Which is toast: my HDD or WinXP?

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findrivr · #1 Post by **findrivr** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:48 pm

I have a T41 [23737CU; Win XP-Pro,SP2; 40 GB HDD, 5000mb avail].

I've been trying to upgrade to a new 120gb HDD; well, I never got around to it and now I have a partially functional system.

In standard Windows mode, some programs and utilities launch, others don't: InternetExplorer, Windows Explorer, Control Panel, Notepad never boot.
Other programs like Acronis True Image, PC Doctor and Access IBM will open and run, up to a point. Then, due to inactivity, I try opening the Windows Task Manager, which indicates that the program is not responding.
After days of trying to invoke something to analyze the problem, I went into safe mode and looked at the Admin Services Event Log for applications. The most notable of the system errors stated that an IDE device had a 'bad block'. My guess is that it refers to the HDD having a fault in the disc, therefore the system can't find some dll files such as what IE and other programs need to run.

Anyone familiar with this scenario; can I do a Win system restore, from Safe Mode, back to a point when the system last operated?

BTW: no I don't have an IBM system recovery dsic; no, I never used the IBM backup utility either. And finally, no, I don't have a windows xp pro install disc either.

Any help is appreciated.
Thanks,
Patrick

SHoTTa35 · #2 Post by **SHoTTa35** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:04 pm

well getting the recovery discs should be first on your lists of priorities. That then take that drive out and let it relax for a while. Install the discs and then buy a USB 2.0 adapter or the UltraBay adapter for IDE drives and then put your drive in and copy the data off fast before it totally dies. After you've got all the data then format it and see if you can use it for some data storage nothing critical tho.

sktn77a · #3 Post by **sktn77a** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:38 pm

Did you do anyhting in particular before you started having problems? The T41 came with a hidden recovery partition from new - hold down the accessIBM button when booting to access this (you don't need recovery CDs to do this).

Sounds like something in your system is hosed so you don't have much to loose.

#4 Post by **GomJabbar** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:10 pm

Making a backup should be your first priority. After that, I would go to My Computer, right click on the hard drive, choose Properties > Tools > Error-checking > Check Now... > check both boxes and click on Start. This should find any bad sectors and remove them from being used. It is possible that your hard drive will work OK now, but I wouldn't count on it.

I had a used ThinkPad given to me that had some bad sectors on the hard drive. Once I removed those sectors from use (using the above method), the drive worked fine. I am not sure what caused all those bad sectors on the drive, but I speculate the laptop was dropped at some point in it's life, damaging an area of the hard drive.

EDIT: Once you do the above, you can go to Start > Run, and type sfc /scannow in the Open box and click on OK. You will probably need a Windows install CD of the same version of Windows handy for the operation to complete. This will scan your hard drive for missing or corrupted Windows OS files and restore them.

findrivr · #5 Post by **findrivr** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:17 pm

Yes, I can invoke the AccessIBM Restore to Factory Contents utility; no problem there since I copied programs and data over to my shared n/w drive here at home.

I'm trying to get Acronis TI to do a full backup to the n/w drive.
If that's sucessful, then I'll take out that overworked little 40gb and replace it with the 120gb new hdd and do an initialize and format in the T41.
Of course, if Acronis TI doesn't pull thru due to 'bad block' in IDE device, I'll have to either do a full Restore to Factory Contents of the 40gb drive and then copy the b/u'd programs and data from the n/w drive. I don't think I'll get the IBM PreDesktop Area in this way, but I think I'll at least have a functional T41 again.

I believe my critical error or command was that I forgot the system was in suspend mode and inadvertantly hit the resume from hibernation key combo. I think I saw an error event advising that the USERprofile registry had used the same memory allocated to the system registry and that the system had to clear one or the other for a shutdown...or something like that.

Thanks for the attempts to analyze; if need be, I can restart in safe mode and go into admin tools>system>event viewer and transcribe a word for word of those error and warning messages.
Patrick

agarza · #6 Post by **agarza** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:37 am

Well, to my point of view is better to make a backup of your drive, and to completely eliminate the bad blocks is to use Hitachi DFT tool and see if the drive is OK. If a error comes up, zero the drive with that tool.

Reinstalling Windows letting format the drive (normal format) would allow the drive to only use the healthy blocks.

Although this should not be your 1st option, since you want to use the hidden partition.

FYI, I do not use Access IBM service partition, I rather use the full disk space capacity.

findrivr · #7 Post by **findrivr** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:23 pm

Gom,

Making a backup should be your first priority. After that, I would go to My Computer, right click on the hard drive, choose Properties > Tools > Error-checking > Check Now... > check both boxes and click on Start. This should find any bad sectors and remove them from being used. It is possible that your hard drive will work OK now, but I wouldn't count on it.

I replaced the original drive back in the drive bay and invoked the XP disk error check and the 2nd utility [can't remember its function now].
Unfortunately, I did this and XP hangs on stage 4 of 5, "verifying file data": 1% completed [now for about 2 hours].
I'm giving it another hour; if still at 1%, I'll presume there is some irrecoverable or damaged portion of the old HDD that is also not allowing the launch and proper run of WinExp, IE, etc.
[although I can get them to open in SafeMode]
For whatever its worth, the 'disk' icon on the screen bezel is alternately lit for about 12 seconds, then off for about 1/2 second, then repeats, ad infinitum....

Like I last said, the Acronis TI disk clone procedure seemed to work, but once I replaced the old HDD w/the new clone, the T41 specified: 'No o/s found'.
I tried the MBR repair by d/loading from another PC to a 3.5 disc, but I only copied it to the 3.5 disc vs. executing it from that [non-IBM TPad] PC; I presume that the execution of the utility would only be good for the MBR of a specific PC, so I thought I'd try to get the utility to runon the T41 from the 3.5 disc and see if I could execute the utility outside of XP.
No luck, the T41 ignores it and returns a non-system disk error.

Not really sure how to get around this; again, it looks like a Recover to Factory Default may be as good as it's going to get.

Which now raises the next query: What actually, if anything, got cloned on the new HDD and if it is as defective for XP as the old HDD, should I re-format it [from another PC] and then USB dock it back to the T41 and try to re-clone the old HDD [w/the new Factory Default system on it] to it?
I'd like to be sure to at least get the PreDesktop Area and basic XP w/IBMs own s/w and drivers.

Hope you could follow all of this- I'm thoroughly exasperrated.
Patrick

findrivr · #8 Post by **findrivr** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:44 am

As a follow-up, I tried to clone the original HDD [reportedly with a 'bad block'] using my partially functional xp o/s with Acronis TI v9.0. Everything seemed to proceed as expected with Acronis, until the reboot. I had chosen the 'manaul' method of disk cloning and partitioning, since the old hdd is a 40gb and the new 120gb.
At the apparent end of the cloning process, after the reboot, the first 2 messages indicate 100% success, but the third step specified an "error: the hard drive structure has changed.
Upon a repeated attempt, the new hdd shows all of its space as unallocated and no partitions, proving that the clone had not occured. Not sure why Acronis is unable to clone the old hdd, other than the old hdd having a 'bad block'.
Apparently, this 'bad block' problem hasn't allowed Acronis to do a backup as well. Looking back at the log, it specified "Operation with partition C was terminated [details: unable to create volume snapshot (0x70021)" "Operation has completed with errors"
Of course when I look at the b/u folder on my network, there nothing there, other than the folder name.

Related to this original issue, I mis-stated in the above messages, that I don't have a recovery set of CDs. Actually, its been so long since I purchased this unit, I forgot. The former owner included the Recovery CDs when I bought it; I loaded them using the new hdd and they are IBM Recovery version 5.8. I ran them on the new hdd and went all the way up to the reformat and re-install of xp and factory default configuration. If thats all I can salvage, I can live with that, since I did a manual copy of all folders of my old hdd to my network drive last March [not much data has been added since]. I guess I would still have to re-install all of my old programs though.

Oh well, still exasperrated.
Patrick

GACrabill · #9 Post by **GACrabill** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:00 pm

If I were working on this problematic hard drive, I would remove it from the laptop, connect it to another XP system with an IDE-to-USB connector cable or place it in a 2.5" external USB enclosure. Then I would use the 2nd PC to run "chkdsk e: /r /x" from the "command prompt". Using the 2nd PC to do the scan keeps the 1st PC's operating system out of the picture. This would tell you how bad the drive really is and whether chkdsk can recover all of the errors. I have used the above method twice in the past to prevent someone from re-loading everything. Each time chkdsk fixed the errors and the hard drive worked perfectly when re-installed into the original PC.

#10 Post by **carbon_unit** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:44 am

You won't get very good results by putting the Thinkpad hard drive in a desktop machine. You will get better results by getting a real Windows XP install disk, booting to it and selecting "R" at the prompt, and then running "chkdsk /r".

findrivr · #11 Post by **findrivr** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:09 pm

Well, I tried GACrabill's option; that is to run 'chkdsk....' from the 'command prompt'. The result was 'cannot open volume for direct access'. However, it was able to read the entire directory structure when I typed 'dir f:'.

I ran the Windows 'error checking' and XP replied 'Windows was unable to complete the disk check'.

carbon_unit: I don't have a WinXP install disk.

Thanks for the suggestions; not sure how to proceed from here now.
Q: If I were to run R&R [IBM v5.8 discs] from the T41 with the new blank drive installed in the standard HDD port, would it create a clone of the factory configured xp and ibm drivers, system files [pre-desktop area, etc] as it seems to imply?
If so, then it appears I would just be lacking my updated drivers, system files, xp patches and all of my s/w and data?
If this is the worst case scenario, being able to COPY my 'programs' and 'data' folders from the old disk via a USB caddy would seem to take care of that issue.
or am I missing a fundamental part here?
Thanks,
Patrick

GACrabill · #12 Post by **GACrabill** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:37 pm

findrivr wrote: ... The result was 'cannot open volume for direct access'. However, it was able to read the entire directory structure when I typed 'dir f:'.

This seems weird to me ... isn't an 'open' required before a 'read' can be done?

A Google search of your 'cannot open volume for direct access' finds others reporting that chkdsk and error-checking doesn't work when Spyware Doctor is installed. If you have that, I would disable it and try again.

I might try a simple 'chkdsk f:' first just to see if this read-only process would tell me if there are errors that need fixing. Then try the 'chkdsk f: /r /x'.

#13 Post by **GomJabbar** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:55 pm

Perhaps the problems is with NTFS permissions. Try and borrow a Windows XP install CD and run checkdisk from there. You can also try running checkdisk from Windows SAFE MODE.

Alternatively, try one of the following tools.

Hitachi Drive Fitness Test

Fujitsu Diagnostic Tool and Erase Utility

Samsung HUTIL

findrivr · #14 Post by **findrivr** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:59 pm

I might re-install the old drive in the T41 and try the 'checkdisk' in SAFE MODE. Forgot how to boot into SAFE MODE though.

Additionally, the Hitachi site specifies that:
Notes

Ultrastar 10K300, Ultrastar 15K73 and DK32XX users, do not use DFT — Use the OGT Diagnostic Tool.
Does not support Microdrive Digital Media products.
Supports all Travelstar HDDs, except 8E, 10E and C4K series.
Does not support external USB or Firewire attached drives.
Compatible only with x86-based processors.

I guess I'll try to run a copy of the Hitachi test from an attached USB thumb drive, after re-installing the old HDD back into the T41.

GACrabill: The DOS command prompt doesn't like the syntax you described [chkdsk f: /r /x]; it did reply to [chkdsk f:] though, but only that it still 'cannot open volume for direct access'.
Don't know what else to tell you.

Really, I'm getting so frustrated with this whole thing, I'm close to just running the R&R discs and taking my chances re-constructing the new drive from there. I've put waaaay too much time into this already; I want to be a user, not a fixer.
Patrick

GACrabill · #15 Post by **GACrabill** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:34 pm

Safe Mode is achieved by pressing F8 every couple of seconds during Windows boot-up, then choosing Safe Mode instead of normal start-up.

So, you don't have Spyware Doctor installed on either PC1 or PC2?

From DOS Command Prompt :

help chkdsk
Checks a disk and displays a status report.

CHKDSK [volume[[path]filename]]] [/F] [/V] [/R] [/X] [/I] [/C] [/L[:size]]

volume Specifies the drive letter (followed by a colon), mount point, or volume name.
filename FAT/FAT32 only: Specifies the files to check for fragmentation.
/F Fixes errors on the disk.
/V On FAT/FAT32: Displays the full path and name of every file on the disk.
On NTFS: Displays cleanup messages if any.
/R Locates bad sectors and recovers readable information (implies /F).
/L:size NTFS only: Changes the log file size to the specified number of kilobytes. If size is not specified, displays current size.
/X Forces the volume to dismount first if necessary.
All opened handles to the volume would then be invalid (implies /F).
/I NTFS only: Performs a less vigorous check of index entries.
/C NTFS only: Skips checking of cycles within the folder
structure.

The /I or /C switch reduces the amount of time required to run Chkdsk by skipping certain checks of the volume.

I understand the frustration level, been there, done that.

If you rebuild on the new hard drive and copy your data files to the new drive, then the complicated part will be re-installing all of your other programs .... simply copying those folders to the new drive may not work for a number of them since their normal install process requires updating registry entries. Re-installing everything (printers, scanners, photo editors, etc. can be a lot of work and lots of searching for misplaced install CDs. Good luck.

Which is toast: my HDD or WinXP?

Which is toast: my HDD or WinXP?

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