Is "PC_Doctor diagnosis" foolproof ?

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aditya1956 · #1 Post by **aditya1956** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:52 pm

Hi Everybody,

I am Aditya and this is my first-time here.

I have been trying to get registered since last month. Somehow I succeeded today only. However in the mean time I have been seriously browsing the topics discussed here to clarify my doubts. I have just switched to Thinkpads from Compaqs and Vaios and I am really liking them for what they are. For my regular use I have got a R51 which seems to be quite a rugged one, will get a T42 probabely in 2 weeks time. But my most favourite one is a T20 which I have bought on the e-Bay last Sept '06. And the questions are about this one.....

1) It refuses to load XP, and stays stuck when trying to load "devices". I have loaded W2K & it is perfect with all things working perfectly. From various discussions here I came to know of the Mini PCI Card issue, and tried loading after removing it but without success.

2) It does not boot with both the "adaptor and battery" connected. It boots okay either only with the adaptor or only with the battery but not both. The battery charging part is perfect. The adaptors are also perfect ( 16v 4.5A ).

Now if I run PC-Doc T2x ( ISO file downloaded from a link as provided here in many discussions) it finds everything to be perfect.

My point is...... it is definitely some hardware malfunctioning. But then why it does not reflect in the diagnosis ?

Or am I missing something ?

Thanks to everybody in advance
Aditya

#2 Post by **rkawakami** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:34 pm

Welcome to thinkpads.com!

While PC Doctor attempts to check out all of the hardware in the system, there are certain things that it normally can't verify. For example, ports which communicate with external hardware (serial, parallel, USB and PCMCIA) cannot be fully checked without special loopback plugs or interface cables. The same would be true for some of the internal circuits; there may be subsystems which by design are not accessable to the test software. So I would say, no, PC Doctor cannot check everything 100%.

If you have gone through all of the major tests under the Diagnostics menu (CPU/Coprocessor, Systemboard, Video Adapter, Serial Ports, Parallel Ports, Fixed Disks, Other Devices [CDROM/DVD, AC adapter, battery, thermal sensors, fan, Crystal Soundfusion], Communication, Memory) and they all pass, then you will need to try some other troubleshooting methods.

You can independently verify the hard drive using a tool such as Hitachi DFT, which works best with Hitachi/Travelstar drives but can be used with others and the memory with memtest86+. You can also verify that the WinXP install disk is readable by putting that disk in the drive during the CDROM/DVD test. As far as the adapter+battery non-boot problem, that sounds like something with the power conditioning circuitry on the motherboard and that's not easy to fix. About the only thing you can do is swap out the motherboard with a known working unit. That might also solve your XP loading problem as well. When we don't have the schematics for the system, the best troubleshooting technique is to exchange components. Of course that costs money and may not be practical in all cases (especially yours if there's no local market for Thinkpad components). The other (free) thing you can do, but is a low-probability fix, is to pull the motherboard out of the case and closely inspect it on both sides. You might get very lucky and find something that obviously looks wrong (partially detached component or a burnt component). The first type is fixable given you have the proper tools (soldering iron, steady hands, good eyes). The second is more harder to solve. If you can figure out what it is, you then have to find a cost-effective replacement part.

aditya1956 · #3 Post by **aditya1956** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:37 am

Many thanks for the reply - rkawakami.

Yes, I think the whole thing points towards a faulty systemboard which I have also been seeing being refered to in many of the previous discussions. It seems it is kind of a weakness of the 2647 board.

But from your reply regarding the mem_test and hdd_test necessities, its kind of confusing for me to understand as to how it will help XP in being loaded. If the fault would have been in any of these then how win2k_pro is getting loaded alright, accepting automatic upgrades from IBM and being_steady for the last 5/6 months ? The mini-pci-card issue is okay as it seems to be a device recognition problem for XP. But regarding mem and hdd, I think win2k is as intelligent as XP if not more. Am I right or something else is working here ?

Thanks again

#4 Post by **rkawakami** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:15 pm

It never hurts to eliminate any other chance, if impossibly small at that, of other pieces of hardware given that it doesn't cost you anything (besides time). Since those two diagnostic programs are free and can independently verify that the hard drive and memory are not an issue, then I'd say "why not run them".

Yes, given that Win2K appears to install/run fine, then it's probably not a hard drive or memory issue. But with the complexity of today's hardware and software, I don't see any drawbacks to doing the extra tests before going out and spending money on another motherboard.

Also, I still would strongly suggest that you check the WinXP install disk to make sure that it is not your problem. Run the PC Doctor CD-ROM/DVD test with your WinXP disk loaded. It will scan the CD and make sure that each and every sector is readable.

SMA · #5 Post by **SMA** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:26 pm

Wouldn't it be worth trying to update to the latest bios.
Also, there might be firmware updates available for the cd/dvd drive and the harddrive.

#6 Post by **rkawakami** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:52 pm

BIOS update may help but given that the OP has said that Win2K runs fine I'd first research what the differences are between the existing BIOS version and the latest. If there is something specifically related to XP compatibility or XP installs in the changes between them, then yes, that would be a good reason to upgrade. Otherwise, I'm a fan of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" philosophy.

Not so sure about CD/DVD firmware upgrades. I've only recently upgraded a couple of CDRW/DVD combo drives and it was only to get them to read DVD+ media.

BillP · #7 Post by **BillP** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:13 pm

According to http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... IGR-4R3UYP Windows XP support was added in bios version 1.17 - IYET57WW. The latest is Version IYET61WW - 1.22.

aditya1956 · #8 Post by **aditya1956** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:50 pm

Thanks to all for the suggestions. Herewith I am furnishing all the details again for my T20 so as to make the diagnosis easier.

My problem is:-
1) It does not load WinXP. It goes till the "Devices Installations" portion and then stops in the middle of it. It just freezes.

2) It does not boot and go all the way when both the adaptor (16V 4.5A) and battery (new one)are connected. It starts and then stops midway just before chosing the system_file source. But in the case of 'only battery' or 'only adaptor' it does not pose any problems. The adaptor and the charging part are okay. A fully charged batt gives around 2.5/3 hrs of backup time.

The bios is the latest Version:- IYET61WW - 1.22. I had flashed it myself before loading any OS as it was an important correction needed as per the IBM site.

Firmware update is already done for the hdd (20GB) and the optical drive (CD-RW).

RAM (256MB pc-100) is okay both as per PC-Doc and Mem_Test (this I did just today after getting Ray's advice).

The XP CD is okay. as NERO successfully makes a disk copy. I have further checked it through PC-Doc just now. It also loaded correctly on my other thinkpad (R51) when tried on a test_basis on the same hdd.

Win2K_Pro loads well and is running absolutely fantastic for the last 6 months on the same hdd. It also receives automatic updates both from IBM and Microsoft. It took me 11 times of Win2K_loading before I understood every bit of info about the drivers and updates and their sequences so as to have a factory like setup, and each time it has loaded without any hassles.

I assume that probabely WinXP somehow is sensing the defect in the power-up circuitary and is stalling when loading its controls during the "devices installation" period. Otherwise I am at a loss.

Any ideas ?

.

BillP · #9 Post by **BillP** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:14 pm

I have a desktop (HP) that behaves the same way during XP installation. It stalls during hardware driver installation and will sit there forever. Manually powering the computer off and restarting it allows the installation to proceed and ultimately finish. Try forcing a reboot when the installation hangs. Do this three times if needed before giving up on the installation.

aditya1956 · #10 Post by **aditya1956** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:29 pm

Yes, this seems to be a good idea. This also has been the suggestion of Microsoft for stalled installations since the Win98 days. I will try it out and post the outcome.

aditya1956 · #11 Post by **aditya1956** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:59 am

Hi all,

This is to update my results regarding my failure to install XP in my T20 (2647-46G, 20GB, 256MB, CDRW, 14.1", XIRCOM MPCI).

It goes up to the "devices installations" portion and then just stops in the middle of this. Any further rebooting ends in the same place only. I infact have tried both the "clean installation" and "upgrade" styles, but the end results are the same.

My Win2K is working alright though.

Is there any thing else to be tried ?

aditya1956 · #12 Post by **aditya1956** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:00 am

Hi Everybody,

I have finally solved the problems...........after nearly 42 unsuccessful XP installation attempts and 6/7 months.

I had two problems with my T20:
[(2647 46G), 14.1", 700mhz, 20gb, 256mb, CDRW]

1) WinXP was getting stuck during installation.
2) The machine will not boot with the both the power sources (AC Adaptor and Battery) connected. Any single source no problems.

I found the solution by inspecting the contents of the incomplete XP installation files in the default "Windows" folder. Here after going through the setuplog.txt, setuperr.txt, setupapi.txt etc files I found the last file where the installation had stopped pointed to the ACPI/PWR section. This was in all the files. So this gave me the reason why & where XP was getting stuck.

I then disabled all the "Power Features" in the BIOS portion.

And then tried a fresh trial, and to my surprise and relief I found it to do it in one go........perfectly.

Then after the full installation was complete and all the updates from Microsoft and IBM were over, I returned back to the BIOS to pin point the exact feature which was responsible for this problem.

The culprit was the "Intel Speedstep Feature"
in the "BIOS>Config>Power" menu which by default is always in the Automatic Mode. I just "Disable"-ed it and left all others as per the default settings. And the problem is solved. Actually XP has built-in SPEEDSTEP feature unlike others. Yes, the Mini-PCI issue was no issue at all in my case. XP not only recognised it but also loaded the right drivers and made it functional.

This has also solved my other (booting) problem. Now it boots in any combination.

I have reffered to many discussions in the past 6/7 months. The only conclusion that I had had was that the systemboard errors were somehow or the other linked with a malfunctioning Power-Mngmt portion of it. Here in this forum also many have guessed it rightly. I think my case has revealed the exact area where it lies in. I am sure anybody who is able to boot and have access to the BIOS area but not beyond that will definitely be able to gain here. So pls try this. May many more happy thinkpadders show up.

Have not slept in the past 36 hrs......need it now......

vanaya · #13 Post by **vanaya** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:41 am

atta boy!!!

I'm glad you didn't give up... I have been keeping a close eye on this particular problem as I have been more interested in the T2x Series. I have bought a few from Ebay, but fortunetly all have been simple compared to this.

#14 Post by **rkawakami** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:55 pm

Excellent troubleshooting! Will have to file this one away in the memory banks.

Website · #15 Post by **tfflivemb2** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:26 pm

rkawakami wrote:Will have to file this one away in the memory banks.

ROTFLMAO...coming from a guy that works for a ram manufacturer...

Is "PC_Doctor diagnosis" foolproof ?

Is "PC_Doctor diagnosis" foolproof ?

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