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Stereo Re-mix thread (was T61/p Sound Recording?)

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mixz1
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Stereo Re-mix thread (was T61/p Sound Recording?)

#1 Post by mixz1 » Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:47 pm

The recording properties for the SoundMax audio system in this machine lists "microphone" as the only audio input source for recording and it appears to be so. I recognize that the T61/p has no line input, but on my other TPs and my desktop I can record "internally", i.e. record a sound source like an audio stream or audio CD into the little sound recorder app or into Nero Wave Editor. I can't figure out how to do this on my T61. Am I missing something?

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#2 Post by mixz1 » Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:20 am

35 views and no ideas?

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#3 Post by generalsu » Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:21 pm

There's been a discussion about this in other forums. The stereo mix was disabled probably on purpose by the influence from the RIAA to prevent recording from licensed sources like Internet radio channels. I did a few driver tweaking and it didn't work. Looks like Soundmax sealed stereo mix for good on the T61p.

We should keep this thread alive since I would like to find out about the solution to this problem.

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#4 Post by meditate2001 » Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:18 pm

no no, i think the driver messed it up. i dont think the riaa or any other organisation can force them to do so. also i think soundmax came from asia...

it worked for sure on the t60
unfortunatly it seems since several weeks it also disappeared in my system. but also i bought several weeks ago the t61.. so i am not sure anymore if it really ever worked on my t61... 99% sure...

that would be an outrage...

have you guys tried to de- and reinstall all the drivers ?(also kb888111)

?
T61p / 2,4 Ghz, Nvidia 570m, 2GB, WinXP
Formerly: T20, T21, T22, T40, T42, T60, T61

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#5 Post by generalsu » Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:37 pm

de and reinstall the sound drivers including the HD audio driver from Microsoft gives the same result. Stereo mix is still disabled. Why is there so many things messed up with the T61/p?

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#6 Post by generalsu » Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:52 pm

I tried installing the sound driver for T60/p and it would not let me.

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#7 Post by generalsu » Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:27 am

Here is part of the ADIHDAUD.INF file that involves the stereo mix option:

----------------------------------------------
HKR,AD1984\\Disable, MicBP, 1, 00
HKR,AD1984\\Disable, OutR, 1, 01 ;; Disable Stereo Mix Capture Node
HKR,AD1984, "MonoMux", 1, 0x00
HKR,AD1984, "DACLatency", 0x00010001, 0x00000078
HKR,AD1984, Cmplx, 1, 01 ; AD1984 is Complex only
HKR,AD1984,SPDIFWithMaster, 1, 01 ; Combined SPDIF control tracking Master
HKR,AD1984, MicBoostValue, 0x00010001, 0x00000020
HKR,AD1984, PortMicBias, 0x00010001, 0xfffff44f
HKR,GlobalSettings,DisableHpShutsOffRearSpeaker,1,01; Disable HP muting
HKR,GlobalSettings, VrefLatency, 1, F8, 00, 00, 00 ; MicBiasDelay latency 250ms
----------------------------------------------

As you can see, the stereo mix is purposefully disabled here. The ADIHDAUD.INF file is part of the sound driver that came from Lenovo.

If that's not on purpose then somebody tell me what is?

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Thank you generalsu

#8 Post by mixz1 » Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:05 am

Thanks. That's a great piece of investigating. I parsed the ADIHDAUD.INF file for "disable". Here are the relevent sections:

;AD1981 specific disables.

HKR,AD1981\\Disable, "PortFV", 1, 01 ; 00 or missing means enable (Port F)
HKR,AD1981\\Disable, "MonR", 1, 01 ;
HKR,AD1981\\Disable, "MicBP", 1, 01 ;
HKR,AD1981, "HPWithMaster", 1, 01 ; Associate headphone volume with front master volume.
HKR,AD1981, "Cmplx", 1, 01 ; Build Complex device (Render\Capture)
HKR,AD1981, "JackSense", 0x00010001, 0x00001040 ; Value for legacy mute table
HKR,AD1981, "MonoWithMaster", 1, 01 ; Slave Mono out volume with front master volume.
HKR,AD1981, "MicBoostValue", 0x00010001, 0x00000020
HKR,AD1981, "MasVMax", 0x00010001, 0x00000000 ; Max is 0 db
HKR,PowerSettings,"PM_Power_Mode", 1, 01
HKR,PowerSettings,"PM_Last_Valid_Power_Mode_AC", 1, 00
HKR,PowerSettings,"PM_Last_Valid_Power_Mode_BATT", 1, 01
HKR,GlobalSettings, S3Latency,0x00010001, 0x000001F4
HKR,GlobalSettings, DisableTimerResolution,1,01 ;disable Timer Resolution
HKR,GlobalSettings,MagicNumber,1,00,00,00,60 ; AEAUDIO
HKR,GlobalSettings,AELic0E,1,01,00,00,00 ;; AEAUDIO



HKR,AD1984\\Disable, MicBP, 1, 00
HKR,AD1984\\Disable, OutR, 1, 01 ;; Disable Stereo Mix Capture Node
HKR,AD1984, "MonoMux", 1, 0x00
HKR,AD1984, "DACLatency", 0x00010001, 0x00000078
HKR,AD1984, Cmplx, 1, 01 ; AD1984 is Complex only
HKR,AD1984,SPDIFWithMaster, 1, 01 ; Combined SPDIF control tracking Master
HKR,AD1984, MicBoostValue, 0x00010001, 0x00000020
HKR,AD1984, PortMicBias, 0x00010001, 0xfffff44f
HKR,GlobalSettings,DisableHpShutsOffRearSpeaker,1,01; Disable HP muting
HKR,GlobalSettings, VrefLatency, 1, F8, 00, 00, 00 ; MicBiasDelay latency 250ms


;IntHdAudGuid.RearLineOutDac
HKLM,%MediaCategories%\%HdAudGuidRearLineOutDac%,Name,,%RearLineOutDacName%
HKLM,%MediaCategories%\%HdAudGuidRearLineOutDac%,Display,1,00,00,00,00
HKLM,%MediaCategories%\%HdAudGuidDisableDigitalOutput%,Name,,%DisableDigitalOutputName%
HKLM,%MediaCategories%\%HdAudGuidDisableDigitalOutput%,Display,1,00,00,00,00
HKLM,%MediaCategories%\%HdAudGuidFrontHPOutDac%,Name,,%FrontHPOutDacName%
HKLM,%MediaCategories%\%HdAudGuidFrontHPOutDac%,Display,1,00,00,00,00


; localizable
DisableDigitalOutputName ="Disable Digital Output"
HdAudioDeviceDescription = "ADI UAA Function Driver for High Definition Audio"


; guids for rear line out
HdAudGuidRearLineOutDac= "{EEF86A90-3742-4974-B8D2-5370E1C540F6}"
HdAudGuidFrontHPOutDac = "{497B34AD-D67F-411c-8076-80D5B4250D67}"
HdAudGuidDisableDigitalOutput = "{F06BB67D-5C2F-48ad-A307-B449E3B217D6}"

So the obvious question is, will some judicious tweaking of the inf file restore the recording functionality?

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#9 Post by generalsu » Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:36 pm

You see this line:

HKR,AD1984\\Disable, OutR, 1, 01 ;; Disable Stereo Mix Capture Node

That line specifically disables the stereo mix option. To enable it, just do this:

HKR,AD1984\\Disable, OutR, 1, 00 ;; Disable Stereo Mix Capture Node

So now the stereo mix option shows up on the recording controls, but guess what? You still cannot record from stereo mix. Like I said before, it is sealed by SoundMAX for good. Now, whether this is a hardware or software restriction, I have no idea. My 2 cents say it's hardware.

There's a software workaround for this using Virtual Audio Cable. it installs a virtual audio device so that you can record what you hear just like stereo mix. The only problem with that is, it's way more complicated and more expensive. If you don't know VAC, just google it.

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#10 Post by bill bolton » Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:38 pm

meditate2001 wrote:i dont think the riaa or any other organisation can force them to do so.
Think again!

Recording Industry vs The People

Cheers,

Bill B.

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#11 Post by meditate2001 » Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:56 pm

thats just horrible....welcome 1984 ! :evil:
T61p / 2,4 Ghz, Nvidia 570m, 2GB, WinXP
Formerly: T20, T21, T22, T40, T42, T60, T61

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Thanks again generalsu

#12 Post by mixz1 » Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:53 pm

I can attest to the fact the Virtual Audio Cable works. Thank you for the information. As you stated, it has a bit of a learning curve, but once you get it, it does exactly what it promises.

http://nrcde.ru/music/software/eng/vac.html

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#13 Post by eecon » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:19 pm

This thread should be made a Sticky ..... If audio capture has been permanently disabled then everyone should know this before purchase.

How are we supposed to use Lenovo ThinkPads now to edit family movies or watch "and listen" to TV with a USB external tuner?
Two - T61p 15.4" WS T9300 2.5Ghz units, August 2008 08/08 Builds + Nvidia FX570M GPUs, One - T42 15" Flexview 1.8GHz + ATI GPU for travel, Two - T500 15.4" T9600 & T9400 CPUs with ATI HD3650 GPUs, One - Stupidly Fast W520 15.6" i7-2860QM + Nvidia 2000M GPU + Series 3 Dock w/USB 3.0

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#14 Post by mixz1 » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:25 pm

I agree with eecon. I also wonder if other manufacturers have done this too. Do the new HP, Dells, Compaqs and Toshibas have this same "defect"?

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#15 Post by eecon » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:32 pm

mixz1 wrote:I agree with eecon. I also wonder if other manufacturers have done this too. Do the new HP, Dells, Compaqs and Toshibas have this same "defect"?
Good question about other mfgs.

Please Administrator .... please consider making this thread a Sticky.

Thank you.
Two - T61p 15.4" WS T9300 2.5Ghz units, August 2008 08/08 Builds + Nvidia FX570M GPUs, One - T42 15" Flexview 1.8GHz + ATI GPU for travel, Two - T500 15.4" T9600 & T9400 CPUs with ATI HD3650 GPUs, One - Stupidly Fast W520 15.6" i7-2860QM + Nvidia 2000M GPU + Series 3 Dock w/USB 3.0

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#16 Post by eyecon82 » Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:00 pm

eecon wrote:How are we supposed to use Lenovo ThinkPads now to edit family movies or watch "and listen" to TV with a USB external tuner?
I'm confused..how does this effect us being able to watch and listen to tv with a usb tuner?

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#17 Post by NikoJR » Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:08 pm

eecon wrote:This thread should be made a Sticky ..... If audio capture has been permanently disabled then everyone should know this before purchase.

How are we supposed to use Lenovo ThinkPads now to edit family movies or watch "and listen" to TV with a USB external tuner?
Totally Agree...This makes me furious! :evil:

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#18 Post by eecon » Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:09 pm

eyecon82 wrote:
eecon wrote:How are we supposed to use Lenovo ThinkPads now to edit family movies or watch "and listen" to TV with a USB external tuner?
I'm confused..how does this effect us being able to watch and listen to tv with a usb tuner?
The Video only will be displayed .... the audio stream is not mapped through the ThinkPad's audio card so no sound.

If you have a T60 or T61 working with any USB TV tuner using Windows XP or Vista (non-MMC versions), please share how you did this with everyone here.

Thanks.
Two - T61p 15.4" WS T9300 2.5Ghz units, August 2008 08/08 Builds + Nvidia FX570M GPUs, One - T42 15" Flexview 1.8GHz + ATI GPU for travel, Two - T500 15.4" T9600 & T9400 CPUs with ATI HD3650 GPUs, One - Stupidly Fast W520 15.6" i7-2860QM + Nvidia 2000M GPU + Series 3 Dock w/USB 3.0

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#19 Post by eyecon82 » Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:15 pm

oh no..this is not good...i just ordered a USB tuner online...what is the point if we can't listen to the tv? this is bad

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#20 Post by eecon » Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:38 pm

eyecon82 wrote:oh no..this is not good...i just ordered a USB tuner online...what is the point if we can't listen to the tv? this is bad
That is why I'm lobbying our Admisinstrator to make this thread a STICKY to alert everyone of this tragedy regarding the newer laptops.

Hopefully a fix is in the works for my T61 ..... my 3 year old T42 does not have this kind of issue.
Two - T61p 15.4" WS T9300 2.5Ghz units, August 2008 08/08 Builds + Nvidia FX570M GPUs, One - T42 15" Flexview 1.8GHz + ATI GPU for travel, Two - T500 15.4" T9600 & T9400 CPUs with ATI HD3650 GPUs, One - Stupidly Fast W520 15.6" i7-2860QM + Nvidia 2000M GPU + Series 3 Dock w/USB 3.0

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#21 Post by eyecon82 » Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:44 pm

there must be some hack available for this

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#22 Post by eecon » Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:48 pm

eyecon82 wrote:there must be some hack available for this
See Generalsu above about using Virtual Audio Cable, but this whole deal about the SoundMAX being factory crippled stinks.
Two - T61p 15.4" WS T9300 2.5Ghz units, August 2008 08/08 Builds + Nvidia FX570M GPUs, One - T42 15" Flexview 1.8GHz + ATI GPU for travel, Two - T500 15.4" T9600 & T9400 CPUs with ATI HD3650 GPUs, One - Stupidly Fast W520 15.6" i7-2860QM + Nvidia 2000M GPU + Series 3 Dock w/USB 3.0

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#23 Post by specularius » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:41 pm

I wonder if this would be a viable work around?
SB Audigy2 ZS
current T61P 6459CTO XPP/ replaced an A30 Win2000/

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#24 Post by eecon » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:52 pm

specularius wrote:I wonder if this would be a viable work around?
SB Audigy2 ZS
My guess the key here would be it's ability to over-ride the lock Lenovo is now apparently putting on their laptops ability to capture and/or play audio from external sources like USB TV Tuner devices or your own home video camera.

Anyone else care to chime in here?
Two - T61p 15.4" WS T9300 2.5Ghz units, August 2008 08/08 Builds + Nvidia FX570M GPUs, One - T42 15" Flexview 1.8GHz + ATI GPU for travel, Two - T500 15.4" T9600 & T9400 CPUs with ATI HD3650 GPUs, One - Stupidly Fast W520 15.6" i7-2860QM + Nvidia 2000M GPU + Series 3 Dock w/USB 3.0

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#25 Post by mixz1 » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:52 pm

specularius wrote:I wonder if this would be a viable work around?
SB Audigy2 ZS
Great! Buy a 2 grand notebook and have to spend another $135. Forgive the sarcasm.

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#26 Post by pae77 » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:20 pm

Instead of work arounds, imo, this issue needs to be treated as a defect that needs to be brought to the attention of Lenovo support. If enough people complain about it, perhaps they'll provide a fix.
HP DV8t | Intel i7-Q 720 | 6GB (DDR3 1333) RAM | 1 TB (500GB Seagate 7200 rpm x2)| GeForce GT 230M (1GB) | 18.4" FHD | SuperMulti 8X w Lightscribe | FP Reader | Bluetooth | HDTV Tuner | Win 7 Ultimate x64. Backup: T61p (8891-CTO)

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#27 Post by eecon » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:35 pm

pae77 wrote:Instead of work arounds, imo, this issue needs to be treated as a defect that needs to be brought to the attention of Lenovo support. If enough people complain about it, perhaps they'll provide a fix.
I'll soon be on it like a dog after a stick:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=53194
Two - T61p 15.4" WS T9300 2.5Ghz units, August 2008 08/08 Builds + Nvidia FX570M GPUs, One - T42 15" Flexview 1.8GHz + ATI GPU for travel, Two - T500 15.4" T9600 & T9400 CPUs with ATI HD3650 GPUs, One - Stupidly Fast W520 15.6" i7-2860QM + Nvidia 2000M GPU + Series 3 Dock w/USB 3.0

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#28 Post by erik » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:39 pm

eecon wrote:I'll soon be on it like a dog after a stick:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=53194
please keep all discussion regarding this issue in one thread so that if we do decide to make it a sticky then everything is compiled in one place.   another moderator locked your thread for this reason.

thanks for understanding.
ThinkStation P700 | ThinkPad X1C7

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#29 Post by eecon » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:48 pm

erik wrote:
eecon wrote:I'll soon be on it like a dog after a stick:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=53194
please keep all discussion regarding this issue in one thread so that if we do decide to make it a sticky then everything is compiled in one place.   another moderator locked your thread for this reason.

thanks for understanding.
Sorry about the duplicate post ... I will stick to this thread until I contact Lenovo.

Since I have a 4 year onsite warranty plus damage protection, maybe I'll just ask Lenovo to send someone to my home out here in the deep woods and let them pull their own hair out trying to get my T61's SoundMAX to capture audio while sitting next to my T42 (that works great with the same external USB TV tuner).

Stay tuned .... excuse the pun :)
Two - T61p 15.4" WS T9300 2.5Ghz units, August 2008 08/08 Builds + Nvidia FX570M GPUs, One - T42 15" Flexview 1.8GHz + ATI GPU for travel, Two - T500 15.4" T9600 & T9400 CPUs with ATI HD3650 GPUs, One - Stupidly Fast W520 15.6" i7-2860QM + Nvidia 2000M GPU + Series 3 Dock w/USB 3.0

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#30 Post by generalsu » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:06 am

As for calling the Tech Support in Atlanta, Georgia, forget about it. They have no idea what stereo mix is and will not even try to help you out. I think they are paid to keep their mouth shut about this issue. I don't think this issue is a defect, but rather a copyright implementation to prevent people from snatching protected audio sources like Internet radio, Youtube and so on. If you look way above this thread on my post about the INF file, you'll see that the stereo mix option was purposefully disabled by SoundMAX. Changing the values on the INF file will not work even though the stereo mix option does appear on the recording control.

As for whether this problem occurs on newer laptops and even desktops, I am not so sure, but according to other forums, Gateway MT6821 has stereo mix disabled and Windows Vista also has stereo mix disabled by default. I believe most newer laptops will not have stereo mix as a recording option.

I agree this should be a sticky for anyone considering a laptop purchase, especially if they work extensively with audio. Disabling stereo mix is just wrong since other people use the feature for capturing their own audio instead of copyrighted sources. When I got my new laptop, I was pee'd off by this and realized somehow SoundMAX, Intel and RIAA cooperated by maliciously removing the stereo mix feature.

For now, the only workaround I see is the VAC, which in my opinion works far better than the stereo mix feature, but requires a bit of a learning curve and a $30 per license fee.

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