Troubleshooting occasional T23 power loss. Any ideas?

[dav1129]

Like many readers and contributors to this forum I love ThinkPads and although I have a brand new high end T60 waiting in a box I can't seem to give up my T23 (SXGA+ P3 1.2)

Many months maybe a year ago I started to experience the infamous pink, in my case I thought it was orange, hue and why I started to research and contemplate a new T60. And then one day there was a fizzle, splutter and small explosion in the bottom right hand corner of the LCD after which I had to use it with an external monitor.

I am certainly no hardware geek but knew that Lenovo or almost any repair centre would charge thousands for a new panel and located in Australia I didn't want to take a risk on an used LCD panel from the US. The more I thought about it and researched the problem on the Internet I came to conclusion that all I needed to replace was the backlight or CCFL lamp, which as it happened I scored free of charge from an authorised repair centre technician.

So with a couple of guides I found on the Internet and the T2x series hardware maintenance manual on my new T60 I set about removing and opening up the LCD panel to replace the backlight lamp. I was sure I had stuffed it up but it worked and after a spring clean looks and works better than ever! No small accomplishment for me EXCEPT that on a few occasions now and without notice it powers down as if there were a power cut and no battery or as if I turned it off by holding down the power on button.

Does anyone have any suggestions what it could be or what obvious things I should start looking for?

I am as I said no techie but have retraced the steps I took following the hardware manual (2MB) (right click and save target as) and the only thing I can see is that consistent with page 103, I didn't use any thermal grease when replacing the fan assembly. Can anyone tell me what the purpose of thermal grease is, how it should be used and whether it could be a contributing factor to sudden power loss or shorting?

Any suggestions much appreciated,
Dave

[rkawakami]

Can anyone tell me what the purpose of thermal grease is, how it should be used and whether it could be a contributing factor to sudden power loss or shorting?

The thermal grease aids in the heat transfer from the top of the CPU into the heatsink/fan assembly. It should be applied as a thin layer atop the CPU after the old stuff has been cleaned off. I use isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol to do that. The sudden loss of power can be caused by a thermal shutdown. In effect, the system is monitoring the temperature from sensor(s) on the motherboard and if it exceeds a certain limit, will cut power. You can monitor this yourself by downloading a program such as MobileMeter.

[dav1129]

Can anyone tell me what the purpose of thermal grease is, how it should be used and whether it could be a contributing factor to sudden power loss or shorting?

The thermal grease aids in the heat transfer from the top of the CPU into the heatsink/fan assembly. It should be applied as a thin layer atop the CPU after the old stuff has been cleaned off. I use isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol to do that. The sudden loss of power can be caused by a thermal shutdown. In effect, the system is monitoring the temperature from sensor(s) on the motherboard and if it exceeds a certain limit, will cut power. You can monitor this yourself by downloading a program such as MobileMeter.

Thanks for your reply Ray,

So despite as I said not being a hardware technician or vaguely knowing what I am doing was or am on the right track then looking at the the fan assembly? After retracing my steps it's the only thing I can remember disturbing which could be the problem.

I'll have a look at the program you suggest but before I read your reply I found a program called ThinkPad T42 Fan Control which also features on a few threads here. It works on my T23 and although I don't know how to use it yet, reports CPU temperatures averaging about 67C and often higher.

Before I go back in to have a look and reinstall the fan assembly, does thermal grease have to be a special grease and if so, where would I find it? I am not as I say I am not a hardware enthusiast or even someone who knows what I am doing. I am actually just a fairly handy violin maker and restorer passionate about restoring things before throwing them away.

David

PS in contrast to your suggestion that the thermal grease should be applied to the top of the CPU page 103 of the hardware manual I referred to refers to applying thermal grease to I think the underside of the fan assembly; I am not sure where the CPU is in relation to the fan assembly. Can I email you the page as PDF file?

[rkawakami]

<snip>... am on the right track then looking at the the fan assembly? After retracing my steps it's the only thing I can remember disturbing which could be the problem.

Probably so. Your description on how the system is shutting down would lead me to believe that it's turning off because the CPU is getting too hot. Any program which would allow you to monitor that temperature should give you a good idea that that's what's happening. If the temp gets around 85-90C (I forget the exact limit), then the thermal protection circuit should kick in.

<snip>... reports CPU temperatures averaging about 67C and often higher.

If you are already running the Fan Control program on the T23 then that should be fine. You probably don't need to get MobileMeter.

Before I go back in to have a look and reinstall the fan assembly, does thermal grease have to be a special grease and if so, where would I find it?

Generally, it's been reported that your local Radio Shack (or computer store; edit: how about Dick Smith?) should have some. Most people seem to like Arctic Silver 5 but as long as it's suggested for use with a CPU, then most any thermal grease will be better than nothing.

I am not sure where the CPU is in relation to the fan assembly.

On the T23, you remove the heatsink/fan assembly as one piece (three thin screws and pull off the fan connector). The CPU is located directly underneath. Here's a picture of the top side of a T23 motherboard:

http://www.rkawakami.net/ibm_t2x/mobo_top_72_legend.jpg

The large white socket assembly in "map location" B2/C2 is the CPU socket. The CPU will be a large green square that sits in that socket. The top of the CPU is slightly raised and when cleaned off, has a mirror finish. If you look at the bottom side of the heatsink, you should probably see some excess thermal grease there too. Clean both of those surfaces (top of CPU, underside of heatsink) with a cotton swab dipped in a little isoproply alcohol. Let dry for a minute. Apply a small amount of thermal grease in the center of the CPU; no more than about one grain of rice. Drop the heatsink/fan assembly straight down on top, secure it with the three screws and finish putting the system back together. Run the fan control program and see if/how much the temperature has dropped.

[dav1129]

Thanks again Ray,

I'll pick up some crease at Dick Smith tomorrow.

In the interim i have been looking at both Mobile Meter and ThinkPad fan Control but wonder if particularly with Mobile Meter is there a log which will show recorded temperatures and presumably the temperature when the thermal protection kicked in?

Thanks very much for your help and prompt replies.

Dave

[rkawakami]

In MobileMeter's Options screen, click the ACPI Temperature tab and you should see Critical Temperature at 96C and Passive Cooling Temp at 90.5C. My guess would be those are the temps at which the fan should be on fully (90.5C) and system shutdown (96C). I don't believe that there's any disk log that's maintained with this data.

[dav1129]

Hi Ray, thanks again for your reply.

I think I am on top of it now and will get some thermal grease tomorrow.

In the meantime I have immersed myself in and been using ThinkPad Fan Control to control the the fan. I vaguely understand some of it but not yet the how the 'Levels' which can be edited in the ini file work.

Are you or anyone else for that matter, familiar enough with them to explain them to me? Is the a kind a reverse order or functionality which I am not understanding? i.e. in manual mode the fan seems to go on and remain when according to the levels I think it should be off.

David

[dav1129]

Hi Ray,

Thanks for your helpful replies.

I have just started up my T23 after picking up some thermal grease and following your instructions.

Although I have only just restarted the machine it would seem that with the new thermal grease the CPU temperature is hovering at or below 50C without the assistance of TP Fan Control whereas it the starting temperature before was about 67C and rose to 90C

So all round a great success. I have given I hope my T23 a new lease on life by replacing the CCFL lamp and now reapplying the thermal grease.

David

[rkawakami]

I can't answer any question about the Fan Control program as I don't use it. There's probably some threads around here which discuss the ins-and-outs of using that program.

The system I'm on every day is almost like yours. It's a 2647-HNU (1.2Ghz SXGA+ stuffed with 1024MB of memory). It idles around 55C with the fan turning on and off as the temp climbs to about 60-65C when the system is being used. When Firefox decides to lock up or get stuck in some kind of loop, I've seen the temperature get up around 85C. I think I had applied some thermal grease several months back when I got this system but perhaps it's time to go in and clean out some cobwebs (and cat fur and bird dust - from a quarrion, a.k.a., cockatiel, one of your native species and the avatar to the left).

Enjoy your "new" T23 and I hope it gives you many years of service!