Seagate Momentus 7200.2 as good as Hitachi Travelstar (PIC)

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Pascal_TTH · #31 Post by **Pascal_TTH** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:32 pm

jcvjcvjcvjcv wrote:
Pascal_TTH wrote:I really don't understand why they place 7200 rpm drives in USB 2.0 external enclosure. USB 2.0 maximum transfert rate is 30 MB/s. With so slow data rates, there is realy no need to have 15 ms access time instead of 17 ms...

Whatever, a 7K200 200 GB for 170 $ with the enclosure is quiet a nice price. Down side is only one year warranty.
That's easy: That's so you can swap the drive in the enclosure with your current notebookdrive.

Result: (common): 120 GB 5400 RPM in the enclosure, 200 GB 7200 rpm in the notebook.

I know, but *they* refers to Hitachi. I was not very clear in my post. 7K200 200 GB is hard to find (no enough ?) and high priced at least in Europe. Hitachi puts them in HDD external enclosure and sold them at low price. Most time, a manufacture act this way then they have too many parts...

allen · #32 Post by **allen** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:05 pm

so are you guys saying there is an compatibility issue w/ the 3gb/s model and a T60p?

and/or

that the speed is the same in a T60p anyhow?

#33 Post by **erik** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:17 pm

allen wrote:so are you guys saying there is an compatibility issue w/ the 3gb/s model and a T60p?

and/or

that the speed is the same in a T60p anyhow?

the speed is identical.

crashnburn · #34 Post by **crashnburn** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:17 pm

So did anyone actually verify the drive from that external enclosure? Is it still available for purchase.

#35 Post by **erik** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:30 pm

here is a link to the drive. current price is $149. some come with 7200 RPM and others 5400 RPM so you have to check the serial number for "DTG". i decided not to bother with one right now since the warranty is only one year.

allen · #36 Post by **allen** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:00 pm

erik wrote:the speed is identical.

i spoke with hitachi pre-sales support, and they said some laptops will recognize the 3gb/s and only use it at 1.5 gb/s, and some laptops will not even be able to recognize the drive if it's 3 gb/s, and the way to find out is call your manufacturer.

i called ibm tech support, and, they really don't seem to have an answer for me regarding the 1.5gb/s vs. 3 gb/s

the only thing they did tell me was that my machine will accept up to a 120gb hard drive, maybe 160gb, but maybe not.

what is the deal with that? is that just outdated documentation? or is that really the most i can put in my T60p?

mybellyisempty · #37 Post by **mybellyisempty** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:19 pm

no, because I have a 200gb and 250gb in mine.

#38 Post by **erik** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:50 pm

@ allen: thinkpads should recognize SATA 3.0 drives, however speed will be absolutely identical between SATA 1.5 and 3.0. until data paths are improved, there's absolutely no reason to source out a SATA 3.0 drive. you'll be extremely disappointed in your investment.

your thinkpad can use any 9mm SATA drive, regardless of size. the theoretical limit is higher than any drive currently offered on the market, including the 320GB from toshiba.

Marie-Anne · #39 Post by **Marie-Anne** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:59 am

Pascal_TTH wrote:Don't need all the extra space but fastest drive. When I see how slow is the 7K100 coming with my T60p.

7K100 tested on my T60p before the upgrade to 7200.2 200 Go :
(IMAGE REMOVED)

Mutch too long access time : 17 ms is just good for 5400 rpm drives.
39.2 MB/s to 51.6 MB/s is more then 30% transfer rate.

Pascal,

I've just tested my 7K100 (100 GB) of my T60 (T5600 C2D CPU), using HD Tune (v. 2.54) and HD Tach (v.3.0.4.0).

My results of HD Tune:
Min. Transfer Rate: 18.9 MB/s
Max. Transfer Rate: 51.0 MB/s
Average: 39.3 MB/s
Access Time: 15.7 ms
Burst Rate: 89.7 MB/s
CPU usage: 100% (previously: approx 50%, 2 times)

My results of HD Tach:
Burst speed: 117.4 MB/s
Random access: 15.8 ms
CPU utilization: 2% (+/- 2%)
Average speed: 42.0 MB/s

HD Tune seems to me unreliable with the extreme high measured CPU usage, whereas HD Tach shows a far more accurate and better result of CPU usage.

Anyone else having comparable experiences, like I'm having?

Pascal_TTH · #40 Post by **Pascal_TTH** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:59 pm

I never see such an issue. What does the task manager show ? Most time HDtune is more reliable the HDtach mostly with Windows Vista.

laundromatt · #41 Post by **laundromatt** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:55 pm

for what it's worth -

i went to bestbuy yesterday to get the Hitachi drive / enclosure deal. for 149, i got myself a 7K200 200GB drive.

i used the trial version of acronis true image, and within 2 hours of getting home, had the new drive up and running.

here are the results, using hd tach version 3.0.4.0

old drive - hitachi, 80 gb, 5400 rpm (came with thinkpad)

random access - 17.2 ms
cpu utilization - 4% (+/- 2%)
average read - 28.2 MB/s

new drive - hitach, 200 gb, 7200 rpm (from Bestbuy)

random access - 14.8 ms
cpu utilization - 0% (+/- 2%)
average read - 52.0 MB/s

other things -

noise - actually, the new drive seems to be more quiet...
heat - no difference

overall, i'm pretty happy with how things turned out. [/img]

allen · #42 Post by **allen** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:06 pm

so best buy really does have it,
the one in the link says 5400rpm so i wasnt sure,
thanks!

tweakfreak1988 · #43 Post by **tweakfreak1988** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:19 pm

Dang, I just bought a slightly used 7k200 on ebay for 155 shipped and I gotta wait. Should of waited and looked at this thread to see bestbuy had them, didn't have to wait AND I get an enclosure, its a win win.

Sad Panda

But I'm still getting a 7k200

laundromatt · #44 Post by **laundromatt** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:06 pm

if you're going to try the bestbuy thing, make sure you check the serial number before purchasing.

allen · #45 Post by **allen** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:40 pm

care to divulge, what serial number? what should it be?

#46 Post by **erik** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:45 pm

allen wrote:care to divulge, what serial number? what should it be?

it has been discussed in previous posts above...

erik wrote:some come with 7200 RPM and others 5400 RPM so you have to check the serial number for "DTG".

Marie-Anne · #47 Post by **Marie-Anne** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:20 pm

Pascal_TTH wrote:I never see such an issue. What does the task manager show ? Most time HDtune is more reliable the HDtach mostly with Windows Vista.

Hi Pascal,

Task Manager shows 50% or 100% cpu usage when running HD Tune (on my XP Pro T60) as well.
These bad results showed up since I updated the firmware of my 7K100 drive
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-63685

Additionally, HD Tune is not able to retrieve relevant data (tab Info)of the drive, as it reports for the buffer 0 KB.

In the meantime I've reported by email this weird behaviour of HD Tune to its developers.

By googling, I've noticed that excessive CPU usage by HD Tune occurs/occurred with other users in the past as well. HD Tune reports a case of excessive cpu usage in its FAQ as well.

Pascal, if you've any future plans to upgrade the firmware of your 7K100 drive as well like I did, would you please check it with HD Tune and report your results?

Pascal_TTH · #48 Post by **Pascal_TTH** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:25 am

100% CPU usage can be caused by the drive using PIO mode instead of UDMA. I just have a look at this using google but I did not found any solution. Most questions stay without answer.

If you copy some files from your hard disk through network ar to an external disk, did your mouse tend to stutter ? Aslo, check if the task manager show 100% during HTtach.

I run HDtune with the 7K100 in my T61 and did not have any issue. CPU usage is about 3,5%. I can't run the test with the T60p beacause I need the stuff installed on the 7K100 for the T61.

Marie-Anne · #49 Post by **Marie-Anne** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:11 am

Hello Pascal,

Thank you so much for your quick response!!

To answer your questions:
I've checked it earlier: no PIO mode as it is a SATA drive.
I've not yet checked if there's any stutter of the mouse. Can't do it now, since my husband took the T60 with him for a short break to Germany, starting today (I just came back from Schiphol airport).
During HD Tach, no 50% nor 100% CPU usage, I've noticed. Instead a minor 1% or 2%.

My conclusion yet: latest harddrive firmware upgrade is NOT compatible with HD Tune. Don't ask me why. Hopefully the developers of HD Tune are able to determine the exact cause of extreme CPU usage.
If I get any answer from them, I'll post in this thread.

Pascal, anyway thanks for your support yet!!

Pascal_TTH · #50 Post by **Pascal_TTH** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:30 am

My pleasure...

SATA and PATA are interface. PIO and DMA are way to access the hardware. PIO use the CPU while DMA is direct memory access.

Check is the device manager, under IDE controler (or something like that) and see what you get under Advanced. You should have DMA if aviable.

Also, Windows XP SP2 is needed to handle SATA. Windows XP can have issue with some SATA controlers.

http://forums.windrivers.com/showthread.php?t=62674

Marie-Anne · #51 Post by **Marie-Anne** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:55 am

Pascal,

It seems there's a bug in the Forum software, as I've replied to your latest post, but it's listed PRIOR to your latest post. Weird, isn't.

Marie-Anne

caseyse · #52 Post by **caseyse** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:52 pm

Went to Best Buy today, and picked-up the enclosure for the $149 (serial DTG). Popped it open, and found a 7200 drive. I'm currently cloning my 100GB drive w. GParted. Thanks for the great tip.

crashnburn · #53 Post by **crashnburn** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:22 pm

caseyse wrote:Went to Best Buy today, and picked-up the enclosure for the $149 (serial DTG). Popped it open, and found a 7200 drive. I'm currently cloning my 100GB drive w. GParted. Thanks for the great tip.

Does your serial number start with the DTG? On the enclosure? On the Box?

Experts: Is there any other to recognize that its a 7200RPM drive without popping it open? Say some identification number / model number as it shows in HDD Info etc / Device Manager software

tweakfreak1988 · #54 Post by **tweakfreak1988** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:29 pm

I put my new 7k200 drive in w/ a fresh copy of vista biz and updates

HDTach:

15.6ms
0% CPU
55.5 MB/s

EDIT: It also seems MUCH cooler that my Seagate 100GB 7200rpm

caseyse · #55 Post by **caseyse** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:15 pm

crashnburn wrote:
caseyse wrote:Went to Best Buy today, and picked-up the enclosure for the $149 (serial DTG). Popped it open, and found a 7200 drive. I'm currently cloning my 100GB drive w. GParted. Thanks for the great tip.
Does your serial number start with the DTG? On the enclosure? On the Box?

Experts: Is there any other to recognize that its a 7200RPM drive without popping it open? Say some identification number / model number as it shows in HDD Info etc / Device Manager software

The serial was posted on the box (plastic case), and started with "DTG".

Marie-Anne · #56 Post by **Marie-Anne** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:52 am

Pascal_TTH wrote: Check is the device manager, under IDE controler (or something like that) and see what you get under Advanced. You should have DMA if aviable.

Also, Windows XP SP2 is needed to handle SATA. Windows XP can have issue with some SATA controlers.

Yes, I can remember: "DMA if available" was stated!
I've installed XP SP2

thunderdog · #57 Post by **thunderdog** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:45 pm

crashnburn wrote:
caseyse wrote:Went to Best Buy today, and picked-up the enclosure for the $149 (serial DTG). Popped it open, and found a 7200 drive. I'm currently cloning my 100GB drive w. GParted. Thanks for the great tip.
Does your serial number start with the DTG? On the enclosure? On the Box?

Experts: Is there any other to recognize that its a 7200RPM drive without popping it open? Say some identification number / model number as it shows in HDD Info etc / Device Manager software

I've got additional validation here.

I went to the local Best Buy (in Massachusetts).
Purchased the Hitachi 200 GB External Hard Drive (Part number H2200U). Packaged in a half-cylindrical clear plastic container. Label with serial number was on the bottom of the box with serial number starting with "DTG". All 3/3 items in stock were DTG*****.

Item is BACK ON SALE at Best Buy for $139.99.

Used this coupon for an additional 10% off:
http://images.bestbuy.com/BestBuy_US/en ... oupons.pdf

Final retail price was: $125.99. (sure as heck beats NewEgg's price of $205.99).

Plugged the drive into Vista and Device manager identifies this drive as a HTS722020K9SA00 drive!!

Now I'm going to clone my drive with Acronis and swap my laptop's. For all of you doing this, remember to plug BOTH USB ports, as the 7200 rpm drive needs more power than 1 USB port can provide!

Kudos to all who discovered this awesome deal! Cheers!

casperkid · #58 Post by **casperkid** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:33 am

Seagate will begin shipping The Momentus hybrid drives 5400rpm with 256MB of NAND. The hard drive is 20 percent faster, uses 50 percent less power and offers a 30 percent longer lifespan.

More info can be seen http://www.internetnews.com/storage/article.php/3703771

Pascal_TTH · #59 Post by **Pascal_TTH** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:43 am

casperkid wrote:Seagate will begin shipping The Momentus hybrid drives 5400rpm with 256MB of NAND. The hard drive is 20 percent faster, uses 50 percent less power and offers a 30 percent longer lifespan.

More info can be seen http://www.internetnews.com/storage/article.php/3703771

First law : never trust the numbers from the marketing division of any manufacturer.

20% only with Windows Vista using Turbo Memory
50% less power only in idle mode
30% more battery life depending on usage
25% price to add

256 MB is too short to be really usefull. It works like Intel turbo memory aviable in 512 MB or 1 GB. 1 GB PCI-Express Intel Turbo Mem card cost about 25 €. So those drive are rather useless.

nurio · #60 Post by **nurio** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:48 am

casperkid wrote:Seagate will begin shipping The Momentus hybrid drives 5400rpm with 256MB of NAND. The hard drive is 20 percent faster, uses 50 percent less power and offers a 30 percent longer lifespan.

More info can be seen http://www.internetnews.com/storage/article.php/3703771

By PC World tests the new Momentus hybrid can’t keep up with the 7K200 performance:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,13810 ... ticle.html.

I am still waiting to see some more reviews, before I’d make my own judgment.

Seagate Momentus 7200.2 as good as Hitachi Travelstar (PIC)

Eureka!!!

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