T60/p with 4GB RAM

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RonS
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T60/p with 4GB RAM

#1 Post by RonS » Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:21 pm

Yes - I know, the T60 cannot see 4GB of memory. With 4GB installed, only 3GB is visible regardless of operating system.

However... I spent a few hours benchmarking memory performance with various combinations of 1GB and 2GB memory modules, and with 32-bit Windows XP and 64-bit Vista. With matching memory modules, the T60 memory runs in dual-channel symmetric mode. With mismatching memory, it runs in either single-channel or dual-channel asymmetric, probably the latter. Dual-channel symmetric gives a slight performance increase over the other two modes.

I won't bore you with the tables of performance results, so here it is in a netshell:

1. Memory performance is essentially the same between 32-bit XP and 64-bit Vista

2. My benchmark results show that memory performs about 8% faster in symmetric mode (matching modules) than in asymmetric mode (mismatching modules).

3. For best performance, install two 2GB modules. This allows the 3GB of usable memory to run in symmetric mode.

4. The real-world performance boost of symmetric mode vs asymmetric mode is negligible for most users. It's probably not worth the extra money if you're upgrading memory, unless you happen to get a second 2GB module for free like I did.
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Re: T60/p with 4GB RAM

#2 Post by mattbiernat » Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:52 am

yeah i did quite a bit of research on this subject long time ago. back then most people were wondering whether to get 2X1gb. The overall performance gain was just about between 0-8% but that mostly depends on the aplication.

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#3 Post by orlay » Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:18 am

To RonS,

Just curious, how do you get free RAMS? :D
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#4 Post by RonS » Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:54 am

I ordered one 2GB module, but there were two of them in the box. I'm contacting Crucial about it, but in the meantime I thought it would be good to do some benchmarking.
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#5 Post by orlay » Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:55 am

Very nice. How much are those now? I am thinking to upgrade, but just waiting a little while for the price drop. :D
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#6 Post by Pascal_TTH » Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:24 am

It's about the same for the G.Skill DDR2-667 CL4. I buy them, just to seen how it goes... Useless for most people (except if you buy a barebone without memory, if you can sold your module at good price or if you can use them to upgrade an other laptop).

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RonS did you noticed performances improve in common application between 2 x 1 GB and 2 x 2 GB ?
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Re: T60/p with 4GB RAM

#7 Post by mattbiernat » Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:04 pm

did anyone try if its possible to put 4gb of RAM into T60. Have windows use 3gb and somehow enable the other 1gb to use it for RAMDISK. That way you could put your swap file there.

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Re: T60/p with 4GB RAM

#8 Post by RonS » Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:16 pm

mattbiernat wrote:did anyone try if its possible to put 4gb of RAM into T60. Have windows use 3gb and somehow enable the other 1gb to use it for RAMDISK. That way you could put your swap file there.
The T60 chipset will only recognize the first 3GB. I really like your idea, but I don't see how it could work.
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Re: T60/p with 4GB RAM

#9 Post by erik » Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:43 am

RonS wrote:The T60 chipset will only recognize the first 3GB. I really like your idea, but I don't see how it could work.
is this because of the core duo processor or bios?   would installing a C2D processor with 64-bit windows help or would it still only see 3GB?
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Re: T60/p with 4GB RAM

#10 Post by caseyse » Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:02 pm

erik wrote:is this because of the core duo processor or bios? would installing a C2D processor with 64-bit windows help or would it still only see 3GB?
I believe the 3GB limitation is from Intel's chipset. I've installed a C2D in my new T60P, and installed 4GB of RAM. With Gentoo AMD64, only 3GB is recognized. I also dual boot to 32-bit Win. 2003 Enterprise Svr., which only sees 3GB.

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#11 Post by erik » Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:14 pm

ahh, ok.   that's disappointing but still good to know.   thank you.
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Re: T60/p with 4GB RAM

#12 Post by johnvndnbrk » Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:01 pm

caseyse wrote:I believe the 3GB limitation is from Intel's chipset. I've installed a C2D in my new T60P, and installed 4GB of RAM. With Gentoo AMD64, only 3GB is recognized. I also dual boot to 32-bit Win. 2003 Enterprise Svr., which only sees 3GB.
Do you happen to know if the limiitation is solely due to the chipset or does the OS impact this as well, i.e. WinXP 32 running on a 64-bit processor will still only see/use the 3GB?

John

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Re: T60/p with 4GB RAM

#13 Post by erik » Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:48 pm

johnvndnbrk wrote:Do you happen to know if the limiitation is solely due to the chipset or does the OS impact this as well, i.e. WinXP 32 running on a 64-bit processor will still only see/use the 3GB?
if neither 32-bit 2003 enterprise server nor 64-bit gentoo linux can see all 4GB then it's definitely a hardware limitation.
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Re: T60/p with 4GB RAM

#14 Post by whizkid » Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:53 am

johnvndnbrk wrote:Do you happen to know if the limiitation is solely due to the chipset or does the OS impact this as well, i.e. WinXP 32 running on a 64-bit processor will still only see/use the 3GB?
The T60/p has a limit of 3GB usable RAM. 32-bit Windows (both XP and Vista) is also limited to 3.25GB or 3.5GB RAM, even running on a 64-bit CPU.

The T61 has a 4GB limit, so if you run 32-bit Windows on it, you'll get to use 3.25 or 3.5 GB of RAM, but you can use all 4GB on a T61 if you use a 64-bit OS.
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#15 Post by davidlg16 » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:27 am

Pascal_TTH wrote:


RonS did you noticed performances improve in common application between 2 x 1 GB and 2 x 2 GB ?

bump...
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#16 Post by RonS » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:48 am

Pascal_TTH wrote:RonS did you noticed performances improve in common application between 2 x 1 GB and 2 x 2 GB ?
When I use XP (32), the extra 1GB doesn't seem to make too much of a difference.

But when I use Vista 64 (which is my primary OS), that extra 1GB makes a HUGE difference. It seems like Vista really needs at least 3GB to perform well.
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#17 Post by erik » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:57 am

ahh, this thread brings back memories.   it's the entire reason why i performed my OS/memory test stickied above. :D
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#18 Post by davidlg16 » Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:32 pm

Thank you
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#19 Post by Jay_Z » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:50 pm

RonS wrote:
Pascal_TTH wrote:RonS did you noticed performances improve in common application between 2 x 1 GB and 2 x 2 GB ?
When I use XP (32), the extra 1GB doesn't seem to make too much of a difference.

But when I use Vista 64 (which is my primary OS), that extra 1GB makes a HUGE difference. It seems like Vista really needs at least 3GB to perform well.

Ok, so based on your tests, tell me - is there a still a significant advantage in going from 2 x 1GB installed to 1 x 1GB + 1 x 2GB (3GB total)?

Or, by losing the dual channel/symmetrical is there only a negligible gain with this?

Trying to determine if it's worth it to upgrade to 3GB or if I would really have to get 2 x 2GB modules to really see the gain even if I am only using 3GB of that.

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#20 Post by ducky2802 » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:43 pm

I had the 2x2gb installed. It sometimes would cause random error messages of the nature that the memory was out of bounds and could not be read. No big deal, but then I decided to split the 2x2GB and the 2X1GB across two machines into the 1X2 and 1x1GB. Havent seen any error messages since, and really havent noticed a speed drop between 4GB and 3GB in xp pro.

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#21 Post by pianowizard » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:45 pm

ducky2802, thanks for that interesting report. It's very helpful for people contemplating upgrading to 4GB.
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#22 Post by meekus » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:23 pm

2GB+2GB = symmetric dual channel mode
2GB+1GB = asymmetric dual channel mode

IOW the laptop's RAM will still run in dual channel mode either way, except symmetric dual channel is just a pitiful 2-3% faster max.

If one's ThinkPad already has 1GB installed from the factory then installing a 2GB stick for 3GB total makes absolute sense. Just for grins, that's how I configured my own T60 with a T7200 Core 2 Duo CPU running WinXP Pro.

But if one has to pull the factory 1GB stick in order to install two sticks of 2GB RAM just to enable the much hyped symmetric dual mode, one better hope that those two stick of 2GB RAM only cost 2-3% more than the cost of just one 2GB stick, because in the end, with only 3.25 or so GB actually usable out of 4GB total and memory bandwidth improved by only 2-3% max, one's really not scoring much of a deal.

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#23 Post by Jay_Z » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:39 pm

Good info - my T60p (8744J2U) has 2 x 1GB installed so I would be ditching 1 x 1GB for a 2GB module. So the cost of the lost here isn't quite as significant.

Anyone buying a 1GB module? Or maybe I should wait to check my performance!

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#24 Post by Yoguess » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:36 pm

so how many ram slots are in T60P, 2??
I have 2 gig of ram, so how do I find out if I have 2X1gb or 1x2gb??
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Re: T60/p with 4GB RAM

#25 Post by tylerwylie » Sat Apr 12, 2008 12:56 am

whizkid wrote:
The T61 has a 4GB limit, so if you run 32-bit Windows on it, you'll get to use 3.25 or 3.5 GB of RAM, but you can use all 4GB on a T61 if you use a 64-bit OS.
Not exactly, we don't know the memory limitations on Santa Rosa just yet. Anyone have a couple 4gb sticks to try? 8)
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#26 Post by Jay_Z » Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:15 am

Yoguess wrote:so how many ram slots are in T60P, 2??
I have 2 gig of ram, so how do I find out if I have 2X1gb or 1x2gb??
What is the part # of your system? I think most of the 2GB use 2x1GB - but as I look at the old reference sheets, not all of them.

Let me know the part, I will confirm it for you.

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#27 Post by Yoguess » Sat Apr 12, 2008 12:27 pm

8743CTO

thanks Jay
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#28 Post by ryengineer » Sat Apr 12, 2008 12:36 pm

Yoguess wrote:so how many ram slots are in T60P, 2??
I have 2 gig of ram, so how do I find out if I have 2X1gb or 1x2gb??
Here (Right Click and then Save Target As). Unzip it then open cpuz, go to SPD and check Slot 1 and 2 if none of them are empty then you have 1+1GB otherwise 1x2GB memory stick.
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#29 Post by Jay_Z » Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:34 am

Yoguess wrote:8743CTO

thanks Jay
I guess I won't look this up for you - since it's a CTO (Configure to Order) it will be configured as you specified!

If I open PC Doctor then Open 'System Reports' then 'System Information', mine shows 'Total Number of Memory Modules & Total Number of DIMM Slots" The Number of DIMM slots = 2, so just check the other to see if it's 1 or 2. If it's 1, you have one free!

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#30 Post by mario_jr » Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:43 am

Hi!
I've just downloaded the "Mobile Intel® 945 Express Chipset Family" Datasheet and Intel clearly states that it supports 4GB of RAM. Why t60 just sees 3GB.. there is somenthing weird.

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