x60s vs. x61s can't se the real benifit of x61s

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brumwald · #1 Post by **brumwald** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:18 pm

I've used my x60s for over a year now and I still really like it. So when my brother is about to get a new laptop the x60s is a natural place to start with.
The student discout I got my x60s with now has the x61s, but whats the difference?

Yes, theres the 64 bit CPU but the performance gain there isn't that much to boast with and all 64 bit windows version still suffer from heavy compatibility issues. Especially for a laptop thats not a must really, not bad of course, but not a must.

Santa rosa in all it's glory but besides some obious updates (wireless-n) it just seems power-hungry.

Also the wireless-n support is disabled (wtf...) in the x61s (the one with the discount anyway) so no gain there, the graphic card is better but hey - couldn't care less in an x6x ...

So the only real benefits I can se (and they are both very small) is 64 bit support and gbit network.

The problem I see is that battery life seems to be worse on the x61s?
Both the notebookreview and cnet doesn't get as good results (8cel) as the x60s and since thats a very important part of an x6x (IMHO atleast) that alone could easily outweigh 64 bit and gbit network alone. But I haven't got a real good idea of how much it differs since different battery-saving settings could vary that alot.

Also the x61s costs as much now as I paid for my x60s over a year ago with pretty much the same specs.

Still a bit puzzled though so besides the spec sheet, what are the differences between the x60s and the x61s?
Same monitor?
Same chassi?
Any good measurements between x60s and battery life?

I won't be able to get another x60s but considering that the price hasn't moved a bit for over a year and battery life is worse on x61s the competition is looking better and better.

(nothing against the x61s really - as said I still love my x60s and besides battery-life theres nothing (that I know of) worse with the x61s - just that the deal we're getting now isn't as good as it was back then)

Jackboot · #2 Post by **Jackboot** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:13 pm

I own an X60s (xp) and an X61s (vista).

You are mostly correct that there is no large difference between the two.

There may be a slight battery life difference between the two, and in my experience, the X61s gets better battery life. This probably has more to do with Vista than the hardware. In any case, the difference is very very minor. Both notebooks get over 8 hours on the 9-cell battery. The reviews on Cnet and notebookreview are NOT accurate in my experience. I wonder how well the power management settings in Vista were tweaked in those reviews. Also, I think the battery life during the first day of owning a Vista notebook may be poorer due to the hard drive indexing that goes on.

The biggest difference in my experience is the palm rest heat. On the X60s it is very annoying to me! The X61s hardly even gets warm. I am unsure if the difference is due to the revised palmrest design or the power management abilities of vista on the X61s. It is most likely a combination of the two. I prefer the X61s by far for this reason alone.

For you I think it is entirely a matter of cost - what is the price difference between buying an X60s and X61s?

EOMtp · #3 Post by **EOMtp** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:56 pm

There are a few differences between the X61s and the X60s which may be of interest to some people.

Related to embedded WWAN:
1a) The X61s accepts the Sierra Wireless 5725 WWAN card (EV-DO Rev. A), whereas the X60s accepts only the Rev. 0 cards.

1b) The X61s can have 3 WLAN antennas (for 802.11N) + WWAN antenna; the X60s can have 3 WLAN antennas only if it gives up the WWAN antenna.

1c) The extendable WWAN antenna on the X61s improves the EV-DO performance noticeably when the signal is weak.

Misc. other:
2) The X61s has the option of having the USB ports powered while the machine is off.

3) The granularity of the display brightness adjustment on the X61s is similar to the volume control, rather than just the 7-step range of the X60s.

4) The fan on the X61s runs far more often than the fan on the X60s does under "normal" usage.

iamdmc · #4 Post by **iamdmc** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:02 am

How about UltraLight Screen?
That's different, I think.

You also forgot one major difference: instead of a "0" there is a "1". But honestly, the performance on this baby is amazing. Near desktop on an X61s. It gets about the same Windows Experience rating for graphics as my Desktop's DirectX 10 graphics card.

Another little tidbit: 800MHz FSB not 667MHz.

The point is that it's the little things that count, and the X61s has all those little things that make it worthwhile. I hope they don't release laptops with holographic screens and projection keyboards anytime soon, because I like this little thing and would like to have it for at least a few years

#5 Post by **ryengineer** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:23 am

Jackboot wrote:snip.........There may be a slight battery life difference between the two, and in my experience, the X61s gets better battery life. This probably has more to do with Vista than the hardware. In any case, the difference is very very minor. Both notebooks get over 8 hours on the 9-cell battery.............snip

I am little surprised as I have found the battery life relatively better on X60T (XP Tablet) than X61s (Vista Ultimate), the latter OS consumed battery life very quickly. Tests with Windows XP revealed marginally equal result on X61s.

Pardon my ignorance but I don't think 9-cell battery exists. Also, FYI it's not Vista or the remodelled palmrest, it's the redesigned fan working in conjunction with the new Intels chipset that has reduced the fan noise and cut down the heat issues, making this thinkpad more consistent than it's predecessor.

#6 Post by **ryengineer** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:27 am

iamdmc wrote:How about UltraLight Screen?
That's different, I think......snip

It was readily available on X60s as well.

To the OP, new technology does introduce new features, it's up to you differentiate if those changes are significant or insignificant to you.

brumwald · #7 Post by **brumwald** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:56 am

Thanks all, been very helpfull.

Seems as it will be an X61s, just hope I can find it in stock somewhere.

Thanks again.

Jackboot · #8 Post by **Jackboot** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:04 am

ryengineer wrote:
Jackboot wrote:snip.........There may be a slight battery life difference between the two, and in my experience, the X61s gets better battery life. This probably has more to do with Vista than the hardware. In any case, the difference is very very minor. Both notebooks get over 8 hours on the 9-cell battery.............snip
I am little surprised as I have found the battery life relatively better on X60T (XP Tablet) than X61s (Vista Ultimate), the latter OS consumed battery life very quickly. Tests with Windows XP revealed marginally equal result on X61s.

Pardon my ignorance but I don't think 9-cell battery exists. Also, FYI it's not Vista or the remodelled palmrest, it's the redesigned fan working in conjunction with the new Intels chipset that has reduced the fan noise and cut down the heat issues, making this thinkpad more consistent than it's predecessor.

I'm not sure why I wrote '9-cell', must have been a typo as I meant to write 8-cell.

I really do believe that some of the palmrest heat solution can be attributed to the better power management features of Vista. In the battery manager utility on the X61s it allows you to set the wireless radio to 'max power savings' (and therefore lowest heat) whereas my X60s (xp) does not allow such a setting. Perhaps I'm wrong though and the cool palmrest is due only to the redesign. However, my model (and others without WWAN) do not have an additional fan at all AFAIK - only a new air inlet on the bottom right side of the chasis that pulls air in from the regular system fan.

Bottom line though is the X61s definitely has a cooler palmrest than the X60s!

brumwald · #9 Post by **brumwald** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:11 am

Jackboot wrote:I really do believe that some of the palmrest heat solution can be attributed to the better power management features of Vista. In the battery manager utility on the X61s it allows you to set the wireless radio to 'max power savings' (and therefore lowest heat) whereas my X60s (xp) does not allow such a setting.

You can change that in XP too. In either the wireless-network driver or in "Access Connections".
I personally don't find the hot palmrest annoying but ofcourse good if it's better in the x61s.
(note that setting it to other than max can cause incompatibility issues (connection gets dropped alot) with certain routers that doesn't support it (in access connection you can change this for each network) - such as, atleast my, FON router).

mfbernstein · #10 Post by **mfbernstein** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:11 am

brumwald wrote:Yes, theres the 64 bit CPU but the performance gain there isn't that much to boast with and all 64 bit windows version still suffer from heavy compatibility issues. Especially for a laptop thats not a must really, not bad of course, but not a must.

It's not just that it's 64-bit: at the same clock running 32-bit apps the Core 2 Duo beats the Core Duo by 10-25% on CPU intensive tasks (for instance, mp3 ripping closer to 10%, Photoshop CS closer to 25%). Not groundbreaking, but a solid incremental improvement, IMO.

rokahn · #11 Post by **rokahn** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:21 am

I don't see ability to configure a 2x3 antenna + WWLAN on X61s. Is Sierra 5725 same as the one which comes preconfigured with WLAN models from Lenovo?

Related to embedded WWAN:
1a) The X61s accepts the Sierra Wireless 5725 WWAN card (EV-DO Rev. A), whereas the X60s accepts only the Rev. 0 cards.

1b) The X61s can have 3 WLAN antennas (for 802.11N) + WWAN antenna; the X61s can have 3 WLAN antennas only if it gives up the WWAN antenna.

EOMtp · #12 Post by **EOMtp** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:00 pm

rokahn wrote:I don't see ability to configure a 2x3 antenna + WWLAN on X61s. Is Sierra 5725 same as the one which comes preconfigured with WLAN models from Lenovo?

The following two configuration options are independent of each other on the X61/s:
1) If one selects the ABGN option for WLAN, with N not disabled, then one receives a machine with the 3 WLAN antennas.
2) If one selects the Verizon Rev-A EV-DO card, then the Lenovo WWAN card is the Sierra 5725, except that the Lenovo "version" of the card does not generate a BIOS error at boot time.

rokahn · #13 Post by **rokahn** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:19 pm

What does it mean to order the ABGN with N not disabled? I don't see any configuration on Lenovo's site for "not disabling N". Is this something a salesperson would understand?

1) If one selects the ABGN option for WLAN, with N not disabled, then one receives a machine with the 3 WLAN antennas.

EOMtp · #14 Post by **EOMtp** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:40 pm

Examples of WLAN cards:
FRU #42T0825 = IBM/Atheros ABGN "N"-enabled.
FRU #42T0865 = Intel 4965AGN "N"-enabled.
FRU #42T0875 = Intel 4965AGN "N"-disabled. <<--- (Lenovo default?!)

Look at the last item on the following page and you will see the issue:
http://www.intel.com/network/connectivi ... 316286.pdf
Lenovo has been shipping (I don't know if it is by default or happenstance!) the "AG_" version in the U.S., not the "AGN" version. The "AGN" version is available; I don't know if it requires "special" request or what ...

If you speak with a sales person, then ask for the FRU # of the WLAN card being used in the machine you have configured and verify that it is "N"-enabled. If the person does not know what you mean, then ask the person to check with colleague(s)/supervisor(s) who know what that means.

Note: If you are told that the "N"-disabled version of a card can be enabled later, know that the person telling you that is mistaken -- the Intel "N"-disabled version cards can never be enabled.

apbudha · #15 Post by **apbudha** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:08 pm

EOMtp wrote:Examples of WLAN cards:
FRU #42T0825 = IBM/Atheros ABGN "N"-enabled.
FRU #42T0865 = Intel 4965AGN "N"-enabled.
FRU #42T0875 = Intel 4965AGN "N"-disabled. <<--- (Lenovo default?!)

Look at the last item on the following page and you will see the issue:
http://www.intel.com/network/connectivi ... 316286.pdf
Lenovo has been shipping (I don't know if it is by default or happenstance!) the "AG_" version in the U.S., not the "AGN" version. The "AGN" version is available; I don't know if it requires "special" request or what ...

If you speak with a sales person, then ask for the FRU # of the WLAN card being used in the machine you have configured and verify that it is "N"-enabled. If the person does not know what you mean, then ask the person to check with colleague(s)/supervisor(s) who know what that means.

Note: If you are told that the "N"-disabled version of a card can be enabled later, know that the person telling you that is mistaken -- the Intel "N"-disabled version cards can never be enabled.

I have a quote configured for a x61s with the FRU 42V8177.
anyone know if the draft N is enabled on this?

x60s vs. x61s can't se the real benifit of x61s

x60s vs. x61s can't se the real benifit of x61s

Re: x60s vs. x61s can't se the real benifit of x61s

2x3 antenna

Re: 2x3 antenna

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