Considering a Z*t; general thoughts/questions

[qviri]

Hi,

I've recently been considering the purchase of a newer Thinkpad as a home work/play machine. The X31 I have is pretty nice, but I've been having an upgrade itch. I'm also considering playing around with OS X, for which the X31 may be a touch slow. Finally, I am intrigued by the look of the widescreen and feel like trying it out.

I rather like the design of the Z series. It somehow seems cleaner than the T series. (Maybe I'm getting the wrong impression from pictures online?) I also have somewhat of a soft spot for all sorts of underdogs, and the discontinued Z series fit that.

I've been thinking specifically about the Z60t and Z61t because of their 14" screens. Between the two, I am sort of leaning towards the Z61t because I'd like to get on the Intel Core train.

Couple questions I've come up with:

- would you say that overall the Z series has a higher failure rate than average for Thinkpads?

- how, realistically, is the battery life on these machines?

- any thoughts on upgrading from a X31 (previously X21) to a Z series? I'm okay with keeping the X31 as my carry-around machine if the Z turns out to be too large. How much larger is it in real life?

- any thoughts on performance increases from X31 to Z60t? To Z61t?

- how much should I expect to pay for a used Z60t? Z61t? Z61t with 1440*900 screen? How much does the titanium lid usually add to the price?

- any other general thoughts / advices / musings?

[phoenix_one]

You asked:
- would you say that overall the Z series has a higher failure rate than average for Thinkpads?
I would say maybe a bit higher than your average ThinkPad because it was the first of the series, however, any issues you may have if the machine is still in warranty, EasyServ would take care of that. I would seriously consider adding an extended warranty or find one that comes with it.

My LCD screen died on me but in 3 days time it was already fixed and in my hands. I can't complain about the service.

- how, realistically, is the battery life on these machines?

I have been able to stretch it to 2:45 on a 6 cell. However that depends on many factors. (Wireless, Optical Drive, Hard drive access, screen brightness, etc..)

- any thoughts on upgrading from a X31 (previously X21) to a Z series? I'm okay with keeping the X31 as my carry-around machine if the Z turns out to be too large. How much larger is it in real life?

It depends how much are you willing to carry. Z is a heavy machine for a 15.4". Consider a very confortable carrying case.

- any thoughts on performance increases from X31 to Z60t? To Z61t?

That depends on what processor are currently working now, which processor you will finally get and what will be the use for it. I recomend plenty of RAM, and at least a 2Ghz Core 2 Duo. Of course, the most advance graphics video you can afford. (128MB or higher)

Me, I LOVE THE MACHINE. Despite any flaws that might have it is still a nicely built machine that kicks the butt of any flimsy HP, DELL, TOSHIBA out there. It is hefty, "built like a tank" was what popped into my mind when I got it out if the box. The only other time I had that thought it was when handling one of those Panasonic Toughbooks, of course it is not in the same leage but there is no other brand that you can make that kind of comparison.

I have the Titanium lid and let me tell you it is piece of mind to have it, the screen does not flex at all. Nice extra protection. Put side to side to any other laptop and it has a "Eat Sh*t and Die Attitude" Looks tough, is tough, any shortcomings is due to be the first of the series. I would have loved to see what a Z62 or Z63 would have been, refined, streamlined and ready to take over.

This has been my 2 cents.

[qviri]

Thanks for the input. Your Z61m seems like a nice powerful machine.

My goal here is slightly different. I do want some of the speed, but don't need the latest and fastest. I was thinking about the -t models specifically because of their 14" screens. 15.4" seems very large to me, and generally I do not like large-screened laptops because the keyboard is centered in the laptop which I find slightly unappealing. I also do not need super-powerful graphics so the GMA of -t models would do, and probably also give me a little bit more battery.

I will reinvestigate the Z61m, though I don't have an infinite budget so going for the -t which should be cheaper due to the lower (but perhaps preferable) specs may be wise.

Another thing the Z has going for it is that even the Pentium M-based Z60t uses DDR2 RAM. If I do get one, I definitely plan on topping up, what with the remarkably cheap DDR2.

My X31 right now has a 1.4 GHz Pentium M with 768 MB of RAM and a new perpendicular 80 GB 5400 rpm Seagate drive. With the Mobility Radeon 7000 chip, I think the limiting factor right now depends on the application.

I guess I'll see what the going prices on ebay are like.

[dr_st]

The 15.4" widescreens are monsters.

The 14" widescreens are much nicer, except some people complain about the screen being too short vertically.

14.1" non-widescreen may be the sweet spot (T60). But the Z60t/Z61t widescreens should also be quite compact and usable.

[Talon88]

:::

Z6xM 15.4" is very Big & Thick.

Z6xt is small & Slim, smaller than T61 WideScreen.

Hope you get the picture........!

I like my Z60t, Don't really need super fast system
on the road like Core2Duo. So i keep using my Z60t
without update to T61 14".

Weight is about 4.2 - 4.5 lbs ? after removing the DVD
writer & put back the plastic travel saver. very lite
as a 14" NB.

With proper setting & tweaking, my Z60t with WiFi on
can run 4-5 hrs at Cafe with the standard 7 Cell Batt.

So, Get a Z61t if you still can & price is good too now!

:::

[ymemuser]

snipped

You can get brand new Z61T w/celeron-M 420 in Lenovo outlet for $399 plus tax. To get 6% off go to fatwallet.com - coupons and cash back - lenovo - outlet. For some strange reason the outlet off for weekends. You need to check it at monday or some other day.

[Texadane]

I bought my Z61T 9440CTO in May 2007 and it just works!!!

I build my own on Lenovo's website and added extra memory and upgraded the HDD to a 7200RPM based on the experience and recommendation from our support guys at work. I also added the 9-cell battery and if you turn off both bluetooth and wifi you'll get over 4 hrs of playtime.
I have the titanium lid which does that I can carry the laptop around just holding the edge of the screen with no problems. I haven't tried dropping it yet, but it has survived multiple trips in my gym bag

I bought the thinkpad because our support office told me that they have worked with IBM for years and they never have any problems with them, but the HP and Dell laptop weren't as stable. They also told me to look for the z61t vs. z60* since the 61 has the dual core processor and that was worth a lot when working with multiple graphical presentations.

Hope you'll get one!

[qviri]

Thanks for the comments.

I also added the 9-cell battery and if you turn off both bluetooth and wifi you'll get over 4 hrs of playtime.

Are you using any undervolting software, and what brightness are you using it at? I think I'd prefer something closer to 5 hours and wifi on with the 9 cell.

[pianowizard]

You can get brand new Z61T w/celeron-M 420 in Lenovo outlet for $399 plus tax.

That deal is no more. I was very tempted to get one for myself but the display resolution was only 1280x800. Had it been 1440x900, I would have bought one.

qviri, if you end up getting a Z61t, you should definitely get a travel bezel. With the optical drive removed, you would shed about 0.4 lbs, and reduce power consumption.

[underclocker]

The Z61t is very high quality and light.

FYI, a Z61t with a 7 cell battery and a combo optical drive weighs exactly as much as my T40 with a 6 cell and a combo drive -> 5.0 lbs. EXACTLY.

Of course, the Z61t is much faster. But remember, the LCD is actually significantly smaller overall. 14.1" standard is much bigger than 14.1" widescreen, square inches-wize.

A Z61t is a hair thicker, a little wider (+1/2") and a little less deep (-1") than a T40.

The 7 cell battery is a little awkward, like a 9 cell on a T40. I think a very good travel compromise would be a 4 cell main battery and a 3 cell UltraBay battery.

Below are some other possibilities.

Z61t Weights (measured on a digital scale except for 3 cell battery)

lb. oz.
3.00 12.70 no batt, no optical
4.00 2.30 no batt, w/optical
4.00 10.40 7 cell, no optical (4.65 lbs.)
5.00 0.00 7 cell, w/optical (5.0 lbs.)
4.00 4.30 4 cell, no optical (4.27 lbs.)
4.00 9.90 4 cell, w/optical (4.62 lbs.)
4.00 12.60 4 cell, w/3 cell (4.79 lbs. estimated weight)
5.00 2.70 7 cell, w/3 cell (5.17 lbs. estimated weight)

3.00 12.70 Z61t bare
0.00 5.60 combo optical
0.00 13.70 7 cell 5.2Ah @ 14.4v
0.00 7.60 4 cell 2.6Ah @ 14.4v
0.00 8.30 3 cell ubay (estimated weight) 2.7Ah @ 10.8v

(Edited to correct typo's & math errors...)

[pianowizard]

underclocker, thanks for those very precise and informative measurements! I wish more people were making such measurements and posting them on this forum.

So, a Z61t without optical drive weighs just a little more than my 4.15-lb, 12.1" Dell 700m with optical drive. The Z61t is a good alternative to the X series, especially for people who prefer larger screens.

[ajkula66]

Coming from someone who doesn't care for widescreens, I'm going to say that Z61t that I've had in my house for a week has left a very favourable impression on me.

First of all, it had a very solid feel to it. Battery life (on a 4-cell) left something to be desired, but then again, I'm known for running LCD on high and having wireless on at all times. And, as solid as it appears to be (and probably is), it didn't feel heavy whatsoever. Also, I've found 1440x900 resolution on a 14" widescreen to be quite interesting, and not unpleasant at all.

If I needed a machine to take around with myself I would've kept it, widescreen or not, no questions asked. Overall, Lenovo has done well with that model in my opinion.

Hope this helps.

[qviri]

qviri, if you end up getting a Z61t, you should definitely get a travel bezel. With the optical drive removed, you would shed about 0.4 lbs, and reduce power consumption.

Actually, I was thinking to get a ultrabay battery and alternate between that and the travel bezel. I don't usually have much use for the optical drive. (Speaking after using X series for over a year.)

I'm not sure if I should opt for a Z61t. I've been using a D630 for work and while I do like the 1440*900 14" screen, it's a bit wide to be using on the lap as opposed to on the table. After the Macbook Air got released, I looked at X61s again to compare them, and started liking it. The yet-to-be-announced X300 is also looking tempting, especially due to the resolution, but the price may end up being a bit much.

The D630 can pull five hours with wireless on with the standard size battery. It seems that the 4-cell Z61t with the 3-cell ultrabay battery would have comparable if not slightly better watt-hour rating, while staying under five pounds, which does sound pretty good. I'm not fundamentally opposed to extended batteries, but I prefer them to be full-width as in the X61s. Having it only stick out for a part of the width is a bit unappealing in my eyes.

underclocker, thanks a lot for the detailed data. I'm going to try to defer the purchase until second half of the year, but it's good to have it.

[KristianJ]

underclocker, thanks for those very precise and informative measurements! I wish more people were making such measurements and posting them on this forum.

The more I think of it, a sticky thread in the general TP subforum with comprehensive weights (with and without optical drive/battery, etc) and dimensions would be quite handy, even though these are not primary concerns of mine per se.

I haven't checked my newly acquired Z60m and its weights/dimensions, but will do so when I return home from my holiday on Sunday. Like George, I have to say I am more partial to 4:3, but enjoy the potential of the WSXGA+ for side by side work on my screen (I'll have a fair bit of work to do over the next week or 2 with a couple of Office windows side by side, and after trying some of it on my T42 I feel that the extra 280 horizontal pixels will make a lot of difference). It weighs around 3 and a bit kilos (about 7lb) according to my (only accurate to the nearest 50 grams or 1/9 lb) digital scales at work, but it doesn't feel that heavy nor a massive size. But yet it still feels solid.

I intend to do a comprehensive photo shoot of the 2 laptops next week to show dimension differences.

[ryengineer]

snip....How much does the titanium lid usually add to the price?....snip

Z series thinkpad was my 1st lenovo-made notebook in 2005, build quality was very robust, it had titanium lid which was nice but added more weight to the machine, today titanium lid may not add anything to the price but at that time it had more value than a classic black finish.