T61p CPU Speed Issues (Idle speed too high ? & downvolti

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danny_isr · #1 Post by **danny_isr** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:56 am

i'm not going to write the whole story here, just the points.

my laptop brand new T61p (2 weeks old) seems to work only at 2.2Ghz no matter what i do. i tried this forum but no one seems to know what it is.

anyhow i called them , the guy didn't understated what im talking about. i tried to explain him again and again. actually i'm not sure that he knows what i'm talking about even after we hanged up....

he went and asked his supervisor , and i still cannot believe their answer : "Google it" yeah GOOGLE it . research it.

then i said, i already did... so he said well if we will work on this , we will/may bill you. because it's software issue not a hardware .

well first of all i don't know how he already determined that it is software and not hardware . and second ... i bought the software from Lenovo as well. it's called Vista.

the problem was from DAY ONE. and i explained it to him.
i almost didnt install a thing on this laptop yet.

so why bill me ? i just don't get it....

i have to admit that it does feel bad , in one hand i know i CANNOT return it and get my money back . because of the "new policy" and if i want to get help from them i'm getting "we will bill you" <- on a brand new laptop ????

killigrew · #2 Post by **killigrew** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:58 am

I wouldn't that call a horror story...

how do you know your cpu ist underclocking?
did you try RMClock its a very good little Tool to underclock the CPU
for me it gave me better results than NHC but has no ACPI Script Support.
If you don't want to use extra tools, are the Speedstep and Powermanagement Settings in the Bios set correctly to adaptive or someting like that NOT maximum Power?

cu

#3 Post by **Harryc** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:21 am

Are you saying that Intel speedstep is not working? In other words your CPU is rated for 2.2GHz and it never ratchets down to any lower speed? What is the machine type/model# of your Thinkpad?

#4 Post by **ryengineer** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:12 am

Sir, IBM support is not trained and capable to answer questions of such nature. Undervolting/downvolting etc.... is totally up to users. Lenovo takes the responsibility for it's machines, softwares it provides, deals with the compatibility issues of these softwares under Windows and makes sure all 3 work properly.

If you install a third party software to check if your CPU is not going below 2.2GHz then certainly lenovo is going to bill you for providing support on this issue.

I don't see your machine malfunctioning, if you feel it is then you can avail your warranty.

#5 Post by **GomJabbar** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:33 am

I agree with ryengineer that you cannot expect IBM/Lenovo to provide support for utilities such as NHC.

Why don't you try uninstalling NHC, then install and run PC Wizard and see what it reports?

http://www.cpuid.com/pcwizard.php

#6 Post by **Harryc** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:37 am

Are you guys reading a different thread than I am? I don't see the word 'undervolt' or 'NHC' anywhere in the OPs (danny_isr) post. It may certainly turn out that he is in fact trying to do that, but it has not been established. I took it to mean that speedstep is not working. That may be a hardware or software problem, most likely a power management setting.

#7 Post by **ryengineer** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:52 am

Harryc wrote:Are you guys reading a different thread than I am? I don't see the word 'undervolt' or 'NHC' anywhere in the OPs (danny_isr) post. It may certainly turn out that he is in fact trying to do that, but it has not been established. I took it to mean that speedstep is not working. That may be a hardware or software problem, most likely a power management setting.

The user brought up a similar issue before as well.

#8 Post by **Harryc** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:59 am

ryengineer wrote: The user brought up a similar issue before as well.

His basic problem in the linked thread is speedstep not working. If it were me I'd just fire up a DVD of OpenSUSE live and see what CPU speed reads on it at idle. That would be a quick hardware/software elimination tactic.

Pascal_TTH · #9 Post by **Pascal_TTH** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:19 am

Harryc wrote:Are you guys reading a different thread than I am? I don't see the word 'undervolt' or 'NHC' anywhere in the OPs (danny_isr) post. It may certainly turn out that he is in fact trying to do that, but it has not been established. I took it to mean that speedstep is not working. That may be a hardware or software problem, most likely a power management setting.

I agree danny_isr did not tells about any adavanced features. Core 2 Duo do not have to run full speed all the time. Intel did not spend billions dollars to have Speedstep in CPU for reducing power consumption and heat when full power is not needed.

I also have a T61 from office since a few days. It's a Core 2 Duo T7100. It runs at 2 Ghz when loaded but goes down to 1600 MHz during idle. BUT it should normaly idle at only 1200 Mhz (6 x 200 Mhz). It seems the CPU only goes down to 1200 MHz on battery. But from time to time, even with power cord connected, it slows to 1200 Mhz. Most time, the low frequency is 1600 Mhz. This is a very strange behavior ! I prefer to tell it : I do not use any other software then those from Lenovo...

My T61 also have a DAO touchpad. Lenovo support send me a new plam rest. It was not the good FRU (or CRU). The plam rest was thicker (like for R serie)...

But touchpad was working and also the FPR. So, I remove the touchpad from the *wrong news* plam rest and fix it on the right one. I lost half a day to have a working T61.

Harryc wrote:
ryengineer wrote: The user brought up a similar issue before as well.
His basic problem in the linked thread is speedstep not working. If it were me I'd just fire up a DVD of OpenSUSE live and see what CPU speed reads on it at idle. That would be a quick hardware/software elimination tactic.

I also agree...

-> danny_isr :
Witch Windows runs on your T61p ?
Is it Lenovo installation or your own clean Windows XP/Vista ?
If you run Windows XP, do you have SP2 and all updates ?
What is your power scheme ?
Di you still run NHC, RMclock or any kind of low level access software ?
What tells the taskmanager ? Any running application in background ?

#10 Post by **bill bolton** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:36 am

danny_isr wrote:anyhow i called them , the guy didn't understated what im talking about

I'm not sure what you are talking about either, so perhaps there is some communication issue here on your side!

Cheers,

Bill B.

danny_isr · #11 Post by **danny_isr** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:49 am

Harryc wrote:Are you saying that Intel speedstep is not working? In other words your CPU is rated for 2.2GHz and it never ratchets down to any lower speed? What is the machine type/model# of your Thinkpad?

this is exactly what i'm saying. when i'm not using it , it should go to IDLE means lower CPU speed. And this is what i explained the support guy from Lenovo.

machine is 8891-CTO T61p

it got NOTHING to do with third part software. i am using third part software just to READ my cpu speed.
if you know how to read the CPU speed without third party software , please share !
i donwload 3 different CPU utilities and one of them is NHC and all reports the same thing. 2.2Ghz at all times. even on Battery.
i used my T43 for over 2 years. i KNOW how it should behave and under what power settings including BIOS. but nothing seems to help in this case. whatever settings i used it remains 2.2.

my conclusions are , it's or Vista problem , or Hardware problem or it's reporting the wrong CPU speed. (or i'm doing something wrong...)

and yes i think Lenovo should take care of that. the fact that i did have a question in other post about Undervolting got nothing to do with this.

it's very simple , it won't IDLE. yes maybe this is very simple . and it's just a setup problem , this is what i'm trying to figure.

By the way i didn't mention to Lenovo ANY third part software that i'm using !! i just said the CPU won't idle. and i got the "google it". and that is WEIRD !

bill bolton wrote:
danny_isr wrote:anyhow i called them , the guy didn't understated what im talking about
I'm not sure what you are talking about either, so perhaps there is some communication issue here on your side!

Cheers,

Bill B.

no, it was more like he wasn't even aware to that feature (IDLE to lower speed) ...

ALl i was asking(and hopping before i called) from Lenovo was that he will go with me over the settings. Bios and Vista and check with me over the phone that every thing is fine. and setup correctly.
i don't think this is too much to ask ....

#12 Post by **GomJabbar** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:55 am

With XP anyway, you can run PC-Doctor for Windows. Go to System and Device Tests > System > and under CPU choose Device Information > Detailed Device Information. The CPU speed should be at the bottom of the list. I am not sure, but PC Doctor for DOS bootable CD may provide this information as well.

#13 Post by **Harryc** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:23 pm

If you want to try a test, download, burn, and boot an OpenSUSE Live DVD. (Linux). Once you get it loaded, open up a terminal (console) and run the following command;

cat /proc/cpuinfo

That will tell you the speed. It should be in the 1200MHz neighborhood while idle. If it works in Linux you do not have a hardware problem.

http://download.opensuse.org/distributi ... iveDVD.iso

jamesqf · #14 Post by **jamesqf** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:33 pm

What you may be seeing is the Windows equivalent of an "ondemand" cpu speed governor. It seems that with newer CPUs, it's more power efficient to run at full speed whenever there's work to do, then go to a C4 sleep state when idle, than to spend longer doing the work at lower frequency.

Go to www.linuxpowertop.org for more info.

danny_isr · #15 Post by **danny_isr** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:28 pm

thanks for those answers i will check that.
the question is what other people with the same laptop see....?

and as far for the topic subject change by the Admin, i still think Lenovo is wrong here. And i thought that i can say my opinion .....

i have an issue with a product i bought from them for premium price.
it may be bad hardware , software or even my mistake. Sorry but google it is not an answer ... that's an attitude problem and that was the main subject behind this post.

#16 Post by **ryengineer** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:39 am

danny_isr wrote:snip......ALl i was asking(and hopping before i called) from Lenovo was that he will go with me over the settings. Bios and Vista and check with me over the phone that every thing is fine. and setup correctly. i don't think this is too much to ask ....

Sir, if you believe something is wrong in the BIOS then you can set it to default and if you believe something is wrong with your machine then please avail your warranty.

danny_isr · #17 Post by **danny_isr** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:05 pm

ryengineer wrote:
danny_isr wrote:snip......ALl i was asking(and hopping before i called) from Lenovo was that he will go with me over the settings. Bios and Vista and check with me over the phone that every thing is fine. and setup correctly. i don't think this is too much to ask ....
Sir, if you believe something is wrong in the BIOS then you can set it to default and if you believe something is wrong with your machine then please avail your warranty.

Sir , the laptop did this from day one , every thing in the Bios is in default. this post was the story about me trying to avail my warranty.

BradS · #18 Post by **BradS** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:23 pm

I have an 8891-CTO T61. T7300, nVidia 140m.

On energy star and off of battery I am at 1600MHz.

Actually I have it on adaptive now and I can see it dip down to 1200MHz.

I'm using PC Wizard 2007 to monitor CPU.

Pascal_TTH · #19 Post by **Pascal_TTH** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:18 pm

Something is wrong with T61. Mine is most time at 1600 MHz while it should be at 1200 MHz. A friend got an HP 8510p witch idle correctly at 1200 Mhz. Both have the same behavior whatever we use the pre installed Windows Vista or a new installation with Windows XP and all the drivers.

danny_isr · #20 Post by **danny_isr** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 1:54 pm

OK now i'm getting 1600MHz as well. PC Wizard 2007 is the only thing that works seems like. NHC or any other application i tried showed 2.2 no idea why.

when i'm switching between power setting i am able to see momentarily 1200 . but it just for a second and then it goes back to 1600Mhz.....

danny_isr · #21 Post by **danny_isr** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:02 pm

and another thing , why i cannot downvolt using NHC ? am i using the wrong version ? is it Vista ?

#22 Post by **GomJabbar** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:31 pm

danny_isr wrote:and another thing , why i cannot downvolt using NHC ? am i using the wrong version ? is it Vista ?

I don't have a direct answer, but I suggest you look in the ThinkPad Utility Work Area forum. Here is a thread to get you started.
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 2&start=90

danny_isr · #23 Post by **danny_isr** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:00 pm

thanks !

Pascal_TTH · #24 Post by **Pascal_TTH** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:24 pm

danny_isr wrote:and another thing , why i cannot downvolt using NHC ? am i using the wrong version ? is it Vista ?

Impossible to undervolt any Core (2) Duo with any laptop except if the BIOS allow it.

BradS · #25 Post by **BradS** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:53 pm

OK I think I might just have a solution for you:

First off download Intel Thermal Analysis Tool aka TAT.

It shows a real nice log.

Then follow this guide to thin down Vista a bit and expecially get rid of the auto indexing.

I then restarted (I actually shut down and then started again, whatever) , made sure the battery was in, and the power supply was in. When vista was up I ended all the thinkvantage stuff and everything else I that looked like it shouldn't be there.

Put power manager setting on adaptive for the processor. Then run Thermal analysis tool and hopefully have good results.

I was able to click open a firefox window and a few documents, watch the cores run up to 2000MHz. Then I'd stop everything and soon after I'd watch both cores drop incrementally from 2000, to 1600 to 1200 to 800MHz. And it would stay there till I moved the mouse and started opening programs again.

Just make sure to get rid of the vista auto indexing and as much stuff as you can from the guides and give it another shot.

jamesqf · #26 Post by **jamesqf** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:01 pm

BradS wrote:...I'd watch both cores drop incrementally from 2000, to 1600 to 1200 to 800MHz.

But if what you're interested in is saving power, you shouldn't see this behavior. You should see the CPU running at max speed, or sleeping in a C4 state - assuming of course that Windows is capable of doing this sort of CPU speed management, which I wouldn't know about.

T61p CPU Speed Issues (Idle speed too high ? & downvolti

T61p CPU Speed Issues (Idle speed too high ? & downvolti

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