Fix for USB 2.0 problem other than mb replacement?

[devildog2067]

I have a T40 with a number of minor cosmetic issues (cracked palmrest, loose screw for power adapter, 2 broken keys etc). I have two weeks off from needing it for work, so I've decided to tackle all of these issues at once.

The only serious functionality issue I have is that the USB 2.0 is intermittent. It does work occasionally, which gives me hope that rather than needing a new MB I might be able to fix it by touching up a few solder joints. I did a few searches but was unable to find the topic, I'm fairly certain that attempting repair has been discussed before.

Anyone have any idea if this is workable? Thanks.

[Harryc]

The only fix I've ever run across for the T4X USB 2.0 problem is a systemboard replacement. The palmrest and keyboard can be bought on EBay for cheap. I'm fairly sure the power jack is not screwed in, but rather soldered onto the systemboard. You may have luck asking a member here to sell you a T4x systemboard, try the markeplace forum.

[GomJabbar]

You can also buy a PCMCIA Cardbus USB 2.0 adapter for the PC card slot.

[xyz]

power jack is a plug in module, if it is loose will just need the screw tightening

[atanasoff]

Exactly what do you mean by the USB 2.0 issue? USB 2.0 has never worked on my T40p, and I thought that was a design limitation. I have a very short time left on my warranty, so if it's fixable I need to be quick! How can I tell if I have the type of issue which is fixed by sys board replacement??

[SHoTTa35]

the T4x series comes with USB 2.0. So if it doesn't work for you then get your mobo replace if you still have warranty.

[FTC]

Well, the USB2 problem is reportedly caused by motherboard flexing, which in turn makes some solder points of the ICs to 'disconnect of become 'cold joints''. just like the 'known' GPU failing problem.

For the latter, some adventurous souls have successfully attempted to reflow the GPU. You can see a video :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vR8L3B3e ... ed&search=

So I guess for the USB problem one could attempt to do the same with the northbridge/southbridge.. of course it is *very* risky and success is not granted, but... you asked for it.

[atanasoff]

Well, the USB2 problem is reportedly caused by motherboard flexing, which in turn makes some solder points of the ICs to 'disconnect of become 'cold joints''. just like the 'known' GPU failing problem.

For the latter, some adventurous souls have successfully attempted to reflow the GPU. You can see a video :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vR8L3B3e ... ed&search=

So I guess for the USB problem one could attempt to do the same with the northbridge/southbridge.. of course it is *very* risky and success is not granted, but... you asked for it.

I wonder if we are referring to the same problem. My USB behaves as USB 1 - works fine in that capacity. When I attach a USB 2 device I get the message "this device would work faster if attached to USB 2". That doesn't _sound_ like bad solder joints.

[FTC]

Well,

For all I've read it *looks* like indeed the flaky USB2.0 behavior *is* caused by the flexing thing.. I agree it seems rare, and I don't recall a specific component / connector has been identified yet as the one with the flaky solder points.. One thing you could do is just remove keyboard and try *pressing* a bit on top of the north/southbridges so see if behavior changes a bit, since my understanding is that this odd USB behavior is most times also intermittent.

Sorry I can not help further... fortunately my thinkpads do not exhibit this sympthoms (even if the T40 *does* now have the graphics problem).

[venro]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vpwXVplF4io

This is interesting...

I have T40p also with this problem, but I don't have to flex the mobo. Let's say after 5 minutes devices automatically switch to 1.1 (and of course my process data is stopped, [censored])

On my other laptop, T40, it's only seconds. That's weird

[dcouzin]

My USB 2.0 problem, which was similar to those described here, was not fixed by the first warranty motherboard replacement, but by a second motherboard replacement. I believe it is always a hardware problem, although so flaky that it interacts elusively with software. Since the successful replacement I've been careful not to attach hard drives without their own power supplies and careful not to flex the thin T42. These were cautions proposed on this board, and easy to follow even if unconvincing. I've had perfect working USB 2.0 for four months now. If it blows again after my warranty ends (November) I'll use the cardbus for USB 2.0. The cardbus cost less than the DHL overnight to the Repair Center here.

[vadarfone]

Hi guys. Sorry to dredge up an old subject.

I have a problem with my USB ports on my T42.

This morning, my T42 just powered off with no warning. It didnt attempt to shut down, but literally the screen just went blank. I couldnt turn it on for ages, but it eventually powered up again.

Now, the USB ports dont work. I can plug a mouse into a port and get a power supply to the mouse (the light comes on, on the mouse), but it doesnt work.

The mouse doesnt recognize at all.

I have tried USB memory sticks with this, an external hard disk etc and all fail to recognize.

Any ideas what I can do to get this working again? I really really need USB functionality!

If worst comes to the worst, would I be able to use a PCMCIA USB convertor?? I read on a different forum that someone tried this and it didnt work... Hmmm.

Any advice would be great.

[rkawakami]

This is the latest thread that popped up here a couple of days ago:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=69367

It refers to the "southbridge" chip that is soldered onto the motherboard as being loose (I don't know the exact Intel part number). I don't know if that would also explain your sudden power loss and failure to re-start. That type of problem sounds more like an overheating situation.

[vadarfone]

Hi again.

Thanks for the info.

Seeing as this thread is longer and has more info in it, I will post what I find here...

Ok, so I went to the local electronics store and got a PCMCIA to USB converter. It works fine, although it look a long time to recognise.

There was a rumour going round on a few other forums that the PCMCIA to USB converter would not work if the internal USB ports were fried.

This is not the case. It works fine.

[beeblebrox]

Hi again.

Thanks for the info.

Seeing as this thread is longer and has more info in it, I will post what I find here...

Ok, so I went to the local electronics store and got a PCMCIA to USB converter. It works fine, although it look a long time to recognise.

There was a rumour going round on a few other forums that the PCMCIA to USB converter would not work if the internal USB ports were fried.

This is not the case. It works fine.

you can fix the USB 2.0 problem exactly the same way like fixing the GPU problem: a heat gun with 230°C and heating the southbridge, which is just next to the GPU. Those 2 large chips often lose faith to the motherboard and go their own way. heating them up und putting a little tea light on it to put some little pressure helps to restore it.

That way I fixed about a dozen T40 thinkpads btw.

[Rossano]

Hi all (especially beeblebrox)!

I'm new here, but this forum already gave me a lot of valuable information.

I have problems with USB. It always switches from 2.0 speed to 1.1. Working on that speed is suffering. But... when I strongly press my T41 between TrackPoint and touchpad, the USB suddenly switches back to full speed 2.0. However, only for few minutes.
Problem is analyzed thanks to this forum and ThinkWiki: Southbridge chip is loose (unsoldered). There is insufficient contact between motherboard and southbridge chip. Repairing in service center is nonsense - it's too expensive compared with age of IBM T41. Moreover, I don't want to buy new notebook, because my T41 is my love. So, I'm going to repair it myself. Exactly - I'm going to reflow the southbridge.

I've disassembled/assembled many notebooks, so there won't be problem with disassembling my T41, but where is the southbridge and how to reflow motherboard? I guess it's the large chip next to the GPU. I'm afraid of melting plastic parts, eventually of overheating and damaging whole motherboard. I've never done that, so are there any fatal hazards? I have only one guide how to reflow, on youtube - HERE. Is this guide sufficient?
Finally, I have all required tools. Heat gun is high-quality brand - BlackDecker, but I don't know, what temperature it emits...

Thank you for any advice!

[Norway Pad]

Uhm..

Not to be blunt or rude, but since you are asking this question here in the first place, I would say: Don't even try. There is a big risk you will damage your T41. There is an excellent reflowing service advertised here on the forum, so if you want to keep your T41, contact them and have them do the job for you.

Judging from what I have read about trying to reflow on your own, with a heat gun, there are very mixed results. Some succeed, others work for a while, and some never work at all afterwards. Some kind of temperature gauge is needed, as the temperature band here is very narrow, too high temperature will damage other things, to low/uneven temperature will not reflow all the balls, etc.

Maybe others who have actually tried this can give better advice, and maybe this isn't that much a game of luck as I imagine it is, but this is my advice..

[billp117]

putting a little tea light on it to put some little pressure helps to restore it.

??? Can you explain further?

OK...I found your earlier post. A hot air gun would be a good solution also. However I just shipped a T43p V3200 ATI board to GPMedics...will see how they do for the $30 reball process.

[poshgeordie]

Double post - deleted

[poshgeordie]

I'm not looking for new business - we've got more than enough work on - but reblling the chip is the only way to guarantee a permanent repair for the problem.

As a reminder, reballing is removing the chip, replacing the solder balls and then resoldering (reflowing) the chip back onto the board.

We see a lot of boards where people have attempted to repair the chips using hot air guns and the board and chip have either ended up blackened with too much heat - the board has then to be trashed - or have worked for a very short time needing to have the process repeated with the attendant risks.

With great respect the idea of using a Tea Light candle to heat up the chip to melt the solder balls underneath has been tried since forever and the results are mixed to put it mildly. The southbridge is very easy to blow out with too much concentrated heat on the substrate that causes the internal subminiature solder joints to "pop corn" out as tiny solder balls.

When we reball, the temperatures are strictly monitored during every part of the process and the risk of damage at any stage is virtually eliminated. Also there's a 90 day peace of mind warranty however it's unlikely you'd need to claim anyway!

RealBlackStuff and myself have set up The Board Room as a source of high quality refurbished boards for US-based Thinkpad Forum members. Details via my sig.

I'd say that balancing the short term cost of the hot air gun and consequent risks versus buying a Board Room refurbished board, I'd want to go for the latter every time.

[Rossano]

Thank you Norway Pad and Nick for advice.

Well, I'm agreed with the danger of whole reflow operation. I definitely understand everything what you said. However I have some amateur experiences with disassembling/assembling many notebooks, soldering, working with hot air gun, I have tools (e.g. infra-thermometer)... and if I'll join that all, then I can make a good job. Reflowing procedure has its own rules, and therefore these must be kept. I'm going to reflow the southbridge on my motherboard on Christmas - there will be much more time to do it.
And... if I'll fail, then there will be reasonable cause to buy a new notebook. For example - a new ThinkPad from Lenovo is perfect choice (sth. from T or L series, SL isn't high-quality notebook) or sth. from Lenovo IdeaPad is reagonable option. Anyway, I'll send you a word.

[poshgeordie]

I don't think we've welcomed you to the forums Rossano, so welcome and good to have you here.

Good too that you're trying the reflowing yourself and I hope it works for you. Please let us know how you get on.

You may be interested to know that we do a lot of work for customers in Europe too, so please PM or email me if you want more information - details in my sig or via the right hand blue banner at the top of every page.