Caring for the battery

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mattkrass · #1 Post by **mattkrass** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:19 am

I ordered a new T61 and I'm awaiting it's delivery, along with a 7-cell battery. I'm expecting with modest settings to get ~3 hours out of it with an nVidia card, this sound accurate? (Modest means WiFi on, web browser and maybe a word processor, nothing more)

Also, I was wondering, how do I care for this battery?
What charge level should I store it at?
Is it better to leave it plugged in? Remove the battery when charged?
I've been told to discharge the battery down to 40% and then remove it when not in use, and other things. Is there a good guide to maintaining ThinkPad batteries?

My current laptop (Dell Inspiron 6000) is on its second replacement battery, and is currently holding a barely 90 minute charge, are the ThinkPad batteries going to fail on me so quickly? I need the computer for my school work and AC power is not a common availability when running between classes. I want to make sure I keep the batteries longevity up as long as possible.

NaT · #2 Post by **NaT** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:33 am

Thinkpad battery's very smart. You can set when to start and when to stop charging the battery.

Normally I set it to starts charging at 2% and stop charging at 100%. When I know gonna need to use battery for off-site, I will override this value to initiate charging of the battery. This reduces the cycle of battery charging and elongates battery life.

I've been using this battery for almost two year now and the full-charge capacity has dropped around 10% from its original design.

NaT · #3 Post by **NaT** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:43 am

About removing battery when the battery's not in used is not recommended by IBM/Lenovo. You're exposing the electrical terminals, unless you have a dummy battery unit (can be ordered from Lenovo as a part no.) Someone from the T6x forum also found that Vista power management will not function correctly if you remove the battery and having AC power on.

In the very old IBM thinkpads, like T21,T20,A-series, i-series, if you leave the battery charged for too long, a few days for example, you can damage the battery. But the newer thinkpads do not have that problem.

If you want to store the thinkpad and battery for a long time, then it's okay to leave the battery at 20-30%, remove from the unit and store in a good plastic bag, to keep the battery life.

acasto · #4 Post by **acasto** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:10 am

I've had my T60p for 8 months and have managed to only put 10 cycles on the battery. I just set it to not start charging until it gets to 40% and stop at 80%, and I only leave it plugged up if I powered it off while it was plugged in. If you power it off, then plug it up, for some reason it will charge all the way to 100%. So if I turn mine off while on battery, unless I need it to charge all the way I just stick it on my bag or set it on my desk. Then plug it up the next morning when I turn it on.

SHoTTa35 · #5 Post by **SHoTTa35** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:51 am

most people will tell you that letting the battery run down to 2% will damage the battery over time as Li-ion batteries don't like to be "deep discharged" I have my thresholds set at 80% and 96% that way it keep the battery fully charged when not in use. I have only lost .05wHrs this way since about 1 month of having this battery even tho i put on 7 cycles.

#6 Post by **jdhurst** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:18 am

The key thing with batteries is to recognize that they are a live chemical unit, and at 50,000 feet, there is nothing you can do to save them.

I ignore ALL the advice given here. I use my battery (or use AC) however I wish, whenever I wish. After 3 years, I had to replace the battery. Duh!
... JDH

mattkrass · #7 Post by **mattkrass** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:12 pm

Thanks for the helpful replies, I have another query though:

Is there any place to buy battery "Blanks" for the T6x series? My roommate and I are looking for ones to put in our ThinkPads (he has a 9-cell T60 and I'm getting a 7-cell T61) when we're running on just AC so as to not expose the battery terminals to the environment while we're using the computers.

I remember seeing something somewhere about it, perhaps on this site, but I can't find it again, any ideas?

Thanks

#8 Post by **carbon_unit** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:22 pm

jdhurst wrote:I ignore ALL the advice given here. I use my battery (or use AC) however I wish, whenever I wish. After 3 years, I had to replace the battery. Duh!
... JDH

Exactly! Just use the battery and enjoy it. Newer Thinkpads don't suffer from the battery problems that the older ones did (especially the 600 series). If it is going to ride a desk all the time your money is more wisely spent on a desktop computer.
Keep in mind that batteries deteriorate with age. So even if you have a 3 year old battery with 0 cycles on it, it will not perform as well as one manufactured 3 months ago. It will rapidly lose it's ability to hold a charge. Worrying about battery life and going through a bunch of precautions to save the battery will slightly preserve the battery for the next guy to use.

jcvjcvjcvjcv · #9 Post by **jcvjcvjcvjcv** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:27 pm

acasto wrote:I've had my T60p for 8 months and have managed to only put 10 cycles on the battery. I just set it to not start charging until it gets to 40% and stop at 80%, and I only leave it plugged up if I powered it off while it was plugged in. If you power it off, then plug it up, for some reason it will charge all the way to 100%. So if I turn mine off while on battery, unless I need it to charge all the way I just stick it on my bag or set it on my desk. Then plug it up the next morning when I turn it on.

Then WHY did you buy a laptop? Why should you, if you never use it unplugged?

I have my T61 now for one month, having 16 cycles on the mainbattery and 8 on the Ultrabay one. And I thought I had plugged it in a lot...

Anyway, my laptop is also powered on 20 hours a day, so I can't really unplug it if I am on the road

shadowwyvern · #10 Post by **shadowwyvern** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:44 pm

The way i see it, mobility does not nessecarily mean running on battery power. For example, at my university, one is rarely very far from a power outlet (though ethernet is a different matter), so there is really no need to strain the battery unnessecarily. I think this is what mattkrass is asking for, a way to remain mobile and protect the battery contacts without making the battery pay the price in heat and strange charge cycles as a reuslt of power manager not always being loaded. Personally, I like nothing better than to find a nice remote corner with wifi and curl up on battery power, but most of the time the is not nessecary. I cannot speak for matkrass, but I certainly don't have $175+ to dump into a new battery every 2-3 years.

ezlynx · #11 Post by **ezlynx** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:42 pm

There's a great battery guide here:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=91846

Should answer most of your questions and maybe even some you didn't think of! (just sent the link to my daughter yesterday)

#12 Post by **bill bolton** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:09 pm

shadowwyvern wrote:but I certainly don't have $175+ to dump into a new battery every 2-3 years.

None the less, you will be need a new battery every 2 or 3 years whether you use the battery much or not.

Cheers,

Bill B.

#13 Post by **bill bolton** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:24 pm

ezlynx wrote:There's a great battery guide here:

Meh!

In general running ThinkPad with a LiON battery on mains AC power doesn't have much real effect on overall battery life in practice, but that guide implies otherwise through reference to "Loss of charge cycles" while not quantifying what that means.

Cheers,

Bill B.

mind72 · #14 Post by **mind72** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:08 am

So, can someone tell me should I buy new original IBM battery, or new replacement one (from other manufacturer, but for IBM T30). I have received info that IBM give only 3 months warranty, and replacement manufacturers like Vistaport - 2 years. Anyone?

#15 Post by **ryengineer** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:35 am

mind72 wrote:So, can someone tell me should I buy new original IBM battery, or new replacement one (from other manufacturer, but for IBM T30). I have received info that IBM give only 3 months warranty, and replacement manufacturers like Vistaport - 2 years. Anyone?

You heard wrong, lenovo gives 1 yr. limited warranty on batteries. Also, original lenovo batteries are expected to last longer than any other 3rd party oem manufactured.

mind72 · #16 Post by **mind72** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:02 am

Thanks for the info! That's strange, as official IMB service here said to me that is 3 months, and that they don't know why IBM gives so short warranty. Anyone else around the world ? How it is with it in Europe?

barrywohl · #17 Post by **barrywohl** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:17 am

jcvjcvjcvjcv wrote:I have my T61 now for one month, having 16 cycles on the mainbattery and 8 on the Ultrabay one.

How is your Ultrabay battery doing? I had one for my Z61p. After a couple months of use it was down to 65% capacity (and the 100% capacity wasn't that great). I returned it when I returned my Z61p at 3 months and got a credit. Now I have another Ultrabay battery on order with my T61p order, but I'm worried about how to use it to not diminish its capacity so soon.

shadowwyvern · #18 Post by **shadowwyvern** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:26 pm

Another think to watch with discount batteries is their date of manufacture, li-ions do lose a lot of capacity in storage, esp if done improperly, so it is best to buy direct from the manufacturer.

bill bolton wrote:None the less, you will be need a new battery every 2 or 3 years whether you use the battery much or not.

That is the fate i am trying to avoid. Example: Now, in the summer, my laptop is mostly deskbound, so my battery is at 40% charge and in a coolish part of room (though it is all relative, we do not have AC), reducing the capacity damage to 5-10% a year (according to Battery University), instead of 20% if it left it at full charge. It is procedures liek this that i hope will allow me to keep this battery for a very long time. Obviously it is not going to last forever, but if I could get 3-4 years out of it instead of 2-3, that would be great.

EDIT: Remembered another thing I try to do is charge the battery with the notebook (a T60) powered up, since at least with my older Dell Insprion 4100, charge time with the notepook on tripled, which further reduces wear on the battery. Not sure this is true with thinkpads thoough. I also noticed that the wattage delivered to the battery while charing varies dramatically, I am pretty sure some of this is hard coded, but if power manager is monitor the charge, does it adjust charge rate based on conditions (ie cell temp)?

quink · #19 Post by **quink** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:36 pm

this just seems silly. Its like trying to avoid unnecessary wear on car tires. If you use the car, they will wear and you will have to replace them. Its part of the operating costs.
$175/2.5years=$70 a year. $5.8 a month. If you can't afford that then I wonder how you can afford a laptop to begin with.

Just use common sense.

Also, ebay is a great source for new batteries. Many people sell new, factory original batteries for $50-$100.

pipspeak · #20 Post by **pipspeak** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:33 pm

I read somewhere that 45% is the optimal capacity at which to store a Li battery. In practice I just leave mine on the machine and have it charge when it reaches 50%.

IMO the biggest threat to Li batteries is excessive heat. Leave one in a hot car for a day and you've shortened its life considerably.

It also helps when there's a battery recall... free replacement

#21 Post by **carbon_unit** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:47 pm

quink wrote:Also, ebay is a great source for new batteries. Many people sell new, factory original batteries for $50-$100.

And in two or three years when they need a replacement the batteries will be even cheaper. They cannot base their "in the future" claims on today's battery prices.
Just use your battery.

mind72 · #22 Post by **mind72** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:00 pm

Unfortunately my battery lasts only about 45 min. But that's normal as it has been in use from beginning of 2004! No special procedures done for it.
So, I must buy a new one! Did anyone used Vistaport ? Those are also slightly stronger : 11.1V (for T30)

mattkrass · #23 Post by **mattkrass** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:58 pm

quink wrote:this just seems silly. Its like trying to avoid unnecessary wear on car tires. If you use the car, they will wear and you will have to replace them. Its part of the operating costs.
$175/2.5years=$70 a year. $5.8 a month. If you can't afford that then I wonder how you can afford a laptop to begin with.

Just use common sense.

Also, ebay is a great source for new batteries. Many people sell new, factory original batteries for $50-$100.

Just because I can afford it doesn't make it a smart move. I bought a ThinkPad because of the quality reputation it has, I think it would be somewhat dumb of me to then turn around and treat it like crap and force myself to replace it earlier.

I can afford the laptop because I've not done anything interesting all summer, I've put every last cent I made away for this computer, because I need it for school and I want it to last, after breaking my [censored] all summer I'm not going to just sit there and abuse the battery.

Now back to the original point of my postings, which were questions that have been mostly answered, however I am still looking for a source of battery "Blanks" to protect the contacts under the computer.

Please no more replies if you're just going to tell me how stupid my desire to respect my equipment is. It's a waste of my time and yours.

Caring for the battery

Caring for the battery

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