T61p graphics problems

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imnotahippie · #121 Post by **imnotahippie** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:03 pm

ya know i don't know about that one. i have tryed 3d marks 99 2000, and 2001(just for fun) as well as 03,05 and 06 and never had any problems. (that is with only one ram chip though. if i put 2 in. there is no chance of that happening.

sugo · #122 Post by **sugo** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:17 am

After running 10 cycles of BurnInTest's 3D Graphics + CPU tests (it lasted for around 11 minutes), I couldn't get my intel graphics T61 to shutdown.

Memory slots are filled with a pair of matched Crucial. Throughout the tests CPU stays at 80-100% utilitization. CPU cores' temperatures stay between 52-60'C.

It seems the issue is Nvidia specific.

SnakeJW · #123 Post by **SnakeJW** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:56 am

imnotahippie wrote:snake try and take one of your ram chips out. i will bet money on it that everything will work just fine once you do that.

Thanks buddy, but that's not real solution for the problem, is that? Unless lenovo will give some of my money back.

#124 Post by **erik** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:27 am

SnakeJW wrote:Thanks buddy, but that's not real solution for the problem, is that? Unless lenovo will give some of my money back.

it is for now. besides, judging by your signature, you'd only be losing 1GB since vista 32 can only address 3GB of your total 4GB anyway.

tyito2000 · #125 Post by **tyito2000** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:59 am

eom...

dodeca-t · #126 Post by **dodeca-t** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:46 am

I also had very similar problems with a T60P.

Specifically, Blue Screen with NMI Parity error or hardcrash with artifacts when using both memory slots in 3d games.

I narrowed it down to periods of high texture transfer to the card.
I used only lenovo memory, and had it replaced.
I never found it to be a thermal issue.

This was finally fixed by a motherboard replacement. The same memory and CPU were transfered to the new motherboard, and it worked from there on out.

Hellbore · #127 Post by **Hellbore** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:59 pm

tyito2000 wrote:This appears to be a software issue ...

I appreciate your trying to help but I think you are mistaken, plus you don't have the same type of laptop as the rest of us do you? Yours has the Quadro NVS 140M graphics correct? That is not the same system being reported with these problems and is therefore probably irrelevant to this particular issue. Another question, do you even have two sticks of RAM? That is another specific element of this issue. If you don't have two sticks of RAM then you're in the wrong place because this issue is specific to that configuration.

I have been communicating back and forth with Lenovo and doing what I can to gather information on this issue for a couple months now, and I have not seen anything that would lead me to believe it was a software issue. I could be wrong of course, but...

Just to recap some of what we have seen so far:

- There is a specific issue to the T61P with Quadro FX 570M graphics, do not confuse this with other crashing issues the T61's have had. The particular issue I speak of is crashing / locking up / BSOD's etc. while running 3D-intensive applications such as games and 3D graphics tests, 3D rendering, CAD, etc. The issue also specifically covers running 2 sticks of memory, and most users have reported the ussue when using 4 gigs of RAM. There have been a few reports of this issue with 3 + 1 gigs of RAM as well.

There have been other T61 issues such as freezing when on battery power, random power-off while doing simple tasks, etc. These cross over into other models as well and most likely are a separate issue.

- We have reports from users with this issue in Vista 64 bit, vista 32 bit, XP, and even Linux. Operating system is not a common thread.

- The issue affects people with and without Turbo Memory. Turbo memory is not a common thread. There are OTHER issues with turbo memory crashes. Do not confuse those issues with this one. You can't lump all issues together into one. Just because some turbo memory drivers are buggy doesn't mean that explains every crash, especially since several of us don't even have turbo memory and still get the crash.

- The issue completely disappears if you remove 1 stick of RAM. The crashes go away completely and the programs that were crashing before now work fine. This, combined with the problem's persistance across different OS's, tend to suggest a hardware issue.

- A clean install of Windows doesn't solve the problem. I and several others have tried that. It makes no difference. Clean install, latest drivers, etc. No difference.

- At one point I collected more specific information from several other users from different forums who were having these same issues. I stopped keeping track because the numbers have grown, there are so many of us now. Here's some information I collected. I'm not posting people's names here for privacy reasons.

Vista 32 bit, Vista 64 bit, XP 32 bit, and Linux were all on the list of operating systems having this problem.

Some of the types of ram reported with this crash:
2 x G.SKILL F2-5300CL5D-4GBSA
2 x Lenovo FRU 40y7735
2 x 2gb Crucial DDR2 667mhz RAM
2 x Lenovo 2GB (didn't know FRU)
1 2gb stick of Lenovo RAM (Hynix) + 1 2gb stick of Crucial RAM (Micron)
2 2gb sticks of OCZ DDR2 667mhz RAM
4gb Lenovo (came with laptop, didn't know FRU)
4gb Lenovo (came with laptop, didn't know FRU)

All users who reported their BIOS version had the latest one, v1.22-1.06

Many different graphics driver versions were reported, practically every version in existance including Lenovo's latest and various Laptopvideo2go versions. There wasn't a common thread for graphics driver version.

3 users reported they had turbo memory, 3 reported they didn't have it, so this wasn't a common thread.

Resolutions reported:
8 users reported no resolution found yet
2 users reported SOLVED: Sent to depot, depot replaced planar card
1 user reported SOLVED: Sent to depot, depot replaced planar card and CPU

Some of the problem descriptions given:
3D graphics programs crash, but machine passes memtest86 and PC wizard system tests. Sometimes machine powers itself off during games. Also got error "NMI: Parity check/Memory parity error"
MAYA and other 3D programs crash, but machine passes memtest86
3D graphics programs crash, but machine passes memtest86
When running workbench multisim 10.0, the system will completely power off. Machine doesn't feel like it's very hot. Machine shuts down any time it is under very heavy use.
Any 3D intensive program causes machine to crash
Any 3D intensive program causes machine to crash
Any heavy performance stress on the system causes it to crash. Problem persists with 1 1gb lenovo RAM stick + 1 2gb Lenovo RAM stick, or with 2 2gb sticks
Any heavy performance stres on the system causes random crashes, but machine passes memtest86 and PC wizard system tests
3D graphics programs crash, but machine passes memtest86 EVEN WHEN RUN OVERNIGHT
Games cause the machine to crash in both Windows and Linux
Games cause machine to crash. Also got error message "NMI: Parity check/Memory parity error"

Comments added by some users:
Most common error is "nvlddmkm.sys has stopped responding". Problem persists with 2 2gb sticks OR with 1 2gb stick and 1 1gb stick. Removing 1 stick of RAM makes problem disappear
Most common error is "nvlddmkm.sys has stopped responding". Problem persists with 2 2gb sticks OR with 1 2gb stick and 1 1gb stick. Removing 1 stick of RAM makes problem disappear
Removing 1 stick of RAM makes problem disappear
When he contacted IBM tech support in Canada, they told him the fix was a new motherboard but he didn't want to send it in.
Removing 1 stick of RAM makes problem disappear
Removing 1 stick of RAM makes problem disappear. Machine was later repaired at depot. Depot replaced CPU and planar card, and also noted: "Bios/Embedded Controller updates prescribed on IBM support page were performced on your machine to ensure reliability and preformance efficiency"
He says after having his planar replaced, the machine works PERFECT and he can't make it crash no mattery what he tries.
Disabling PowerMizer appeared to make problems go away
Removing 1 stick of RAM makes problem disappear, ALSO running with 2 512meg sticks of Lenovo RAM makes problem disappear
Removing 1 stick of RAM makes problem disappear, ALSO running 2 1gb sticks of RAM or 1 2gb and 1 1gb stick seems to work fine
Removing 1 stick of RAM makes problem disappear

In sum, we haven't gotten anywhere, the issue is still a mystery. Did someone say Lenovo said they can't recreate the problem? Last I heard from them regarding my repair case was that their engineer ran 3DMark06 on my laptop which was having this issue, and it didn't crash, so he said "I couldn't reproduce the issue". That seemed like a somewhat half-hearted attempt, especially considering that 3DMark06 was not one of the programs that I had listed as causing me crashes. I have not heard any updates from them about testing since then, but I was assured they are trying to find the issue. I later found out this engineer was not in fact running the test on my laptop which was known to have issues. How did I know this? Because the laptop was at my house. They accidentally shipped it back to me instead of to the testing engineers. I don't know what machine he was using for testing. It is possible he was using a machine that didn't even have this issue to begin with.

I'm as hopeful as the rest of you that Lenovo will come up with a fix for this, but at the same time, we have to think about what we are going to do if they don't.

Hellbore · #128 Post by **Hellbore** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:03 pm

dodeca-t wrote:I also had very similar problems with a T60P.

Specifically, Blue Screen with NMI Parity error or hardcrash with artifacts when using both memory slots in 3d games.

I narrowed it down to periods of high texture transfer to the card.
I used only lenovo memory, and had it replaced.
I never found it to be a thermal issue.

This was finally fixed by a motherboard replacement. The same memory and CPU were transfered to the new motherboard, and it worked from there on out.

That is encouraging to hear that your issue was resolved with a replacement motherboard.

That makes you the 4th person I have heard from who had this same resolution, where new motherboard = problem solved.

This weekend I received a new T61P to replace my old one which was having these problems. I haven't put it through the paces yet to see if it crashes like the old one did. I hope it is indeed fixed.

At this point my gut feeling is the same as it was in the beginning, that there is a batch or several batches of defective motherboards out there. This seems to make sense considering there have been several reports of the problem being solved by a new motherboard.

I will test my new T61P and post my results as to whether it exhibits the issues my old one was having.

The funny thing is, even after dealing with a lot of issues with my T61P, I still think it's the best. They just need to fix a few nagging problems with it.

I have been using the T61P for a school project lately to crunch numbers and it is impressive. These T61P can sit there and crunch numbers at 100% CPU usage on both cores and with 2 to 3 gigabytes of RAM in use, for days at a time, and not suffer any instability whatsoever. However, throw a game at the T61P and it rolls over dead

abarbieri · #129 Post by **abarbieri** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:12 pm

Hello,

you can add Patriot PC2-5300 667MHz 2x2GB to the list of memory modules that show the problem.

I'm running Vista 32 on a T61p 6459-CTO (about a month old) T7700 with latest BIOS, NVIDIA drivers etc...

Hellbore · #130 Post by **Hellbore** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:15 pm

abarbieri wrote:Hello,

you can add Patriot PC2-5300 667MHz 2x2GB to the list of memory modules that show the problem.

I'm running Vista 32 on a T61p 6459-CTO (about a month old) T7700 with latest BIOS, NVIDIA drivers etc...

Thanks for posting. What games or programs have been causing crashes for you, and what kind of messages are you getting?

To Lenovo's credit, Mark Hopkins from Lenovo has been very helpful in doing whatever he can to get me through these problems, but he can't snap his fingers and have a solution to this issue. Customer service is doing a good job but there's only so much they can do, let's hope the engineers do their part and find a solution to this.

abarbieri · #131 Post by **abarbieri** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:26 pm

installed and playing 'Pirates of the Caribbean Online' (running in Windowed mode 1400x1050)

crashes:
- nvidia driver stopped responding, Vista recovered
- BSOD (nvidia driver)
- system total lock up, required a manual power reset

it seems to happen more frequently whilst at sea, but it does happen on land as well.

Hellbore · #132 Post by **Hellbore** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:31 pm

abarbieri wrote:installed and playing 'Pirates of the Caribbean Online' (running in Windowed mode 1400x1050)

crashes:
- nvidia driver stopped responding, Vista recovered
- BSOD (nvidia driver)
- system total lock up, required a manual power reset

it seems to happen more frequently whilst at sea, but it does happen on land as well.

Hmm sounds like more of the same. Did you try removing 1 stick of RAM to see if that solved it? (just to make sure it's the same error and not something else).

abarbieri · #133 Post by **abarbieri** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:45 pm

not yet but will try soon to validate further the theory.

tyito2000 · #134 Post by **tyito2000** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:11 pm

eom...

Hellbore · #135 Post by **Hellbore** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:55 pm

tyito2000 wrote:Hellbore, why don't you post your error log history. Every problem you have had is documented in your OS along with the failing app or reason. I do have two sticks of mem and have completely resolved the issue.

I may have missed it but I don't remember seeing you describe what exact issues you were having, or whether your issue responded to removing 1 stick of RAM. So far that has been the most definitive identifying factor. It is possible you are having different issues than the rest of us.

Hellbore · #136 Post by **Hellbore** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:57 pm

I can post my error log later, right now my T61P is completely tied up with number crunching for school. It's about half-way through a 24 hour or so run and I'm not going to interrupt it and start over.

Meanwhile, if you have had so much success fixing this problem, why don't you post some of the fixes that worked for you? Since so many of us are having nearly identical problems, it makes sense that some common fixes would work for various people.

tyito2000 · #137 Post by **tyito2000** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:02 pm

eom...

Hellbore · #138 Post by **Hellbore** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:25 pm

tyito2000 wrote:Hellbore,

You just posted then retracted your error log?

Anyways, I have already addressed your concern awhile ago. Your suggestions about posting fixes without proper diagnostics and troubleshooting are premature at best.

Yes, I was going to post the error log from the loaner T61P I have been using but I thought it would be better to wait and post the log from my original hard drive that has more errors on it going farther back. I actually have 3 T61P's.

That's OK though, if you're going to take an insulting tone then you can keep your dubious skills to yourself.

tyito2000 · #139 Post by **tyito2000** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:33 pm

eom...

Hellbore · #140 Post by **Hellbore** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:39 pm

tyito2000 wrote:Your the one with a broken machine???

Wow you're so helpful! Right, it's clearly my fault that my brand new T61P was defective, and then the next one they sent after that too... I'm to blame for the laptops crashing out of the box. It's because I didn't reset my IE7 code and set my APS to medium sensitivity right?

The guys at Lenovo had a good laugh over your "fix".

Everyone try his "fixes", I'm sure they will solve your problems. Meanwhile I will wait for a real fix.

#141 Post by **JaneL** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:40 pm

Both of you, knock it off.

tyito2000 · #142 Post by **tyito2000** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:27 pm

eom...

#143 Post by **erik** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:32 pm

tyito2000 wrote:Mike (Helbore),

I have tried to help you out. You're the one who wanted the quick fixes. I told you what I was working on. I don't appreciate your attitude.

I have now reliably resolved the issue with several other T61s and T61Ps. It's such a simple fix.

Lenovo's engineers will just tell you the same thing and you will never be happy. Anything I say, will just be twisted and misquoted by by you. So, I will go my way with my T61 and T61P.

I will not contribute to this thread anymore.

you have yet to state exactly what the fix is.

all you're doing is instigating conflict by avoiding what seemed to be a very simple request by other forum members. if you cannot contribute then i wish you luck elsewhere.

Hellbore · #144 Post by **Hellbore** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:01 pm

Well, my new T61P arrived this weekend while I was out of town. I got home today and unwrapped it and put it through the paces.

My original T61P always crashed when playing Bioshock. While waiting for my replacement, I have been using my original hard drive in the loaner laptop, with all my programs and settings. I just tried playing Bioshock on that laptop yesterday and it crashed after just a couple of minutes. Bioshock wasn't the only 3D app that would crash but it was the quickest one to crash.

Anyway, today I opened up my new replacement T61P and simply placed my original hard drive into it. No settings were changed, this is the same OS, software, and drivers that have been crashing before. Well, in the NEW laptop, I fired up Bioshock and it did not crash. I played for about an hour, that's all I had time for.

Not only did it not crash, it appeared to run faster and smoother than either my original laptop, or the loaner laptop I have been using, despite the fact that the system specs of all 3 are roughtly the same (original was T7800, loaner was T7700, new one is T7800, all 3 have the Quadro 570M).

Anyway, I don't want to celebrate too soon, but... that's not all. Lately Windows Explorer has been freezing and has to be restarted. New laptop, same old hard drive... no more Windows Explorer freezing.

I hope it keeps working like this! It's like a whole different animal, everything feels so fast.

I'm going to run PCMark06, I wouldn't be surprised if this new one benchmarks faster. OK I guess I would be a little surprised

Anyways, I need to keep using it and playing more games, make sure I didn't just get lucky today with no crashes...

Another little bonus, when set next to the old laptop, the new one's screen is noticeably brighter

The colors don't appear as rich however. Maybe the new one is the Samsung screen? I need to check the parts lookup. I definitely like the new brighter screen better, I can see easier now.

Oh another thing... the keyboard is nicer. The old one went clackitty-clack. The new one makes quiet "thud thud" sounds when typing. I wonder if they said "Hey make sure and send him a good T61P since he's been waiting so long" lol...

I looked around trying to see if there was anything different about this new laptop but I can't see anything. The BIOS settings are the same as I have used in the past. The BIOS version is 1.26 [7LET56WW] dated 2007-10-18 and the other version number in the BIOS screen, I forgot what it's called, is 1.06. Those are the current versions right?

The only other difference I noticed was the new laptop does not have the misaligned pink thermal pad atop the GPU heatsink. Both my original laptop and the loaner laptop had the thermal pad offset by a few mm. On the new laptop it is dead center lined up with the heatsink.

I have seen photographs other people have taken of T61P's disassembled and it's curious to see the same thermal pad shifted to the right by the same amount. It almost makes you wonder if there was some misalignment in the assembly line that has been corrected since then.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with this issue but it would be interesting to hear how many people have the misaligned thermal pad under the keyboard and how many people have it aligned perfectly.

Also, someone had said that this pad was possibly not a for thermal transfer but for electrical insulation purposes. I doubt that, because I have seen what appears to be identical material used as a thermal transfer pad between the GPU and the heatsink on a couple different laptops. It may also function as cushioning but I'm fairly sure the material is designed to transfer heat as well.

#145 Post by **erik** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:31 pm

Hellbore wrote:Not only did it not crash, it appeared to run faster and smoother than either my original laptop, or the loaner laptop I have been using, despite the fact that the system specs of all 3 are roughtly the same (original was T7800, loaner was T7700, new one is T7800, all 3 have the Quadro 570M).

that's great news!

could the loaner have been slower due to having less memory installed under vista? i can't see the processor having such a noticeable difference.

Hellbore wrote:Another little bonus, when set next to the old laptop, the new one's screen is noticeably brighter The colors don't appear as rich however. Maybe the new one is the Samsung screen? I need to check the parts lookup. I definitely like the new brighter screen better, I can see easier now.

the LG is anecdotally brighter so perhaps you now have an LG?

Hellbore wrote:The BIOS version is 1.26 [7LET56WW] dated 2007-10-18 and the other version number in the BIOS screen, I forgot what it's called, is 1.06. Those are the current versions right?

1.26-1.06 is the newest BIOS/controller version.

Hellbore · #146 Post by **Hellbore** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:56 pm

erik wrote:that's great news! could the loaner have been slower due to having less memory installed under vista?

Actually, the loaner had 4gb of Lenovo ram as well! Lenovo, or Mark specifically, was awesome he got me a loaner with 4 gigs of RAM so I could get the high performance I was used to.

I'll do the parts lookup and see which screen I have.

I just ran 3DMark06, score 3989, that's pretty decent for this GPU right?

#147 Post by **erik** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:07 pm

as much as that makes me want a T7800, i'll put my cash toward a new thinkpad after the nehalem refresh.

definitely let me know which screen you have. i'd like to put the whole LG vs. samsung debate to rest -- at least in the WUXGA department. fwiw, i have a samsung and am very happy with it.

i've never run any of the 3dmark tests so i have no idea on that result. but, i'm sure it's fine.

tyito2000 · #148 Post by **tyito2000** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:14 pm

Sounds like Hellbore got a special delivery from DHL on Sunday. Anyways, since Hellbore got his dream, I have deleted all of the messages and work I have done on this thread.

Hellbore · #149 Post by **Hellbore** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:19 pm

OK I checked it, the FRU of the new screen is 42T0329 which makes it a Samsung screen.

I have my original T61P right here as well, so I can look at them side by side. I looked up the FRU on my original T61P (not the loaner) and it had the LG screen.

The LG screen has richer colors, but the Samsung is definitely brighter. Very noticeable to me.

The LG has a more blueish cast to it, the samsung when I turn the brightness down has a more yellowish cast to it. Interesting...

At any rate, I think in all honesty the LG screen has richer more vibrant colors, but this Samsung is brighter and I can read it easier. I think the LG colors are almost too saturated, maybe not quite realistic.

From what I have heard, the Samsung screens vary, right? I mean, some people got Samsung screens that were horrible. This one seems good to me, I noticed right away that it was brighter and easier to read.

As for light leakage, that's a tough one, neither screen is great in that area, but it's not something I really notice. I don't see much difference between the two.

SnakeJW · #150 Post by **SnakeJW** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:20 pm

So I guess sending in the machine to the depot and having the motherboard replaced is the thing to do now.

T61p graphics problems

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