who has LINUX or OS/2 loaded on their T42..?

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#1 Post by **BillMorrow** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 2:10 pm

I would like to know who has successfully loaded linux or OS/2 on their T42..
what i want is to offer a preloaded T42 with linux or OS/2..

lfeagan · #2 Post by **lfeagan** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:03 pm

Running Suse 9.1 on my Thinkpad. Only took me about an hour after install to get all the things I cared about working on it. I have been on *nix systems for about 10 years now and wouldn't ever want to be without Linux or Solaris

p0ser · #3 Post by **p0ser** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:18 pm

Are you able to control power management for the t42 in Linux? I think that is the single major obstacle for me - getting suspend to work properly, cpu throttling, etc.. If you've been able to get even a modest amount of that functionality working, I would be very interested to hear about it!

darkhelmet03 · #4 Post by **darkhelmet03** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:32 pm

I am running Linux on my T41, and it works very well.

CPU throttling works nicely with CPUFREQD. It stays at 600MHz and goes up to full speed only when running something heavy (compiling, etc.)

webnexus · #5 Post by **webnexus** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:37 pm

I tried the new Ubuntu Linux on my T41p. Even wireless worked out of the box, no problems so far for me. http://www.ubuntulinux.org/

For other distributions have a look at:
http://tuxmobil.org/ibm.html
http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/ibm.html

lvlolvlo · #6 Post by **lvlolvlo** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:41 pm

Don't have a T42 but Do have a T40 with FC and Suse running a.ok

darkhelmet03 · #7 Post by **darkhelmet03** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:54 pm

For intel pro wireless drivers look at:

http://ipw2100.sf.net (802.11b)
http://ipw2200.sf.net (802.11b/g)

Both work fine.

and also check out the laptop mode for 2.6.6+ kernels (ggogle it ...don't remember the URL). works fine as well.

lvlolvlo · #8 Post by **lvlolvlo** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 6:03 pm

darkhelmet03 wrote:For intel pro wireless drivers look at:

http://ipw2100.sf.net (802.11b)
http://ipw2200.sf.net (802.11b/g)

Both work fine.

and also check out the laptop mode for 2.6.6+ kernels (ggogle it ...don't remember the URL). works fine as well.

Well I guess I can stop using ndiswrapper

#9 Post by **BillMorrow** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 7:48 pm

reason i ask is i want someone who can create a preload for thinkpads..
a preload for those who want to escape windows yet do not have the time to do it from scratch..

it would need to replicate the windows preload with the same utilities..

it would need to have an office suite with the usual applications..

any takers..??

#10 Post by **carbon_unit** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 10:27 pm

Send me a T42 and I'll work on it.

......Well it can't hurt to ask.

#11 Post by **BillMorrow** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:01 am

carbon_unit wrote:Send me a T42 and I'll work on it. ......Well it can't hurt to ask.

good try carbon..

before i say NO!, what are your skills..?
it is an old saying that a programmer can always get free hardware if they are good..

brewt · #12 Post by **brewt** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 2:29 am

I'm going to be installing Gentoo on my 2378FVU and from the information gathered, everything should be pretty well supported.

The problems I see with doing a preload is that everyone has their own preference for the Linux distribution. I guess the type of person who wants Linux preloaded, would be a new Linux user, so you'd use a user friendly distribution - as opposed to a distribution like Gentoo or Slackware. I guess you'd use something like Fedora Core or Debian.

Software wise, there are plenty of equivalent applications - Open Office, Mozilla Firefox (web browser), Mozilla Thunderbird (mail), mplayer (media player), xmms (winamp), etc.

One nice thing about a Linux preload, would be that you could probably make a single image work with all IBM ThinkPads.

graziano · #13 Post by **graziano** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:01 am

I have a T41 with Debian sarge in it, and overall it runs pretty well. What I think is the main trick is the kernel (to have all the devices taken care of).

In the case of debian, you can create Debian CDs with your own pacakges (ie substituting the kernel). After that, providing the ISO or dd'ing the disk should be trivial.

And I'm a pretty good programmer

#14 Post by **BillMorrow** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:19 am

brewt wrote:....
One nice thing about a Linux preload, would be that you could probably make a single image work with all IBM ThinkPads.

REALLY..?!

ya think..?
a preload created for a 2378FVU would work on a 2373Q1U..?
with some small modifications..?

if so i would like to see it..

i can see i have been too [censored] busy selling these things and not enough time exploring linux..

brewt · #15 Post by **brewt** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:11 am

morrow wrote:a preload created for a 2378FVU would work on a 2373Q1U..?
with some small modifications..?

Well I meant ALL ThinkPads, not just the T series, but sure. With the T40 series, the only parts which are different enough that would need customization would be the LCD (setting the correct resolution) and wireless (IBM vs Intel, but both drivers can be preloaded). Other components like graphics, sound, ethernet, bluetooth, etc can use the same drivers, regardless of the model.

#16 Post by **carbon_unit** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 8:34 am

brewt wrote:
morrow wrote:a preload created for a 2378FVU would work on a 2373Q1U..?
with some small modifications..?
Well I meant ALL ThinkPads, not just the T series, but sure. With the T40 series, the only parts which are different enough that would need customization would be the LCD (setting the correct resolution) and wireless (IBM vs Intel, but both drivers can be preloaded). Other components like graphics, sound, ethernet, bluetooth, etc can use the same drivers, regardless of the model.

I agree that Linux is pretty flexible and the hardware detection is pretty good these days but I don't think one image will work on ALL thinkpads. I had a 600 that was almost impossible to get the sound to work in some distro's while the 570 worked with almost any distro. The T2x series seems to be better though. So far they have worked well with anything I have thrown at them.

#17 Post by **carbon_unit** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 8:50 am

morrow wrote:
carbon_unit wrote:Send me a T42 and I'll work on it. ......Well it can't hurt to ask.
good try carbon..

before i say NO!, what are your skills..?
it is an old saying that a programmer can always get free hardware if they are good..

I've been using Linux since 1999.
I have installed various distro's on a TP 570, 600, T21 and a T23.
I seem to gravitate towards the "easy to use" distro's because I think they are most windows converts are most likely to use, so that is where my support efforts will be the most marketable. While gentoo, slackware and such are good distro's, I doubt if anyone willing to pay for help is going to be using them.

I'm not really a programmer, just a linux geek with experience on older thinkpads and an eye towards the future.

You can tell me NO! now.

#18 Post by **BillMorrow** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:30 pm

brewt wrote:
morrow wrote:a preload created for a 2378FVU would work on a 2373Q1U..?
with some small modifications..?
Well I meant ALL ThinkPads, not just the T series, but sure. With the T40 series, the only parts which are different enough that would need customization would be the LCD (setting the correct resolution) and wireless (IBM vs Intel, but both drivers can be preloaded). Other components like graphics, sound, ethernet, bluetooth, etc can use the same drivers, regardless of the model.

ok, now on to which linux preload would be best for thinkpad users..
some of which, like me, are way down on the learning curve but DO have some previous unix experience..
and SOME who have NO experience changing more than a memory part..
and SOME who could do it all but don't want to take the time..

i would like to ask those who have linux set up to put a load on a HDD i would send to them/her/him.. and send it back to me so i can evaluate it..
this is sort of a contest with the winner getting some cash or hardware or both..

CONSIDERATIONS:
the resultant OS MUST be "cloneable" on new HDD's.. AND be able to be added to a standard IBM thinkpad HDD with standard preload..
the resultant OS SHOULD be able to be applied to a windows preload for a dual boot situation..
the resultant OS COULD have a windows XP emulator, if such is available..

there will be more but this is all i can think of at the moment..

with some further suggestions as to which linux package might be best, i'll add a survey to this thread..

Carbon...
this is NOT a NO..

this is a call for more info..
and if i were to send you a new thinkpad T42 to use would i ever be able to pry it from your grasp..

to be very clear here, this is a call for a preload for new thinkpads..
i would sell it along with a new thinkpad, installed ON that thinkpad with support.. each such sale would result in a commission paid to that person who would support it, who did the work making it fit and who would redo it for each succeeding model of new thinkpad..

(not to mention whatever licensing fees or distro costs would be needed to be paid to others)

#19 Post by **carbon_unit** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 1:12 pm

morrow wrote: ok, now on to which linux preload would be best for thinkpad users..
some of which, like me, are way down on the learning curve but DO have some previous unix experience..
and SOME who have NO experience changing more than a memory part..
and SOME who could do it all but don't want to take the time..

i would like to ask those who have linux set up to put a load on a HDD i would send to them/her/him.. and send it back to me so i can evaluate it..
this is sort of a contest with the winner getting some cash or hardware or both..

CONSIDERATIONS:
the resultant OS MUST be "cloneable" on new HDD's.. AND be able to be added to a standard IBM thinkpad HDD with standard preload..
the resultant OS SHOULD be able to be applied to a windows preload for a dual boot situation..
the resultant OS COULD have a windows XP emulator, if such is available..

there will be more but this is all i can think of at the moment..

with some further suggestions as to which linux package might be best, i'll add a survey to this thread..

Carbon...
this is NOT a NO..
this is a call for more info..
and if i were to send you a new thinkpad T42 to use would i ever be able to pry it from your grasp..

to be very clear here, this is a call for a preload for new thinkpads..
i would sell it along with a new thinkpad, installed ON that thinkpad with support.. each such sale would result in a commission paid to that person who would support it, who did the work making it fit and who would redo it for each succeeding model of new thinkpad..
(not to mention whatever licensing fees or distro costs would be needed to be paid to others)

I you want this only for new Thinkpads, that makes it easier.
Cloneable is not a problem.
Dual Boot is not a problem.
If you want something easy and familiar for the new windows converts (no command line, compiling, etc) that knocks some of the leading edge stuff out too.
What applications are needed?
Windows emulators do not emulate XP yet, mostly only 95/98/me.
How about a commercial distro with company support and the ability to run SOME windows software? This would incur licensing fees.

As far as getting a T42 back.......................NO!.............Well, yes, I suppose after I am DEAD!!

Seriously, probably.

brewt · #20 Post by **brewt** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 2:52 pm

morrow wrote:ok, now on to which linux preload would be best for thinkpad users..

The most user friendly newbie Linux distribution would probably be Mandrake with other choices being Fedora Core and possibly Debian (Of course I prefer to use Slackware or Gentoo, but those aren't too appropriate for this situation).

the resultant OS MUST be "cloneable" on new HDD's.. AND be able to be added to a standard IBM thinkpad HDD with standard preload..

I've done something similar with our servers at work. We have a mirror system which we boot up, run a script that allows us to do per server configuration (eg. server name, ip, partitioning, etc), and then it partitions, and copies. This is where you would be doing things like setting the LCD resolution, etc (machine specific configuration and of course the script would do this for you). You could probably even read the model number from the BIOS through DMI and auto configure it

the resultant OS SHOULD be able to be applied to a windows preload for a dual boot situation..

This could hopefully done as part of the cloning process. I'm not sure what the state of resizing FAT/NTFS is in Linux, so I can't really comment on this.

the resultant OS COULD have a windows XP emulator, if such is available..

WINE is a free one that can run individual apps (not perfect). Another option would be VMware (but costs money), which would do full OS emulation.

with some further suggestions as to which linux package might be best, i'll add a survey to this thread..

You'd get a huge list here

This whole thing would be actually quite a lot of work, but I think it's a really good idea of having a Linux installation built for T40 series ThinkPads.

kristian · #21 Post by **kristian** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:37 pm

When I actually *get* my T42p, I intend to load it with Debian unstable, then run a windows 2000 installation inside the QEMU CPU emulator, which is a free replacement for vmware.

Such a setup enables you to run virtually all windows applications, since it is a cpu emulation and not just an API implementation (like Wine), albeit a lot slower.
But testing the setup on a fairly new laptop (1.8Ghz P-M) reveals that it runs about the same pace as a native P-III 600Mhz, which is more than sufficient for my purposes; Intranet applications requiring Internet Explorer, and compiling win32 applications on Visual Studio. (qemu also runs in a "fast" mode that promises to be much faster, but that requires a kernel patch so I haven't tried it yet)
For the 99% linux convert, that just needs one or two proprietary applications either because of old habits or corporate requirements, I think it is just perfect.

From what I've heard, QEMU also runs OS/2 Warp 4, so you could theoretically offer that as an option as well instead of the native OS/2. Since QEMU (or VMWARE) emulates a standard set of [moderate] hardware, I guess it would actually be easier to get it to work inside the emulation than to get native OS/2 support for all the fancy features of a modern laptop.

As for which, I'd go for debian based; Ubuntu would probably be a fine choice, as well as sounding a little more customer friendly than the word "unstable"

...

EDIT:
As for the amount of work required, I'm not so sure that it would be so difficult...
Once you have a working installation with the proper drivers, all you need is to clone it and add a little script that runs on startup to configure the system.
That would pretty much amount to:
1)detecting which thinkpad model it is and setting the correct panel resolution in XF86Config as well adding model-specific drivers [if any], and
2) "personalize" the setup with the correct locale, timezone & network setting as well as creating a non-root user. On debian, that is as easy as calling dpkg-reconfigure for the correct base packages, and let debconf do the work for you...

v_parthi · #22 Post by **v_parthi** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:50 pm

Install SuSE 9.2 without any doubt. SuSE Personal must be free from their site.

I am a fedora/redhat user for quite a long time. But I have SuSE 9.1 in my laptop. SuSE 9.2 has all the new stuff+ full support for most of the WiFi cards using ndiswrapper methods.

A lots of brand new versions of all softwares. Improved 2.6.8 kernel and more

Refer suse.com

regards
Parthiban.

Note:
For an enterprise level, rock stable fool proof linux, you can install Centos which is based on redhat enterprise. Quite a nice stuff too.

quarx · #23 Post by **quarx** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:20 pm

has anyone experiences with gentoo on a T42? any info would be great ...

webnexus · #24 Post by **webnexus** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 5:39 pm

This list might be of interest:
http://www.suse.com/us/business/certifi ... index.html

Selected models are sold together with Suse and a special installation-CD taking care of the Thinkpads needs (drivers and tools) in germany.

#25 Post by **carbon_unit** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 5:57 pm

Ntfs resizing does work in linux but it seems to work better in the distro's you pay for.
Wine is OK but it is not developed as fast as the pay version of Crossover Office. It lets you run some windows apps "under" linux but only a limited field of apps.
I am not familiar with QEMU yet but I have used Win4Lin which lets you install win95,98,me in Linux. Windows runs like an application and then you run the windows apps in windows. It is very fast and has good application support but it does not do everything.

I like Ubuntu and have it installed on a machine here and it is fast andstable but it is pretty "un-windows" in the User interface.
SuSE is nice but the YAST stuff is kind of confusing at first.

As far as the windows like distro's go Lycoris would not be bad except they were way behind in the kernel and KDE areas the last time I looked.
Xandros is getting ready to release a new version next month or so. The current one is OK but it needs better hardware support and more speed, the newer kernel should help both. They have lots of apps available and they are easy to install.
Linspire has a laptop edition I would like to try and has lots of apps that are easy to install but they are getting stale, they should be releasing a new version soon too.

#26 Post by **BillMorrow** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 11:38 pm

webnexus wrote:This list might be of interest:
http://www.suse.com/us/business/certifi ... index.html

Selected models are sold together with Suse and a special installation-CD taking care of the Thinkpads needs (drivers and tools) in germany.

does this mean that they sell thinkpads with linux installed already..?

this is my intention..

brewt · #27 Post by **brewt** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:23 am

morrow wrote:does this mean that they sell thinkpads with linux installed already..?\

That just means they've tested it with that hardware. What I think you'd want would be some distribution with the installation customized to work with IBM T40 series notebooks. In particular, all the features like the volume buttons, wireless on/off, lcd blanking, power management, etc would be setup properly.

edcard · #28 Post by **edcard** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:31 am

EmperorLinux sells just that: Thinkpads and other laptops with Linux pre-installed. At a premium, of course.

You can also send them a laptop and they'll Linux for about $400, including some support.

brewt · #29 Post by **brewt** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:59 am

edcard wrote:EmperorLinux sells just that: Thinkpads and other laptops with Linux pre-installed. At a premium, of course.

Ooph, yeah at $400 for an install, but then I guess it comes with a manual and a year's worth of support.

#30 Post by **BillMorrow** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:55 am

what i need is to sell new thinkpads with linux as the preload..

so it boots, first time, to linux..

while retaining the ibm predesktop/recovery area..

so the customer has all options open to him..

i suppose a manual can be created..
in HTML on the HDD..

who has LINUX or OS/2 loaded on their T42..?

who has LINUX or OS/2 loaded on their T42..?

SuSE

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