Vista on T61 is the SUCK!

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T23_Owner · #31 Post by **T23_Owner** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:33 pm

Ok so I had the Lenovo HD SATA Slot drive in there instead of the dvd drive and when I put the dvd drive back in Vista says there is no driver for it. WHAT HAPPENED? I have been using it the whole time. I even installed the gear driver but to no avail. HELP.

T23_Owner · #32 Post by **T23_Owner** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:50 pm

Fixed the DVD problem. Here is the solution for anyone running into this in the future.

The CD drive or the DVD drive does not work as expected after you upgrade a computer to Windows Vista

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/929461

#33 Post by **erik** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:11 pm

danny_isr wrote:So when you guys saying 64bit which version exactly you referring too (name wise) ? there Business 64 and Vista Ultimate .

will Lenovo (or Microsoft) upgrade me from 32 to 64 and any idea how much that cost ?

i bought my T61p with ultimate 32 and now have ultimate 64. business 64 and ultimate 64 should be the same speed since the differences are in the add-ons and not the core OS.

the cost for me to upgrade was $5 (plus tax) via this method.

brentpresley · #34 Post by **brentpresley** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:23 pm

danny_isr wrote:So when you guys saying 64bit which version exactly you referring too (name wise) ? there Business 64 and Vista Ultimate .

will Lenovo (or Microsoft) upgrade me from 32 to 64 and any idea how much that cost ?

thanks Dan

Any of the 64-bit versions. They all use the same kernel. Everything else is just window dressing (pun intended).

caseyse · #35 Post by **caseyse** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:05 pm

<<Vista ... is the SUCK!>>

Beautiful. I couldn't have said it any better.

T23_Owner · #36 Post by **T23_Owner** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:57 am

Nope. I was right the first time. VISTA SUCKS. Can't get crap to work. Frankly I think this thinkpad is starting to suck. Mainly because of the crappy nvidia drivers that conflict with every freaking thing multimedia. No quicktime, issues in media center. ARRRGGGHH. I've installed every [censored] version of windows since I got this thing and nothing but issues. I love thinkpad but I might just end up with a Macbook pro before weeks end if this keeps up.

barrywohl · #37 Post by **barrywohl** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:04 am

T23_Owner wrote: issues in media center.

I had Media Center issues until I turned off mouse trails. I found the solution on this forum.

#38 Post by **erik** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:45 am

T23_Owner wrote:Nope. I was right the first time. VISTA SUCKS. Can't get crap to work. Frankly I think this thinkpad is starting to suck. Mainly because of the crappy nvidia drivers that conflict with every freaking thing multimedia. No quicktime, issues in media center. ARRRGGGHH. I've installed every [censored] version of windows since I got this thing and nothing but issues. I love thinkpad but I might just end up with a Macbook pro before weeks end if this keeps up.

does microsoft offer any nvidia drivers for your GPU via windows update? i'm currently using a WHQL display driver downloaded via windows update and everything you complain about above is working perfectly for me.

T23_Owner · #39 Post by **T23_Owner** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:26 am

erik wrote:
T23_Owner wrote:Nope. I was right the first time. VISTA SUCKS. Can't get crap to work. Frankly I think this thinkpad is starting to suck. Mainly because of the crappy nvidia drivers that conflict with every freaking thing multimedia. No quicktime, issues in media center. ARRRGGGHH. I've installed every [censored] version of windows since I got this thing and nothing but issues. I love thinkpad but I might just end up with a Macbook pro before weeks end if this keeps up.
does microsoft offer any nvidia drivers for your GPU via windows update? i'm currently using a WHQL display driver downloaded via windows update and everything you complain about above is working perfectly for me.

What graphics card do you have?

T23_Owner · #40 Post by **T23_Owner** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:43 am

Go to apple.com with firefox and click on the ipod nanos image and when the video starts tell me if it crashes.

#41 Post by **erik** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:48 am

T23_Owner wrote:What graphics card do you have?

again, it's an nvidia quadro FX 570M. i think i said that already...

T23_Owner wrote:But what graphic card do you have. I am still getting crashes when I view quicktime video in firefox.

erik wrote:all current T61p models have the nvidia quadro FX 570M.

#42 Post by **erik** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:50 am

T23_Owner wrote:Go to apple.com with firefox and click on the ipod nanos image and when the video starts tell me if it crashes.

no crashes whatsoever. like i said before...

erik wrote:i'm running firefox 2.0.0.8, itunes 7.4.3.1, and quicktime 7.2.0.240 -- all of which work together as advertised. as a quick example, i can watch the ipod touch intro video either embedded or separate in firefox with no hangups whatsoever.

Hellbore · #43 Post by **Hellbore** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:51 pm

It's probably user error

If it's so bad why haven't you sent it in for repair or at least talked to tech support? There's only so much the forum nerds can do for you, if there is a legitimate problem then at some point you will need to get Lenovo to support you and fix it. It is their responsibility after all, while you are under warranty.

T23_Owner · #44 Post by **T23_Owner** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:11 pm

Hellbore wrote:It's probably user error

If it's so bad why haven't you sent it in for repair or at least talked to tech support? There's only so much the forum nerds can do for you, if there is a legitimate problem then at some point you will need to get Lenovo to support you and fix it. It is their responsibility after all, while you are under warranty.

Its a well documented problem with NVIDIA and Quicktime. Not really user error. I have the NV140 graphics so that is probably why it doesn't work for me. What is lenovo going to do? Replace the keyboard???

T23_Owner · #45 Post by **T23_Owner** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:12 pm

erik wrote:
T23_Owner wrote:What graphics card do you have?
again, it's an nvidia quadro FX 570M. i think i said that already...

You did say that, sorry. Been feverishly installing software trying to get this working and peeking at the thread every once in a while. I guess that is why it works for you. I have the Quadro NVS 140M.

brentpresley · #46 Post by **brentpresley** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:16 pm

Kinda pisses me off how people are blaming Vista for nVidia's problems.

MS has been on their a$$ for 3 YEARS now to write proper drivers for Vista (Alphas, Betas, and now the RTM).

Nvidia just can't get their crap straight, don't blame MS for that.

Hellbore · #47 Post by **Hellbore** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:48 pm

Argh... Well it figures it would be Nvidia's fault, they need to get their chit together over there. It seems to me like Microsoft is doing a pretty darn good job on their end. It's a shame they get blamed for Nvidia's crappy drivers. What is Microsoft supposed to do, go ahead and write drivers for them? They don't have the inside info and manpower to start doing everyone else's job for them.

#48 Post by **erik** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:59 pm

T23_Owner wrote:You did say that, sorry. Been feverishly installing software trying to get this working and peeking at the thread every once in a while. I guess that is why it works for you. I have the Quadro NVS 140M.

it's cool. you should definitely check for WHQL-tested nvidia drivers via windows update. i know that the drivers on lenovo's site are tested by lenovo but i could care less about that. compatibility with vista is the main goal here.

brentpresley · #49 Post by **brentpresley** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:43 pm

Just as a follow-up on this:

I've used Vista (32 and 64) on both ATI and Nvidia-equipped machines.

Invariable, the ATI machines function smoothly and rarely give me a problem (unless I'm overclocking the system).

The Nvidia-based machines have been headaches about 50% of the time. The drivers do not play nice with OpenGL and the earlier revisions were prone to crashing.

The have improved in recent months, but not to the point where I would recommend an Nvidia card on a machine running Vista.

T23_Owner · #50 Post by **T23_Owner** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:51 pm

Well after 3 days of headaches here is what I have found out.

Windows XP

BAD
- Its old and clunky. Its 32bit not 64 (all I have).
- NVIDIA Drivers cause major problems with quicktime in XP. Not compatible.
- Can't use Ready Boost.
- SD Card won't read SDHC cards

Good
- Its fast.
- Compatible with most if not all software.

Windows Vista 32bit

BAD
- Slow as hell
- Bug ridden
- Heavy hard drive access all the time

Good
- Compatible with most sofware

Windows Vista 64bit

BAD
- BUG ridden
- Media Center won't work with hauppauge 950. Works with SP1b though, proving its microsoft.
- 64bit software and drivers hard to find.
- Casper 4.0 crashes whole system to BSOD.

GOOD
- Fast if you don't install SP1. For some reason I had runaway processes with SP1b that were killing my HD.
- Readyboost adds speed

So looks like I am going to settle with Vista 64bit with standard updates and no SP1b. I will just have to live without media center, casper 4.0 and a few other items. Will wait for updates as they appear. Lets cross fingers for microsoft to fix this crap.

Still love this thinkpad though. I just can't bring myself to buy that macbook pro piece of overpriced crap no matter how good the OS is.

Eric Giles · #51 Post by **Eric Giles** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:36 pm

I am glad others here have had good experiences with Vista, but my T61p with Vista Home Premium original preload is the most unstable Thinkpad I have ever owned. Internet Explorer locks up constantly, and disabling Readyboost and Readydrive doesn't really fix it. I even resorted to SP1 beta and although there are some speed increases, it still freezes at times. It is very, very frustrating to the point where I won't even use it. If someone would sell me a copy of their Windows XP Home/Pro recovery discs I would gladly install it and be rid of Vista for good.

In my opinion, it's just not ready-or at least there is something with the Lenovo drivers that is not fully compatible. I had an X61t for a short time with Vista Business preload and it did the exact same thing as my T61p, so I know for a fact I don't have a flaky machine.

I will probably just pay Lenovo the $50 they are asking for a copy of the XP recovery discs and be done with it-as it stands, my T61p is unusable.

brentpresley · #52 Post by **brentpresley** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:28 am

Eric Giles wrote:I am glad others here have had good experiences with Vista, but my T61p with Vista Home Premium original preload is the most unstable Thinkpad I have ever owned. Internet Explorer locks up constantly, and disabling Readyboost and Readydrive doesn't really fix it. I even resorted to SP1 beta and although there are some speed increases, it still freezes at times. It is very, very frustrating to the point where I won't even use it. If someone would sell me a copy of their Windows XP Home/Pro recovery discs I would gladly install it and be rid of Vista for good.

In my opinion, it's just not ready-or at least there is something with the Lenovo drivers that is not fully compatible. I had an X61t for a short time with Vista Business preload and it did the exact same thing as my T61p, so I know for a fact I don't have a flaky machine.

I will probably just pay Lenovo the $50 they are asking for a copy of the XP recovery discs and be done with it-as it stands, my T61p is unusable.

Again, don't blame MS for other companies BAD DRIVERS.

I run Vista 64 in a PLAIN VANILLA install. NONE of that Lenovo CRAP that ships with their laptops. ZERO.

Tried all the Lenovo drivers and it just bloated up my install and slowed everything down (worst was the bluetooth drivers and the "security suite" - UGH).

T23_Owner · #53 Post by **T23_Owner** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:33 am

brentpresley wrote:
Eric Giles wrote:I am glad others here have had good experiences with Vista, but my T61p with Vista Home Premium original preload is the most unstable Thinkpad I have ever owned. Internet Explorer locks up constantly, and disabling Readyboost and Readydrive doesn't really fix it. I even resorted to SP1 beta and although there are some speed increases, it still freezes at times. It is very, very frustrating to the point where I won't even use it. If someone would sell me a copy of their Windows XP Home/Pro recovery discs I would gladly install it and be rid of Vista for good.

In my opinion, it's just not ready-or at least there is something with the Lenovo drivers that is not fully compatible. I had an X61t for a short time with Vista Business preload and it did the exact same thing as my T61p, so I know for a fact I don't have a flaky machine.

I will probably just pay Lenovo the $50 they are asking for a copy of the XP recovery discs and be done with it-as it stands, my T61p is unusable.

Again, don't blame MS for other companies BAD DRIVERS.

I run Vista 64 in a PLAIN VANILLA install. NONE of that Lenovo CRAP that ships with their laptops. ZERO.

Tried all the Lenovo drivers and it just bloated up my install and slowed everything down (worst was the bluetooth drivers and the "security suite" - UGH).

Umm, dude, you are not going to let microsoft off the hook that easy. I gots a laundry list of broken crap in Vista and its getting bigger.

SLoweCSL · #54 Post by **SLoweCSL** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:42 am

Speaking as someone who has his T61 back at the depot for repair for a THIRD time. I have been unable to get a finger on the problem with this Lenovo.

I tend to think the problem is a combination of the Vista drivers and the included ThinVantage software that comes on the system. It seems that the majority of the people not having Blue Screen issues are the ones who installed the system fresh from a separately purchased copy of Vista.

All I know is that this system has been the most troublesome system I've ever worked on. Prior to sending my system back for it's third visit for repair, it Bluescreened right out of the box it come in from it's second repair. I didn't even get a chance to load any updates or software and the troubles were already showing up.

All I know is I'm running Vista on multiple Dell laptops and desktops and they have been Bluescreen free. I wish Lenovo shipped the OS media like Dell does so you can do a fresh install.

I think it's stupid to buy a system with an OS, that if you want to do a totally clean install, you have to spend cash on top of the money you spent for the system purchase to buy the OS a second time.

T23_Owner · #55 Post by **T23_Owner** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:45 am

Just an FYI. If your machine goes to depot repair 3 times and is still not fixed you are entitled to a new machine. You must simply escalate to level 3. Good luck.

brentpresley · #56 Post by **brentpresley** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:43 am

T23_Owner wrote:
brentpresley wrote:
Again, don't blame MS for other companies BAD DRIVERS.

I run Vista 64 in a PLAIN VANILLA install. NONE of that Lenovo CRAP that ships with their laptops. ZERO.

Tried all the Lenovo drivers and it just bloated up my install and slowed everything down (worst was the bluetooth drivers and the "security suite" - UGH).

Umm, dude, you are not going to let microsoft off the hook that easy. I gots a laundry list of broken crap in Vista and its getting bigger.

Let me be CRYSTAL CLEAR - for every 1 problem that MS is responsible for in Vista - there are 10 caused by 4hitty drivers written by other companies.

I know it is POPULAR to Vista bash recently, but the FACT of the matter is the OS is head and shoulders better than anything, including XP, that they have ever released.

You can blame them all you want, but that is not going to change the fact that the majority (not ALL, but MOST) of the problems with vista are not a result of their code. And they can't fully control the drivers that other companies write.

#57 Post by **erik** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:16 am

brentpresley wrote:I know it is POPULAR to Vista bash recently, but the FACT of the matter is the OS is head and shoulders better than anything, including XP, that they have ever released.

i'm tired of all the vista bashing, too. vista is based off of server 2003, not XP, so reliability and security should prove to be the best ever released.

brentpresley · #58 Post by **brentpresley** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:53 am

erik wrote:
brentpresley wrote:I know it is POPULAR to Vista bash recently, but the FACT of the matter is the OS is head and shoulders better than anything, including XP, that they have ever released.
i'm tired of all the vista bashing, too. vista is based off of server 2003, not XP, so reliability and security should prove to be the best ever released.

Vista x64 is even better. It's built off the 64-bit W2K3 kernel, which was a GROUND UP development for MS. Probably why (assuming you have enough RAM) that it is faster and smoother. I would be MS dumped a lot of the legacy code (I KNOW they stripped out the 16-bit compatibility stuff - that only works in Vista 32).

T23_Owner · #59 Post by **T23_Owner** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:06 am

erik wrote:
brentpresley wrote:I know it is POPULAR to Vista bash recently, but the FACT of the matter is the OS is head and shoulders better than anything, including XP, that they have ever released.
i'm tired of all the vista bashing, too. vista is based off of server 2003, not XP, so reliability and security should prove to be the best ever released.

Well you are definately correct in that it is the best windows OS ever released. Not going to argue with you there. That is a fact. But there is another fact. Its not the best os out there, infact it is rather buggy and limits alot of functionality of the os and computer. Apple does not have this problem. The problem is microsoft needs to put more people on the project and get it done. Its been yrs since vista was first announced and still can't get simple stuff to work. I would say that is a problem.

What am I running now? Vista 64 bit. Am I happy? Kind of. Still has lots of problems but to use my thinkpad its worth it. I will just wait for fixes. Don't really have a choice I guess.

PS: If we don't bash the problems in vista, nobody will fix them. Think about it.

brentpresley · #60 Post by **brentpresley** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:17 am

T23_Owner wrote:
erik wrote: i'm tired of all the vista bashing, too. vista is based off of server 2003, not XP, so reliability and security should prove to be the best ever released.

Well you are definately correct in that it is the best windows OS ever released. Not going to argue with you there. That is a fact. But there is another fact. Its not the best os out there, infact it is rather buggy and limits alot of functionality of the os and computer. Apple does not have this problem. The problem is microsoft needs to put more people on the project and get it done. Its been yrs since vista was first announced and still can't get simple stuff to work. I would say that is a problem.

What am I running now? Vista 64 bit. Am I happy? Kind of. Still has lots of problems but to use my thinkpad its worth it. I will just wait for fixes. Don't really have a choice I guess.

PS: If we don't bash the problems in vista, nobody will fix them. Think about it.

Please don't bring up apple. They didn't actually WRITE their own OS. They simplly piggybacked the work of thousands of Linux developers, put some pretty lipstick on it, and called it done.

Trust me - get rid of the Lenovo CRAP, update all the Vista updates (not the pre-release SP1, however), and you will be a much happier man than you ever were w/ XP.

Vista on T61 is the SUCK!

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