Running v. hot in the Dock!

[noetus]

I have a T60p which stays docked most of the time at home. It runs very hot. The CPU usage is constantly between 50% and 100% even when I'm not doing anything (processes such as WmiPrvSE.exe and svchost.exe are using up cycles) and the CPU temp steadily climbs to around 80 degrees C and hovers there. Usually it climbs higher still, at which point some sort of over-ride kicks in and locks the CPU to 6x and .95V, which drops the temp back to around 65 degrees C. At that point though the system is running at only 998MHz (instead of 2.16GHz) so this is clearly unsatisfactory.

Other temps are high too - both HDDs hover around 50 degrees C (which concerns me - it probably isn't good for them) even when the system is locked down to .95V.

I have tried using NHC to undervolt (using adaptive CPU cycling) with mixed success - it seems to 'fight' with the built-in volting control and the actual CPU voltage flips back and forth between 1.26 V (the default setting for 13x) and whatever NHC is trying to set it at. And since the CPU cycles are high, NHC doesn't really get a chance to step down the CPU very much. So the temp remains high.

When I use the machine undocked, however, the system runs at normal to somewhat high temps (in the high 60s usually).

I have tried a different Advanced Dock, which made no difference whatsoever.

Clearly, the problem is a combination of two factors: (1) High CPU cycles, more or less constant (I am lucky to get idle below 50%, and it doesn't last long), which means higher current through the CPU and hence more heat produced, and (2) Poor ventilation when docked.

Any ideas on what I can do?

[sugo]

Do you have XP or Vista?

[FNAKFHE]

snipped

Somthing is wrong with your drivers.

Just format and reinstall.

[Zender]

Btw, because of fan whine, I was doing some tests and found out that with only integrated display, the GPU (X1400) hovers at ~60C with the fan forced off. Doesn't matter if battery or AC powered, doesn't matter if PowerPlay is in action or not (if the CCC does not lie about it).
Though after connecting secondary display (docked, DVI, 1920x1200) the temperature starts climbing up - at 72C I gave up and let the fan cool it.

Nevertheless I agree that CPU usage should not idle at more than 20%, there must be something wrong with the software, I would try clean system if I were you.

[noetus]

Thanks for the replies, but no way am I doing a clean system install at this point! I have too many things installed, various things starting up at boot, etc. It would take weeks, literally, to get the system back to the same state it's currently in. In a way, the system is configured JUST right for me, except that it doesn't work right! Also, the Thinkpad completely locks up/freezes randomly, ONLY while docked, which may have something to do with the temperature, I don't know. I replaced the Advanced Dock with a brand new one and thought that had sorted out the lock-up problem, as it didn't happen for a few days, but the problem's back.

(The lock-up is not software related because if I try to restart the machine too soon after a lock-up it will lock-up again early in the Windows boot process, or even BEFORE that, during BIOS initialization. Another indication it's heat-related, I am guessing, but oddly, there is no correlation between when it locks up and how hot it's getting. I monitor HDD, GPU and CPu temps and it can run hot for ages and not lock-up, or lock up suddenly when I've been blasting it with the air conditioner and all is cool. However, I HAVE noticed that it ONLY locks up when I am typing in text. I can leave it for days, doing nothing but idling (at 50% CPU and higher) and it will never lock. Funny, that. I use a MS wireless keyboard, but as I said, I don't think it is software-related so can't be the drivers for that.)

I've decided on a more drastic solution. I'm going to sell the T60p and build myself a proper desktop instead. I've decided that running a T60 in an Advanced Dock as a replacement desktop system really doesn't work very well, especially with Vista. It's just too much of a messy compromise all round. (Another thing I've noticed is that the system NEVER starts up right - there's always some little configuration problem, icons missing in the taskbar, a driver fails to load, explorer goes haywire, something gets corrupted, and it can be anything at all from a finite list I've come to know but quite unpredictably from that list, I am guessing that the half-bakedness of Vista has something to do with this. Sometimes I have to restart 2-3 times to get the system right.) It just wasn't designed to handle all the stuff I throw at it (and I have loads of stuff plugged in via USB, audio equipment, hard drives, keyboard and mouse, printers, scanners, a Wacom tablet, etc etc). I could use the same money and build myself an awesome quad 4 desktop, so that's what I'm going to do. Besides, I now have a lovely little X61 tablet that I will use as my laptop 'replacement'. In combo with a real desktop I think it will just be better than trying to make the T61 double in both duties.

By the way, in case anyone suggests again that I should reinstall as something is corrupted, I have installed this system THREE TIMES (each time it takes days and days of my time) and it's always like this. I think the amount of hardware and software I have installed, together with the limitations of the THinkpad+Dock working as a Desktop, just makes stuff going wrong in weird, unpredictable ways completely inevitable. Windows is HUGELY imperfect.

[Zender]

I guess something of what you install when "making it right for you" does the problems, maybe not a single thing. Anything from driver to some utility. If I were you I wouldn't use Vista - you may happen to run into the same problems even with desktop. Though of course properly cooled desktop can withstand it without lockups/overheating.

As for the solution... it depends on what you need. There's way too many things I'd have to sync if using desktop+x60 combo, so right now I'm using T60 as a sole machine and it mostly works for me.

[noetus]

Yup, I certainly didn't mean to suggest that T60p in Dock is bad solution for other people, just for me. I use to have a T40 with a Dock and that doubled as a desktop and laptop and it was great for me, very nice never having to synchronise data, always had the same data with me whereever I was. I had Windows 2003 Server back then. Then I got too ambitious and went for the T60p, which is slightly bigger so I carry it with me less (though screen is SO much better, 1600x1200 flexview), and got lots more hardware and software (~150 processes on startup in TaskManager, that's after pruning), and went with Vista, too. I agree that I think that might be a big part of the problem. I'm going back to W2K3 for the desktop I'm planning to build. It will be simpler, and much, much faster.

[FNAKFHE]

Yup, I certainly didn't mean to suggest that T60p in Dock is bad solution for other people, just for me. I use to have a T40 with a Dock and that doubled as a desktop and laptop and it was great for me, very nice never having to synchronise data, always had the same data with me whereever I was. I had Windows 2003 Server back then. Then I got too ambitious and went for the T60p, which is slightly bigger so I carry it with me less (though screen is SO much better, 1600x1200 flexview), and got lots more hardware and software (~150 processes on startup in TaskManager, that's after pruning), and went with Vista, too. I agree that I think that might be a big part of the problem. I'm going back to W2K3 for the desktop I'm planning to build. It will be simpler, and much, much faster.

Im haveing manny heat issues, but my laptop is not locking up,

Its just powering off when its too hot.

Im waiting for a replacement from lenovo.

I feel your pain, sometimes a laptop will not replace a desktop.

its too much power in this little thing to run cool enough (although i think mine is defectve, and thats why it runs at 90c degrees)

[rek]

Every laptop I've had a docking station for (Z61m, X31, X60s, Dell D620) has been a lot warmer when it was docked. As others have mentioned, the CPU usage issue would be unrelated to the docking.

One thing that can exacerbate the noise issue is that the BIOS sometimes detects that it's docked, and goes into a more aggressive fan profile. This happened on the X60s and Z61m; with the X the fan kept on cycling from silent to medium speed (not low speed, it skipped that) every minute or so. The Z fan was on all the time.

The X31 and D620 were the only two machines I was able to keep 100% quiet under normal office work conditions when docked. In the end, I also came to the conclusion that desktop + ultraportable seems to work best..

X31 is great, quiet, but too slow for a desktop replacement
Z61m is noisy on the dock, and too big/heavy for a laptop, some random config and BT issues
X60s is great, fast, but noisy on an Ultrabase
D620 is fast, quiet, but a bit too big (once you go X you don't go back) and had hardware/config niggles like those you mention

This reminds me, I really need to get around to selling the Dell one day...

[noetus]

I mentioned that one of my problems with the T60p in the Dock is that it randomly freezes/locks up sometimes. I've never been able to figure out why (it doesn't seem temp correlated) but I've just noticed that the risk of it happening increases appreciably when I type stuff in Firefox (just happened and switched to Opera to write this). I've heard about Firefox issues and Vista.. still the lockups don't happen when the machine is undocked.. It's all a bit weird but Vista anyway is really weird.

[FNAKFHE]

I mentioned that one of my problems with the T60p in the Dock is that it randomly freezes/locks up sometimes. I've never been able to figure out why (it doesn't seem temp correlated) but I've just noticed that the risk of it happening increases appreciably when I type stuff in Firefox (just happened and switched to Opera to write this). I've heard about Firefox issues and Vista.. still the lockups don't happen when the machine is undocked.. It's all a bit weird but Vista anyway is really weird.

could be defective ram?

try testing it.

also vista is more power hungry?

[noetus]

could be defective ram?

try testing it.

also vista is more power hungry?

Well, it only happens when docked, so how would defective RAM explain that? Anyways, I did try other RAM (since I had upgraded I had the original sticks still) and it still happened.

[tegelad]

I have had the same thing happen to my past T42p and a T60p that I currently use. For the T42p, I had a fragged bios controller which just left it run at 100%. The T60p had a fan problem with running at full speed and a bios issue.

Both required that I send it back to Lenovo. When I got it back ... it worked like a charm. If you are paranoia'd I would run mobmeter to monitor it; however, I would suggest you make a warranty call to Lenovo.

cheers,

+-ADT

[gunston]

I have had the same thing happen to my past T42p and a T60p that I currently use. For the T42p, I had a fragged bios controller which just left it run at 100%. The T60p had a fan problem with running at full speed and a bios issue.

Both required that I send it back to Lenovo. When I got it back ... it worked like a charm. If you are paranoia'd I would run mobmeter to monitor it; however, I would suggest you make a warranty call to Lenovo.

cheers,

+-ADT

my gf's T42 is much more cooler than yours

[FNAKFHE]

I have had the same thing happen to my past T42p and a T60p that I currently use. For the T42p, I had a fragged bios controller which just left it run at 100%. The T60p had a fan problem with running at full speed and a bios issue.

Both required that I send it back to Lenovo. When I got it back ... it worked like a charm. If you are paranoia'd I would run mobmeter to monitor it; however, I would suggest you make a warranty call to Lenovo.

cheers,

+-ADT

I made a warrantee call to lenovo and im still waiting for a new laptop (over 40 days waiting now )