Certified Used T42p - Very disappointed

[mikek5117]

Today I took possession of my T42p UXGA that I ordered from the Lenovo website. I have been a long-time proponent of buying refurbed equipment and I had understood that the Lenovo site shipped basically remanufactured units, same as (for instance) the Apple store where I have purchased numerous items.

As you may have guessed, my "new" T42p is less than satisfactory. The top and bottom covers have numerous wear marks, scratches, almost worn through the finish along the front edge. The keyboard has worn and shiney keys and the UXGA panel (main reason for purchase) has marks and scratches that won't come clean.

This is my first purchase from the Lenovo Certified Used store. Is this normal?? The unit was nor marked "slightly imperfect" or blemished, it was represented as being as good as comes from the store. My question, is what I got typical. I've seen previous posts suggesting what I have is normal, and more posts very emphatically stating stuff from the Certified Used is completely remanufactured and appears like new.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Johan]

Thanks a lot for sharing this information, mikek - much appreciated although from your perspective obviously ”bad news".

A couple of comments: First, you state that you bought your T42p from "the Lenovo website", but is this actually true? Didn't you refer to the IBM Certified Used PCs, Notebooks, Laptops, PCs website? Please clarify!

Next, am I correct in that the T42p you choose was a 2373-C96? (- the reason for asking is that I have seen these offered a while ago for $849 and even with an additional 10 % rebate most recently).

Third, have a look in the thread IBM Factory Refurbished Units - Safe to buy?. If you look at the post of Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:59 pm and following the link Satisfaction Guaranteed this is what I would consider in your situation - making use of the 7 day money back guarantee (provided that period has not already expired). If the 7-days period has perhaps already been slightly expired, I'd call anyway, saying that this cannot be true - receiving an item in that condition, and that you suggest they take it back (with no expense for you), so that you can help them maintain their reputation as a trustworthy seller.

I am very sorry to hear this story, as I have in fact myself recently been considering exactly a 2373-C96 from the above-mentioned site, as a backup to my present 2373-Q1U.

Keep us posted about this issue (please!), and also consider asking other users for advice in the thread IBM Factory Refurbished Units - Safe to buy? - more users may perhaps see it there.

I really wish you best of luck.

Kind regards,

Johan

[Harryc]

I agree with Johan. If you're not satisifed with the product send it back. On the first page of the refurb site it states -

"Our vast inventory of fully-refurbished, tested and guaranteed IBM Certified Used notebooks includes some systems that have minor cosmetic flaws including minor nicks, cracks and scratches on the exterior and a few faded keys on the keyboard."

Did you read that? It sounds exactly like your description of the product you received. I tried to sell a T42P here with UXGA and 2 years warranty for a bit more than you paid and it drew zero interest. The machine looked and functioned like brand new. Go figure. What does the refurb site offer, 6 months? I think the refurb site can be a decent choice given the deal offered, but not always.

[losmeme]

I ordered one of those T42ps as well. Every other machine I have purchased from the IBM site has been shipped from Morrisville, NC. This one was shipped from Sunnyvale, CA. The box arrived damaged. (Thanks YET AGAIN UPS!) One end was crushed and half the security seal was missing. Didn't even sign for it.

Called 1-800-334-9693 to exercise my 7 day refund, but the menu directs you to an answering machine. In two and a half weeks they did not return two messages left at that number.

I finally called the main BUY IBM number and was told to call the 9693 number again and select option 1 (english) and then option two (Technical support) to reach a human that could take care of the refund. Sure enough, the guy started all the paperwork for a refund, but it might take up to three weeks to get the money back.

Very dissapointing experience. I brought it for the screen as well.

[ajkula66]

And this is exactly why I get upset when people stay unresponsive to great machines under warranty offered from trustworthy sellers like Harryc or Syedj, at competitive prices...

For anyone who hasn't figured this out by now, nowadays you have to stay small to be trustworthy...compared to corporations, that is...

[mikek5117]

Thanks for all the advice, I'll try and answer all the questions.

1. Johan, yes my unit is the 2373-C96 - the additiona 10% caused me to finally decide to buy, I had been fence-sitting for a number of days. And Yes, it was purchased from the IBM Certified Used website. I had read the "Saft to buy" thread along with all the other threads I could find. A lot of them seem to deal with 3rd party resellers, Ebay, etc. It was in fact comments in that thread referring to new parts, professionally rebuilt, etc that gave me the confidence to buy the refurb as it sounded like the same process Apple uses and I have always been 110% satisfied with their refurbs.

2. HarryC, I have read the notice you quoted, however if you look closely it refers to the "Slightly Imperfect" items which are clearly identified as such as part of the item listing, for instance this morning the first item listed, a T30, is listed as such. The T42p I ordered was not shown as slightly imperfect so I didn't expect to receive one with these types of defects.

3. Losmeme, sorry to hear your story, sounds like you did the right thing in refusing to accept the package. Mine arrived fine in that respect.

4. Harryc and ajkula66, I agree that buying from forum members is a good rule to follow. However, I am not a "regular" here at the Thinkpad forums, in fact I have just recently returned after using Mac's exclusively for about 3 years. I don't have the history with the sellers to comfortably make a purchase like someone who has been following the day-to-day activity and knows the sellers better. Hopefully if I do get back into Thinkpads (this T42p was supposed to be my personal "fun" machine vs the T60p I have through work) then I will be more of a regular here.

Thanks for the good advice. I will have to decide about exercising the 7-day return or trying to fix this through warranty. The screen also has a very bad yellow cast and won't color match even close, so that may give me an avenue to get it repaired under warranty.

Will keep you posted.

[Troels]

What is the date of manufacture on the T42p you recieved?
The yellow cast is most likely the CCFL on it's last "legs", which is definitely not acceptable considering the warranty on the certified machines.
You should not try to fix it through warranty since most screen problems aren't covered. Even if they accepted to replace the screen they may have problems sourcing a new IPS panel for you too.
Pretty disappointing that they would sell anything in that condition, even with the case condition you describe - considering how little it costs for them to replace the covers.
When reselling a computer, one of the most degrading factors are problems with the LCD, so in my opinion you definitely should not let them get away with keeping what you bought.

[mikek5117]

I got through to a person at IBM Cert Used warranty service. They are sending me the return labels, and are trying to locate a suitable replacement for this machine. I told them I don't want to just return it as I need the computer, if they can't locate a replacement then I would prefer they ship me the parts and I will do the repairs. Reluctant to do this with the screen, rest of the parts are OK with them if it comes to this I may try to insist on the screen as well and see what happens.

Should hear something by Friday or Monday at latest.

PS DOM on this machine is Feb 2005.

[davidspalding]

I ordered one of those T42ps as well. Every other machine I have purchased from the IBM site has been shipped from Morrisville, NC. This one was shipped from Sunnyvale, CA. The box arrived damaged. (Thanks YET AGAIN UPS!) One end was crushed and half the security seal was missing. Didn't even sign for it.

Called 1-800-334-9693 to exercise my 7 day refund, but the menu directs you to an answering machine. In two and a half weeks they did not return two messages left at that number.

I finally called the main BUY IBM number and was told to call the 9693 number again and select option 1 (english) and then option two (Technical support) to reach a human that could take care of the refund. Sure enough, the guy started all the paperwork for a refund, but it might take up to three weeks to get the money back.

Very dissapointing experience. I brought it for the screen as well.

VERY disturbing tale. That you exercised your privilege and reasonable response in refusing to accept a clearly damaged shipment is perfectly responsible IMHO. That it took so long for you to get a hold of someone to complete (no, not initiate, but complete) a refund on a transaction that you refused to accept ... troubling.

I believe the new Lenovo digs that former-IBM offices moved to is in Morrisville ... no, make that "I'm sure." I visited there for a job interview earlier this year.

[mikek5117]

Well, the T42p was delivered to DHL yesterday for return to IBM. No word so far from their customer service regarding a replacement. I sure hope I don't have any hassles getting the refund to my credit card, thankfully I used AMEX who will do my refund and stand up for me if necessary. Sad story, I really was looking forward to another T42, especially the "p" model with the IPS screen.

[Johan]

<snip>

Sad story, I really was looking forward to another T42, especially the "p" model with the IPS screen.

Sad story, I absolutely agree, but yet I think you made the correct choice here - and there are going to be other/better T42p FlexView's around - take e.g. a look at today's huge sale in the thread FS Flexview heaven T60P and T42P's.

Best regards,

Johan

[Growly]

Hi everyone,

I've heard mixed things about these IBM refurbished models now. A lot of people have had excellent experiences, while some have had even worse than I have - and mine just turned sour.

An eBay auction lured a friend of mine and I to purchase T43ps from the U.S. (We're in New Zealand, so it's quite the import crusade). We found an eBay store selling these factory refurbished items (straight from the factory in IBM sealed boxes), and lured by promises of "near new" and "excellent" condition, thought we would buy.

They arrived today, and while my friend's machine is actually very good condition, mine is - relatively speaking - sub par. Horrible, even.

I feel gutted - I just wanted a shiny T43p. I have a T43 manufactured just last year (which I bought second hand), and it's in much better condition than both of these machines. That's understandable, but it makes the deal so much more sour. Arggghhhh, there are scratches and nicks everywhere! It's disgusting!

Brief rundown:
- The edges of the lid (corners) are worn down past the outer layer to
the hard plastic (and are shiny).
- Along the outer edges of the lid again there are lines of similar abrasion.
- On top of the lid there is a 1-1.5cm^2 patch of hard wear.
- Similarly, the font of the unit has a similarly large patch of worn plastic. The outer coating has been removed completely in these (given they are small).
- The CDRW drive has orange substance strewn across some parts, and is very worn.
- There is a stuck pixel on the LCD
- Underneath, various stickers are peeling off - some completely worn off - and the main label has formed bubbles!
- Various scratches and nicks all over the unit, as well as significant wear on the keyboard.


I genuinely am very dissatisfied. My only concern now is that because I bought from overseas, getting the unit replaced / sending it back will be a complete pain.

I am waiting for the eBay store to reply with what they can do for me. I have no reason to doubt their service - the one thing stopping me from crying right now...

[RonS]

IBM Refurb is totally luck-of-the-draw. I ordered two machines in one day: a T40p and a T42. The t40p was brand new, never used. The T42 was a franken-system, that has obviously been taken apart and re-assembled from spare parts.

[mattbiernat]

you can always return it...

[Growly]

The luck-of-the-draw thing is really quite upsetting (I hate life. waaa. waaa. waaaa. It's not fair, waaa. etc). We actually ordered two machines, the other one was quite alright (both had shocking keyboards, but those are replaceable).

I intend to return it and try for another one (somehow, someway, I will get my T43p). The only problem is return shipping, Christmas season, cost, and that I have organise everything at ridiculous hours of the morning NZ time to get anything done. Oh, and all those [censored] toll calls...

GarrrrrRRRRRR!!!!!! Merry Christmas.

[underclocker]

The real problem is that these are not refurbished at all! They are just used machines that still work with reformatted hard drives.

That is why they are luck of the draw.

It's kind of pathetic, replacing the LCD cover, bezels and keyboards is simply cosmetic and relatively inexpensive but makes a huge difference to the new buyer.

Like "orgainic" there's no regulation for using the word "refurbished"! There should be!

Sorry to hear about the problems, maybe you can press for the parts to be shipped to you versus returning the unit?

[ajkula66]

If you've paid by credit card you should've been filing for chargeback yesterday, send the darn thing back and buy a decent-not to mention definitely cheaper-ThinkPad here on the forum....just my $0.02

And before cynics jump in: no, I don't have a T43p for sale.

[Mobil1]

I ordered my certified used T42p directly from IBM and it came with a brand new 9 cell battery which was manufactured 6/07 so it seems they replace parts as needed. There were also some faint, minor scratches on the lid and a few keys on the keyboard had some shiny wear to them but overall the notebook was in excellent condition so I agree with the luck of the draw sentiment.

[mikek5117]

Somehow my request to return for refund got interpreted by IBM as return and exchange so much to my surprise another T42p showed up at my door while I was out of town last week. Checked it out over the weekend.

Admittedly in much better condition than the first. Exterior case still used but it cleaned up to look much closer to new - no major scratches or wear marks. Inside similar, keyboard and palm-rest very shiny. Keyboard had 2 inoperable keys. Screen was much better than the first, bright, mostly white with yellow along the right edge.

Anyway, called IBM to return this one finally for refund - I hope. If it had arrived the first time I might have kept it especially if they would have sent a replacement keyboard for the stuck keys.

[Growly]

The real problem is that these are not refurbished at all! They are just used machines that still work with reformatted hard drives.

Dammit, I knew that was the case. They say themselves that the units are cleaned "inside and out", and that they are near new - I had such high [censored] hopes! My CDRW drive has crud over a small portion. A small cloth, some isopropyl alcohol, a miniscule amount of effort, and it would be completely gone. The panel with the power and volume buttoms was covered in what looked like dried water spots - i could wipe it off with my finger.

From the looks of it they didn't even open the unit after receiving it from whichever [censored] company leased it out. Argh.

Sorry to hear about the problems, maybe you can press for the parts to be shipped to you versus returning the unit?

I hope this is possible. The problem is that, in all fairness, the machine operates perfectly. But I bought because I thought it was "near new", "excellent condition", i.e. so that I could frame and marvel at its beauty. Now I'm USD$1.4k out for negative joy...

Thanks though guys, good to see some sense left around!

If you've paid by credit card you should've been filing for chargeback yesterday,[ send the darn thing back and buy a decent-not to mention definitely cheaper-ThinkPad here on the forum....just my $0.02

Hmm, a friend and I bought them together. He paid for the whole thing with his credit card, so I'm not sure how that'd work.

Incidentally I was about to buy one of the T43ps from the forum - even had a few of you guys PM'd and waiting. The promise of 3 year warranty + factory sealed + IBM guaranteed refurbished just sounded too tempting! Evidently also too good to be true.

[Johan]

@ Growly & friend:

I am so sad to read about all your troubles and the overall extremely bad experience with buying a "refurbished" (and perhaps even designated "near new condition"!) T43p and having it shipped across half of the world, then just to discover what you did - what a horror story...

And then... I really wish I had some good news to share, but I am afraid that I don't... so unless prepared for more mental troubles, don't read on. If, on the other hand, it almost cannot become worse, then I would like to point your attention to the issue of warranty coverage on used/refurbished laptops, bought in the USA and shipped abroad. I used to believe that IBM was totally trustworthy when it comes to the International Warranty Service (IWS) coverage, and that if the particular ThinkPad model was covered by IWS, then the buyer was eligible for a warranty-repair in the countries listed under the IWS coverage. But, this I should like to add is absolutely NOT the case (!), totally regardless of what the official IBM warranty statements says. If e.g. buying a ThinkPad in the USA, having it shipped to Denmark, then... too bad, the IWS will NOT cover a warranty repair in Denmark. If broken, the ThinkPad needs to be shipped back to the USA for a warranty-repair taking place there (and, yes, shipped at the owner’s expense and trouble). I have come to realize this very recently, to my deep regret - as discussed in the thread IBM/Denmark deny to honor warranty confirmed by IBM-Support.

Now, if this was not enough, a refurbished ThinkPad is NOT eligible for IWS and may also NOT be able to have the very short (only 3 months!?!) warranty extended any further, as discussed in the thread IBM Certified used notebook questions (see the post of Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:21 pm and IN PARTICULAR the post of Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:54 pm!). And, hey, did the seller perhaps inform of this? I guess not... correct?

The above might be worth to consider if you need to decide if you really want another "refurbished" T43p from the USA. Bad news, all this, maybe, yes - but I absolutely assure you that owing to the above, I am probably equally sad as you are.

In any case, I wish you a Merry Christmas "down under", when we get to it.

Best regards,

Johan

[Growly]

I'm so sorry to hear that Johan - atleast I can honestly say I know how you feel

I've had similar problems with Lenovo Australia - they enjoy pretending Lenovo divisions from other parts of the world don't exist., at all.

The reseller I purchased the unit from (and it's becoming more and more apparent that they weren't even official resellers - they bought the machine from someone else entirely, but kept them sealed) has sold it with a 3 year international "mack" warranty, which they are yet to register. I sincerely hope this will be redeemable down here.

Dammit, the dream just isn't allowed to live.

[Thinkpaddict]

I am very sorry to hear about your troubles. I personally had to deal with a misrepresented T23 a few years back (but that was another story, since it wasn't a refurbished unit sold by IBM), and I know how sour and stressful the whole experience can be.

I have bought a number of IBM refurbished Thinkpads in the past, and the experience was quite good. I don't know if this service has deteriorated since IBM sold the PC division to Lenovo, but if your experience is at all common, then I would say it has.

In my opinion, buying IBM certified equipment did a lot of sense 3 years ago, when the average new T-series computer ran over $2,000. Things have changed since then, and you can now get X-series machines (more expensive than the T's) new for less than $1000. My point is that the price differential between a new and a refurbished Thinkpad to me isn't enough anymore to consider the second option something worth doing.

I also honestly believe that unless you need to run 3D apps or games, you would be well served by buying a well taken care for, 2nd hand older generation Thinkpad from a reputable and honest seller either locally (so that you have the chance to take a look at the machine before shelling out the cash) or through eBay for a couple hundred dollars.

But above all, your experiences with refurbished IBM Thinkpads are unfair and totally unjustified. I'm sure everyone in the forum agrees with this and hopes things get resolved for you guys in your best advantage.

[z2000]

I'm sorry to hear Johan's story.
I agree with thinkpaddict - I have good experience in the past. I was ordered refurbished T40 on 2003/2004. But I don't know now - its seem totally changed.

IWS - I have confused with Johan's case. our company ordered T4 from HongKong and received good service in Netherlands. - But it only consider is the machine model have to match IWS. Otherwise, as Johan's words - ship back where you bought to repair. ( I did it with my old Gateway 2550LS, BTW)

Refurbished manchine normally don't match IWS and only have 90 days warranty. some refurbished thinkpad have " 3 year international warranty" on Ebay - Its not offered from IBM/Lenovo directly...

Good luck.

[Truthfinder]

Are they not making enough money, having to sell USED junk to the public !
Why in the world are they selling garbage, and moreover, why in the world are people buying this junk.

I personaly feel that if one can not afford to purchase a new ThinkPad, or a used ThinkPad from someone on this group, then wait until you can afford a new unit or live without a ThinkPad.
What is the sense in spending good money after bad, replacing 1/2 the machine, when for a few bucks more you could have bought a new unit from jump street. Besides, the prices have come down so much over the last several months, it just pays to go with NEW and a Warn.

The old saying is that if you want to drive a caddy, you have to pay for the gas.......... Same holds true for a quality ThinkPad. Buy new or used from a buyer you know...........

Don't give Lenovo the opportunity to sell JUNK to you. They should trash their junk, not sell it to YOU.......... Be an educated consumer.

Much,if not all the used stuff that Lenovo sells is stuff that has come back from lease..... They have already made their $$ from the lease of these units, yet are trying to bleed every last dime out of them, thus selling the goods to us, the consumer. We should not pay for this used and in most cases, beat up junk, no matter what the company says about the condiiton. They are using simple marketing, taking advantage of the public.

On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with a Refurb, or whatever they wish to call it. These are units that were sold, shipped and in some cases the box opened by the consumer, which is why they are Refubs. They may have never been turned on..... This is not the same as buying a 3 or four year old out-dated unit that has been under lease and most likely tossed all over the place and basically used & abused.

My 2 cents...............

[KristianJ]

The reseller I purchased the unit from (and it's becoming more and more apparent that they weren't even official resellers - they bought the machine from someone else entirely, but kept them sealed) has sold it with a 3 year international "mack" warranty, which they are yet to register. I sincerely hope this will be redeemable down here.
.

Mack is a bad word in these parts...who was the reseller?

There's been a few mentions about a seller located on the east coast of the US called ThinkPadWorld who offers a "mack" warranty and a few members here haven't had pleasant experiences with them. The following thread is quite interesting and I suggest that if it is ThinkPadWorld you were dealing with, you try and make as direct contact as possible with Maurice and use this thread to help you come to a satisfactory resolution.

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=46171

Otherwise, I can't envy the anoyance you and your friend would be feeling. I also am sorry to read about your troubles.

[pianowizard]

why in the world are people buying this junk.

Most of these "certified used" have been reported to be in excellent conditions, though we get unlucky sometimes.