What is IBM/Lenovo's Return Policy?

[johnvndnbrk]

Hello:

Does anyone know what the return policy is for notebook purchases direct from Lenovo.com? Specifically:

1) If a customer believes a notebook was shipped in error, for example, because of an issue with the website and not receiving a confirmation or communication email from lenovo, are they still responsible for the return shipping costs?

2) If a notebook is returned within the 21 day period but was opened, is the customer responsible for both the shipping costs and the 15% restocking fee?

This is currently the situation that I am in and does not seem to be consistent with Lenovo's posted return policy.

Thanks!

John

[ocellaris]

http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/cont ... rns_policy

If you open the package, you will get charged 15% restocking fee. If the package is unopened, you should get a full refund.

As far as return shipping goes on something you received however you feel you did not order it, that would be up to the rep on the phone since it is not listed in their policy.

[mattbiernat]

not receiving a confirmation or communication email from lenovo,

that happened to me once. i called lenovo and asked for specific configuration. that rep on the other line however changed it a bit to give me XGA, no bluetooth, no dedicated video card etc... if you opened to box then you will have to go throught a lot of calls to get back the money or get an exchange.

[ocellaris]

Well here goes... Lenovo has TWO return policies on their website. The first is the one I linked above. Then they have a 2nd and completely non matching return policy listed under the terms and conditions. You know that little checkbox at the end of you purchase that says "I agree to the terms and conditions", well, if you click the link there it brings up about 10 pages of fine print and hidden in there is...

3. Return Policy

For a new Product that is unopened and still in it's sealed package, you may return it to Lenovo for any reason within 21 days of the date of invoice and obtain a refund or credit. Lenovo does not provide refunds or credits for portions of a packaged offering provided at a single price or for preloaded Programs installed by Lenovo. You may return the complete package for a refund or credit. To qualify for this credit or refund (as applicable), you must call Lenovo at 1-866-42-THINK (1-866-428-4465) to obtain a return-authorization form. You must return the new Product, including all documentation and accessories, intact and in its unopened original packaging, to a Lenovo designated location by the date Lenovo specifies. A copy of the invoice, the return-authorization form, and the shipping label must accompany the return. Shipping and handling charges generally will not be refunded or credited. Products returned may be subject to a restocking fee equal to 15% of the price paid. You agree to pay the restocking fee as Lenovo specifies. Products purchased through the Lenovo Employee Purchase Program are not eligible for return.

If you acquired a Program separate from a Machine, and paid a license fee, you may return the Program within 21 days of the date of invoice and obtain a refund or credit, if you do not agree to the license terms provided with the Program.

I gotta say that is pretty horrible to have two non matching return policies. Good product, questionable policies

[Tholek]

I just want to add that if it's a gift as well, only the person who paid for it can return it.

[ryengineer]

I gotta say that is pretty horrible to have two non matching return policies. Good product, questionable policies

Rephrasing few sentences do not mean changing the policy. Lenovo do have separate return policy and terms and conditions for associated individual products and offerings but not in this case.

If the OP's request were handled by a more understanding and professional rep, he could've got his restocking fee waived and shipping cost credited.

[rukiri]

I'm sorry ry, I don't mean to argue with you, but I feel compelled to share my very different personal experience.

The OP stated that he ordered by some mistake, received the machine, opened the box, and now wants to return it.

OP, if you ever find a CSR that would let you return that machine w/o restocking fee w/o paying for shipping, WRITE THAT NAME DOWN! Get their e-mail addy, their extension number, their office location, and beg them to never quit Lenovo CS for as long as you own your laptop.

In my experience, Lenovo is *very* strict with returns now and unwilling to make exceptions due to any circumstance, even if it is their own fault, until you make it advantageous for them to be kind to you by filing a complaint with the BBB or the like.

[tomh009]

The restocking fee for opened boxes is very much understandable in my opinion. Even if the system may never even have been turned on, an opened box cannot be sold as new. (It's bad enough selling custom CTO configurations that were returned unopened.) At the minimum, Lenovo has to have someone inspect and verify that the system is still in factory condition, and that all the accessories are still in the kit, and repackage in a new box.

Once you drive a new car off the dealer's lot, it's usually non-returnable, too ...

[johnvndnbrk]

Thank you, Rukiri & Tomh009

I believe that I was a bit frazzled at the time I posted this. After informing the Lenovo's Customer Rep. that 3 unexpected and unopened notebooks were shipped, I was told that I would be responsible for both the shipping and a 15% restocking fee. I later had this reduced to simply the shipping costs after a few hours of bickering.

In my opinion, Lenovo's return policy indirectly says one of two things; "We do not want to deal with the crap we sell to our customers" OR "We do not want to deal with our crappy customers - those who think they can open something and expect to return it." To this extent I believe my opinion is more inline with Rukiri. (Sorry, Tomh009, I understand you but my opinion is simply what it is.)

In contrast, I was much more comfortable with IBM's return policy which to me seemed to give the customer the benefit of the doubt. My opinion of IBM was that they believed most of their customers do want to purchase and keep their equipment, but that they would extend their good graces to those who felt the need to return something they've opened, as long as it was within a reasonable period of time (i.e. 30 days). I was much more proud to be an IBM customer and was too eager to brag about them and my Thinkpad to my peers. Now I am a bit embarrassed even discuss the subject, even with my DELL loving friends.

John

[tomh009]

A company can choose to accept opened boxes without a restocking fee. However, that means that (1) it will get more returns, often from people who order multiple systems intending to return all but one (yes, I know this is not the case for you!) and (2) it will have to bear the cost of testing the returned systems and possibly selling them as refurbs or open stock at a lower price.

So, everything else being equal, a company with this policy will have to charge a somewhat higher price for its systems than a company that charges a restocking fee. Which one would you prefer -- a lower price or returns without a restocking fee?

[johnvndnbrk]

A company can choose to accept opened boxes without a restocking fee. However, that means that (1) it will get more returns, often from people who order multiple systems intending to return all but one (yes, I know this is not the case for you!) and (2) it will have to bear the cost of testing the returned systems and possibly selling them as refurbs or open stock at a lower price.

So, everything else being equal, a company with this policy will have to charge a somewhat higher price for its systems than a company that charges a restocking fee. Which one would you prefer -- a lower price or returns without a restocking fee?

This is my point. To keep this simple what Lenovo is saying to you, me, and any one else who purchases a notebook is that all sales are final. Who would agree to return a notebook for a 15% restocking fee? If anyone has the stats on this I would love to know the percentage. I know that a company is not obligated to accept returns. I also know that they would not exist for long. Imagine if BestBuy or Circuit City did so.

The comparison with driving a car off a lot is also inaccurate but on different grounds. An auto dealer is obligated by federal law to allow a person 3 days to return a car they purchased and drove off the lot. I have never met someone who did so, though.

I do not want to be mean but you would not make a good CEO. Your concerns about higher prices would be irrelevant w/o a customer base.

John

[milesrbruce]

I have a T60P. I called Dell to order a M4300. I made sure, BEFORE I ordered it to make sure the return policy. I went as far as asking, when I get the machine, if I don't like the screen, if it is to heavy, etc. can I return it with no questions asked. They said YES, so I placed the order.

When I got the machine. The screen was not HALF as good as my T60P. It was also quite a bit heavier then my T60P. I called them and went thru the return. They offered me a $150 store credit to keep it. I said no. They offered me a 19" monitor to keep it. I said no. I told them I just wanted to return it for a full refund. They said fine. 5 minutes later I had my return number and UPS info. to send it back. PAINLESS AND NO 15%.

I must say the rest of the machine was very nice. Nice build. If the screen was half as good as my T60P (14") I would have kept it.

[johnvndnbrk]

I have a T60P. I called Dell to order a M4300. I made sure, BEFORE I ordered it to make sure the return policy. I went as far as asking, when I get the machine, if I don't like the screen, if it is to heavy, etc. can I return it with no questions asked. They said YES, so I placed the order.

When I got the machine. The screen was not HALF as good as my T60P. It was also quite a bit heavier then my T60P. I called them and went thru the return. They offered me a $150 store credit to keep it. I said no. They offered me a 19" monitor to keep it. I said no. I told them I just wanted to return it for a full refund. They said fine. 5 minutes later I had my return number and UPS info. to send it back. PAINLESS AND NO 15%.

I must say the rest of the machine was very nice. Nice build. If the screen was half as good as my T60P (14") I would have kept it.

I am quite surprised that DELL did this for you since they basically have the same return policy as Lenovo. You make a good point, though. As consumers we don't often have the opportunity to get the feel for or a good look at the Notebook(s) we have in mind to buy. Since DELL and Lenovo do not have brick and mortar stores, they save a ton of money and should cut all of us a 15% "retail store avoidance" rebate check. I'm obviously joking but if there is an arguement that can be made for the fees charged due to restocking of equipment, than perhaps a rebate check is in order.

Also, don't fall for the "...poor Lenovo is stuck with a customized notebook" schpeel. These units are sold under the "order today ship today" section and after their shipping nightmares of only a few months ago actually benefit from us terrible customers who dared return a custom order.

It sounds like DELL will work with their customers, which sounds like a change for the better. I still think they sell an inferior product, but perhaps this helps to explain to a small extent why there are so many of them in the workplace.

John

[tomh009]

I do not want to be mean but you would not make a good CEO. Your concerns about higher prices would be irrelevant w/o a customer base.

I was merely pointing out the tradeoff -- there is no free lunch here. Every business cost comes into play in business planning, and open-box returns are definitely a cost.

But I'll keep your advice in mind should I ever think about a CEO position. Clearly you understanding of business dynamics is far superior to mine.

[mattbiernat]

all sales are final.
John

seems very fair until you open your box and find out that the computer you got is not the one that you told the rep you wanted to get. until lenovo reps become a bit more professional and make less mistakes (i had 3 mistakes in one order) their return policy is very unfair.

I've noticed that reps who make mistakes don't usually send you confirmation emails or if they do their confirmation emails are incomplete. seems shady buisness....

[johnvndnbrk]

I do not want to be mean but you would not make a good CEO. Your concerns about higher prices would be irrelevant w/o a customer base.

I was merely pointing out the tradeoff -- there is no free lunch here. Every business cost comes into play in business planning, and open-box returns are definitely a cost.

But I'll keep your advice in mind should I ever think about a CEO position. Clearly you understanding of business dynamics is far superior to mine.

It is my policy to apologize when I have been rude, and am sorry for the unwarrented dig. I do understand your point and agree there are some who will take advantage of return policies. I've heard of people who bougth camcorders for their vacation, literally returning the item after their trip. On the other hand, I just told my wife that the cloths purchased for our son are too big, so she's out the door to get a smaller size. I do not think that it is unreasonable to return an open item for something as expensive as a notebook, but again this is my opinion and has worked successfully for companies like IBM in the past, as it continues to do so for retail stores today. I sell my thinkpads (and other stuff) on eBay and always have a "no sale is ever final" return policy under the UID of KimNJohn98 (100% pos. feedback - here is an example, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... :IT&ih=003). I simply prefer to error on the side that gives the buyer the benefit of the doubt, both because I believe most people are honest and when they bid/purchase from me they will commit and be reasonable, and it does draw the kinder side of a person's disposition which tends to give me a better opportunity at making a good sale.

John

[JaneL]

On the other hand, I just told my wife that the cloths purchased for our son are too big, so she's out the door to get a smaller size.

That's not a fair comparison since the store can sell the returned clothing as new assuming your son has only tried them on. Once opened, Lenovo can't sell a notebook as new.

Regardless, I thought your issues were all resolved?

[johnvndnbrk]

On the other hand, I just told my wife that the cloths purchased for our son are too big, so she's out the door to get a smaller size.

That's not a fair comparison since the store can sell the returned clothing as new assuming your son has only tried them on. Once opened, Lenovo can't sell a notebook as new.

Regardless, I thought your issues were all resolved?

I was explaining two extremes in how return policies can hurt and help a company ... of course I wasn't trying to compare returning clothes to computer returns - good grief!

Yeah, all my issues are resolved so I'll stop posting.

[JaneL]

Yeah, all my issues are resolved so I'll stop posting.

I didn't mean you had to stop posting - I was just confused.

[rukiri]

I think the issue in general is worth discussing if people are interested.

You're absolutely right tomh, there is no free lunch. Back when IBM offered no-hassle returns it did cost them money. It was a service that IBM offered that they certainly did not have to, that was part of why people liked IBM. They were above average. They had service that was above the norm, more than you would expect from most businesses.

Sadly, that is no longer the case. It is the disparity, the fall from what was, that makes this new Lenovo so infuriating for some. Not that the old IBM was all saints and angels.. but I think most of us would agree that the new Lenovo offers a more competitively priced product that comes with some tradeoffs compared with the past.

[tomh009]

You're absolutely right tomh, there is no free lunch. Back when IBM offered no-hassle returns it did cost them money. It was a service that IBM offered that they certainly did not have to, that was part of why people liked IBM. They were above average. They had service that was above the norm, more than you would expect from most businesses.

I agree -- but they also consistently lost money in the PC business. I believe Lenovo has taken some of those lessons to heart.

Sadly, that is no longer the case. It is the disparity, the fall from what was, that makes this new Lenovo so infuriating for some. Not that the old IBM was all saints and angels.. but I think most of us would agree that the new Lenovo offers a more competitively priced product that comes with some tradeoffs compared with the past.

Right. And each person has to evaluate those tradeoffs. For the issue of not being able to examine a ThinkPad in advance, there is always the option of finding a local reseller, who can often demonstrate units and may also be able to provide more flexible return policies (on standard configurations, mind you, not CTO units).

[milesrbruce]

Lenovo's return policy is 21 days unopened, no charge. Opened, 15% restocking fee.

Dell's return policy, 30 days NO RESTOCKING FEE, no matter what the reason.

I verified it BEFORE I purchased the M4300 unit. When I called to return it, it was confirmed again. Aafter reviewing the M4300 unit to my T60P, I can tell you the quality of there build is no less than Lenovo. I bought Dell for years, then 4 years ago began buying Thinkpads. I can clearly see the Lenovo build quality deteriateing from IBM. Dell has made great strides and is right there. If the screen quality was as good as my T60P 14", I would have kept the Dell.

[ocellaris]

Lenovo's return policy is 21 days unopened, no charge. Opened, 15% restocking fee.

No, read the above links. The Lenovo return policy is 21 days unopened -> 15% restocking fee. Opened -> no return. This applies to CTO systems and the purchaser is only informed of this under "terms and conditions" on the last checkbox of the last screen before you make the purchase.

[ocellaris]

I gotta say that is pretty horrible to have two non matching return policies. Good product, questionable policies

Rephrasing few sentences do not mean changing the policy. Lenovo do have separate return policy and terms and conditions for associated individual products and offerings but not in this case.

If the OP's request were handled by a more understanding and professional rep, he could've got his restocking fee waived and shipping cost credited.

It is not "rephrasing", the policies listed are different. One (website) clearly states that a product can be returned for a refund, and if that package is opened, there is a 15% restocking fee. Any consumer will rightfully assume that "refund" oh an unopened product is a 100% refund in this case (minus shipping).

The other (terms and conditions) says that only unopened products can be returned, and all will be subject to a 15% restocking fee. That is two different policies.

[ryengineer]

The other (terms and conditions) says that only unopened products can be returned, and all will be subject to a 15% restocking fee. That is two different policies.

Lenovo states:

Products returned may be subject to a restocking fee equal to 15% of the price paid.

Under what conditions, return policy will inform you, if in doubt one should always contact 1-866-96-THINK for further clarification and if you hear reps say something you believe you've better information about or find anything incoherent with what you read on the website you should always point them out. Lenovo always hire qualified personnel but at times they can mix-up things about in and post-practice policies.

I believe the OP's problem has been solved now too.

[SkiBunny]

I've heard many anecdotes in 2007 about Lenovo not refunding your c/card, and charging it after you've cancelled etc. Sadly, I can personally attest to having the same experiences this year.

Getting Lenovo to agree to refund an unopened stock item you return is one hurdle; but then getting the actual credit is an even bigger hurdle. It used to be much, much better and easier in years past.

[BillMorrow]

in the FWIW column..

my 6 cell T60p battery (1 year, 5 months old) crapped out the other day..
just dies..

power manager said it was damaged and irrepairable..

after 2 emails i was told to go to the lenovo web site and check to see if it was elligible for replacement in SPITE of the 1 year warranty being 5 month past..
i did and it WAS..
two days later a new battery arrives..
how can this be.. ?
the battery was 17 months old and should have been way out of warranty..

i was told "yeah, but lenovo has extended the warranty on these as some were faulty"..

that sure is good customer service..

in the matter of returning a new thinkpad..
when i was selling new thinkpads, "all sales are final" was the return policy..
mostly due to some people having "buyers remorse" or discovering one stuck on pixel..
if i took a new thinkpad back for such a reason i would have been broke, fast..

if lenovo shipped the wrong product or shipped three (did i read that in this thread?) when you ordered only one, they should take them back, no cost, no question..

if you ordered one and got three then you sure should not open all three..

and..

you can always return the product and dispute the credit card charge..

[DranK]

Products returned may be subject to a restocking fee equal to 15% of the price paid.

Grey areas of Lenovo's return policy

[ocellaris]

I am not going to consider Lenovo saying that there "may" be a restocking fee for anything an easy out for them here. In the shopping FAQ, when considered in plain English, its pretty clear that the restocking fee is for opened merchandise.

I have no problem with Lenovo charging the fee for any return that is not due to their error. Take a look at how much stuff people send back to Dell and it can be downright horrible. However I do think it is misleading for them to leave the shopping FAQ the way it is.

[johnvndnbrk]

if you ordered one and got three then you sure should not open all three..

and..

you can always return the product and dispute the credit card charge..

I would prefer not to have to dispute charges. I received four but opened the one I received the order confirmation for. I was helped by a member of your message board and am very happy things worked out.

It would be interesting if Lenovo offered "Buyers Remorse" insurance up front. For example, for an extra $100 you can return unopened or opened items within 21 or 30 days of receipte w/o incurring a 15% restocking fee (assuming the notebook was free of any user damage). And if you do not return the notebook the $100 could extent the warranty 3mos, etc (just pulling numbers out of the air for example sake). How does Lenovo entice first time buyers who may not have had the opportunity to use a Thinkpad at work or via a friend. If they trusted CNET reviews all they would buy would be DELLs and Toshibas.

Lenovo's return policy is very much like DELLs unless you live in Canada, which sounds more like IBM and has in part:

For a new IBM Machine, you may return it to IBM for any reason within 30 days of the date of invoice and obtain a refund or credit. IBM does not provide refunds or credits for portions of a packaged offering provided at a single price. You may return the complete package for a refund or credit.

To qualify for this credit or refund (as applicable), you must call IBM at 1-800-426-2255 to obtain a return-authorization form. You must return the new IBM Machine, including all documentation and accessories, intact and in its original packaging, to an IBM designated location by the date IBM specifies.

Which is a bit different than Lenovo US.

John