote="pipspeak"]...make the trackpoint black.[quote]

Wow, this just brought to mind a whole slew of aesthetic possibilities. Does anyone know of any replacement caps in colors other than red? I think a black trackpoint or a blue (the Fn/Enter key blue) would be interesting. It's a dismissal of legacy Thinkpad looks, but the T6x are in general anyways.

[kelchm]

I swear I'm beginning to think you guys want to have the ugliest laptop possible.

The current style/look of the T6x is acceptable to me, but only just. I recommended a T61 to a few of my friends as a laptop for school, and neither of them could get past the looks. One of them said something to the effect of "Thats a new laptop? That looks ancient."

If I could have gotten another laptop of the same specs as the T61p, at the same price, I probably would have. Lenovo is doing the right thing by slowly changing the outdated thinkpad design.

[exlax]

ok, after seeing those stripes, i say def no.

[Volker]

I recommended a T61 to a few of my friends as a laptop for school, and neither of them could get past the looks. One of them said something to the effect of "Thats a new laptop? That looks ancient."

Glad to hear that your friends have their priorities straight. Too bad one can't buy good taste... Form follows function

[Pocket Aces]

You could always paint your own stripes.

[SHoTTa35]

ok, after seeing those stripes, i say def no.

If you were used to the Thinkpads of the past you'd understand. The red slashes are like a staple of Thinkpad ness. If you haven't noticed, Thinkpads aren't uber powered systems with RAID-0 drives and the highest CPU and biggest screens. There are a few lil things that set them apart and for some reason, those lil red lines just make a big deal to the otherwise dull (simple) interface. Most people don't like thinkpads because they don't come in bright blues and red and lime greens (think Dells) They come in standard issue black and for everyone that loves a Thinkpad if you ask them they'll tell you simplicity in design and the construction is why we keep coming back to them. Why else would we pay $2000+ for machines that you can get for the same specs you can get from Dell at $799 or even lower.

[pipspeak]

Wow, this just brought to mind a whole slew of aesthetic possibilities.

How about a mood-sensing trackpoint nub? Changes color based on how annoyed you are with Windows.

[carbon_unit]

Then I guess mine would be black all the time....................Oh Look, It's working!!!

[jcvjcvjcvjcv]

No, I like it better without stripes. I could feel it too much that the stripe was another part of the button, it wasn't one-piece with the rest of the button, it was like it was glued on it (imo). That's wat I can say from a T22.

Are we also gonna start a vote to get the 4:3 getting into reallife models instead of ghost-products?

[steveg47]

hopefully our suggestions are taken to heart.

Since Lenovo took over have any of our suggestions been taken to heart?? I don't mean trivialities like this insignificant red stripe but real suggestions related to quality and functionality?

[kelchm]

I recommended a T61 to a few of my friends as a laptop for school, and neither of them could get past the looks. One of them said something to the effect of "Thats a new laptop? That looks ancient."

Glad to hear that your friends have their priorities straight. Too bad one can't buy good taste... Form follows function

Form follows function, yes. But, there is simply no reason the thinkpads couldn't look more stylish without compromising function. And really, from a consumers point of view who knows very little about computers in general, a thinkpad is going to look rather well, old. The overall appearance of the thinkpads has changed very little over the years.

Honestly what difference in function can you find between a T61 and the new HP laptops?
http://www.itechnews.net/wp-content/upl ... ook-PC.jpg
http://www.notebookreview.com/assets/22772.jpg

I think even a die hard TP fan could admit that the above HP is better looking than the T61. Minimalistic, clean lines and very business like. Personly I think the melding of this sort of design with some of the exclusive features of the new thinkpads would be nearing perfection.

[snife]

I agree that the T61 14" widescreen is much more ugly than it needs to be - i have no idea why they think its important I know where the wireless antennas are and those notches catch the light and can be distracting.

Although I don't think the TrackPoint stripes would cause it to look better. If you want clean looks then all the small design touches need to go, trackpoint stripes, smaller and even curves around the screen, centered indicator bar, no wireless ridges, black (but still metal) hinges and removing the touchpad

In a picture the HP does look better but I would doubt it would 'feel' better in person.

However, good design is about more than looks, check out the hinges on the HP and think about how they will function in a couple of years, check out the fact that the screen is only protected by a couple of rubber stoppers so will be more likely to crack, the obscurely laid out keyboard and above all, my biggest annoyance of non-ThinkPads, the unpressable 'Pointing Stick' buttons.

[erik]

hopefully our suggestions are taken to heart.

Since Lenovo took over have any of our suggestions been taken to heart?? I don't mean trivialities like this insignificant red stripe but real suggestions related to quality and functionality?

if you read my post within that thread, you'll notice that one of my biggest complaints with the models of late is the windows key.   i could care very little if they bring back the keyboard styling just as long as they delete that stupid windows key.   all of my suggestions were in regards to quality and functionality -- at least to me.

[snife]

erik - they simply cannot do that, you need the windows key to get the windows sticker (and the MS compliance that brings) and while, I despise any stickers, a lot of people do look for them (just look how much people want 'centrino' wireless even though its rubbish), the only option would be to have another keyboard for non-windows machines but the volume would be so low it would not be economically viable.

[jdhurst]

erik - they simply cannot do that, you need the windows key to get the windows sticker (and the MS compliance that brings)<snip>

Is that statement true? And if so, is it new? I have had and implemented more ThinkPads than I can count. None of them had ever had Windows keys.

And the Netvista I have now is the *first* IBM machine ever to have a Windows key (going back to 1981, before windows )

BTW, I have never, ever used a Windows key. And now, I doubt that I ever will. ... JDH

[steveg47]

Since Lenovo took over have any of our suggestions been taken to heart?? I don't mean trivialities like this insignificant red stripe but real suggestions related to quality and functionality?

if you read my post within that thread, you'll notice that one of my biggest complaints with the models of late is the windows key.   i could care very little if they bring back the keyboard styling just as long as they delete that stupid windows key.   all of my suggestions were in regards to quality and functionality -- at least to me.

erik, you completely missed my point, probably my fault for not being clearer. I never intended my response as a criticism of your suggestions. I question whether Lenovo has ever responded to any of our suggestions on any real issues. IMO, reponding with an opinion on something as silly as red stripes on the keyboard trivializes the valuable input members of this forum can make and have made and I find it somewhat insulting.
But then again perhaps I'm being to judgemental. Tme will tell.

[rukiri]

I don't understand all this windows key hate. I use the windows key, I use the left alt and ctrl buttons too so I don't want to re-map any of them. I realize and agree that the inclusion of the windows key makes it, and well as the near-by keys smaller than they could be, but I'd rather have the tiny windows key they have now than nothing.

As for the stripes, I don't mind either way.

I *do* think that holding on to a certain design simply for the sake of nostalgia and tradition is foolish. The first thinkpad came out looking the way it did not because it was the pinnacle of design, but because it was the best they could come up with given the technology, resources, desired price point, etc. at the time. As time as gone on, I think there has been a misguided desire to hold on to that design, even when the ability to change has presented itself.

I do agree that form should follow function, especially in a business machine.

Do I want clean smooth surfaces like an overheating macbook, or vents and grills around like a cool running thinkpad?

Do I want glossy shiny surfaces that peel, or attract dirt, or do I want a rugged fingerprint-avoiding looks-good-even-years-later surface?

Do I want a super thin ohh-ahh chassis that will warp/distort if i'm not careful balancing load in my backpack / briefcase? Or do I want a thicker chassis with rugged protection that will endure?
(on this point, however.. i think ibm could do more to avoid the common keyboard imprints on the lcd...)


Having said that, however, why does it have to *try* to look exactly the same as it did 5 years ago? There are some *great* innovations in design happening at other companies, innovations that would not be possible if there was a rigid desire to closely emulate previous designs..

I say, let the Lenovo engineers be creative! Let form always follow function, but let the thinkpads *evolve* for goodness sake! Set them free to design a machine every bit, if not more, rugged than the previous thinkpads, but more elegant and sleek and still professional than any that has come before.

[erik]

erik, you completely missed my point, probably my fault for not being clearer. I never intended my response as a criticism of your suggestions. I question whether Lenovo has ever responded to any of our suggestions on any real issues. IMO, reponding with an opinion on something as silly as red stripes on the keyboard trivializes the valuable input members of this forum can make and have made and I find it somewhat insulting.
But then again perhaps I'm being to judgemental. Tme will tell.

steve, no problem.   i think that if lenovo asked about the red/blue stripes then perhaps they've been reevaluating the direction of their notebook lineup.   if that's the case then we can hope that they heed our suggestions.   if not then it's mud on their faces and we'll all buy macs.

I don't understand all this windows key hate.

imagine going 10 years using the exact same keyboard layout, the whole time using ctrl+alt key combinations.   now, because of one silly operating system, those of us who do not want the key are forced to deal with it, work around it, etc.

besides, not all of us use windows.   what good is the key to those running linux or macos on their thinkpads?   absolutely none.   if you buy a "linux compatible" thinkpad then you get the key.   why?

if there is going to be a windows key then at least offer separate non-windows-keyed keyboards.

[SkiBunny]

Rather than just the stripes, I'd like to have the entire touchad/ultranav back from before. The new small one on the 60-series is less functional... so I've turned it off.

It's not going to happen though because the new design is cheaper. And Lenovo's #1 priority is cheap, cheap, cheap.

[snife]

erik - they simply cannot do that, you need the windows key to get the windows sticker (and the MS compliance that brings)<snip>

Is that statement true? And if so, is it new? I have had and implemented more ThinkPads than I can count. None of them had ever had Windows keys.

And the Netvista I have now is the *first* IBM machine ever to have a Windows key (going back to 1981, before windows )

BTW, I have never, ever used a Windows key. And now, I doubt that I ever will. ... JDH

As far as I am aware it is - it used to be a recommendation but with the launch of Vista, I believe it became a necessity to be classed as designed for Windows Vista - they even have guidelines on how the key must look on newly designed systems (the circle around the windows logo).

I was never a fan of the Windows key but with Vista it is really useful for flip 3D and the run command and i'm finding the key more useful the more combinations I give a chance.

[NathanA]

Rather than just the stripes, I'd like to have the entire touchad/ultranav back from before.

Ugh...no. I much prefer the new touchpad design, as I explained in my LenovoBlogs post:

Also, I really, REALLY like the new touchpad design. It is now completely square, is smaller, further down from the TrackPoint buttons, and is not depressed into the palmrest area/is much closer to the surface. ALL of these things are FEATURES for a guy who absolutely detests touchpads and always turns them off on new ThinkPad acquisitions first thing; all of these changes make the touchpad easier to ignore and feel more out of my way, whereas the one on the T42 feels like it is eating away at valuable palmrest real-estate. Also, the fact that only the TrackPoint buttons are depressed into the palmrest now and are physically and logically separate and disconnected from the touchpad completely reinforces the point that the touchpad is an “afterthought” and the REAL show is over here in TrackPointLand. So, without the option of getting a T-series notebook palmrest that is ABSENT a touchpad (which I would still happily lobby for), these changes were the next best option, and I heartily approve of them.

The old "bottom rounded-corners" touchpad design on the T4x just kept calling visual attention to itself; it was distracting and its presence on the palmrest was obvious. I prefer the more "unassuming" design.

I also take issue with those who think that somehow preserving the old ThinkPad aesthetic is somehow "anti-fashion." The reason it is worth preserving is because it *is* a timeless design and has stood the test of time well. Black and angled == classy, at least to me (and I'm in my mid-twenties!). Also, it is simply naive to think that the ThinkPad design has not changed any in 15 years; ThinkPads of much earlier generations were WAY more boxy-looking than they are today. The R/T4x and R/T6x have interesting things going on stylistically that the 600 and 700 series simply did not have, and this is even more true if you go further back than that to the original 700 and 300 series. All of these "small touches" add up. If you can't see them, you must be blind. (Either that or the black coloring masks them, heh.)

I don't understand all this windows key hate.

Well, then allow me to spell it out for you.

-- Nathan