Uncertain of usb/firewire capability of 760ED and other ?s

[Nerdette]

I recently got an old 760ED at a charity sale. It really works quite well, considering the age, but I since I don't have much knowledge of laptops I have a lot of questions. The IBM site has a lot of info, but not always what I need.

Here are the specs:
TP 760ED (9546 U3A)
48 MB memory
Windows 98

I had the idea that this model does not support USB, but some of the information I've heard is contradictory. Somebody told me it would support USB, but only ver 1.1. I'd like to find out. And what about firewire? Since firewire doesn't require any CPU resources, does that mean it can be used with any CPU?

I'm asking this because ideally, I'd like to be able to get a used digital camera and be able to download pictures to this machine.

Another possiblity to achieve my goal might be to get some sort of card reader to fit in the PCMCIA slot, that would be compatible with whatever sort of camera I eventually buy. It would be a used camera, so this might work. Are there other reasons besides just convenience and speed that would make usb preferable?

Note that I don't have a lot to spend on any of this. So, I'm hoping to figure out some sort of workaround. (Obviously, people who buy computers for $16 at charity sales are pressed for funds!)

I should also ask about the heat thing. It seems to get REALLY hot in a fairly short time. Is this normal? It doesn't appear to affect the performance.

And one last thing. I also need some sort of REALLY inexpensive source for used parts. Currently, this machine doesn't have either a floppy or a working CD, so I'm sort of working on borrowed time, as I see it. Thank you for your time. Hope I didn't bombard you all with too many questions.

[Nerdette]

for this model. I had initially assumed that meant there was no USB support, but a salesperson told me that a USB 1.1 card would work. Hence, my confusion.

[Bruce Guttman]

I think what I did to get USB functionality in my 760E was to get a dock.

But I think there are PC-Card (NOT Cardbus) cards with USB functionality. I also have an adapter that converts a serial port to USB.

IIRC, you should have a 120 or 133 MHz Pentium processor. I think the U3x was 120 MHz and the U4x was 133.

Parts for these beasts show on Ebay pretty regularly. If you have the "thin" 760E you will need some external CD-ROM. I had a thin 760E and used a Dock I with a SCSI CD-ROM in it. The ED uses a plug-in CD-ROM and can use an external floppy.

As to heat: yes, these things are "lap warmers." There used to be a metal plate with a covering sold that would conduct the heat away from you. I never used my laptop on my lap, so the heat was never a problem.

And please keep coming back to ask questions. It's nice to know that another old Thinkpad has achieved a new life.

[JHEM]

You cannot use a USB PC card, regardless of 1.1 or 2.0, without a Cardbus enabled (32BIT) card slot.

Fortunately for Nerdette, the 760ED has Cardbus enabled slots.

Regards,

James

[Nerdette]

Thanks for your reply.
It apparently accepts a 32-bit card BUT...

Here is the info for PC Cards that is found in the 760ED Users Guide, found on the IBM site:

<snip>
Two slots for 68-pin, 85.6mm x 54.0mm (credit card size) PC Cards.
PC Card Standard (1995)

Drivers:
Socket Services PC Card Standard (1995)
Card Services PC Card Standard (1995)
PC Card Director and common enablers

The PC card slots operate at 5V or 3.3V and support the following:
Type I, Type II and Type III Cards
16-bit PC Card (PCMCIA 2.0/2.1/JEIDA 4.1,4.2)
32-bit PC Card (CardBus PC Card) (for DOS and Windows 3.1)
Multiple function PC Card (for DOS and Windows 3.11 only)

Note that the PC Card slots do not support 8-bit or 16-bit slave DMA PC Cards. Ask IBM or an IBM authorized dealer for more information about the different types of PC Cards.
__________________

So, it can accept a 32-bit card, apparently, but it looks like it may only work in DOS or Win3.11 (not much help, as I am using Win 98). I haven't upgraded the BIOS yet, so will that make a difference? Or, is there something else going on that I just don't comprehend? Does it have to do with the voltage, somehow? WHY would a 32-bit card work only in DOS?

See why I'm confused? And why it's so hard to understand what is the best way to most efficiently ($) achieve my goal?

[Nerdette]

Thanks for your reply and the info. I have more questions though. I am unfamiliar with docks, too. Do docks allow one to use normal, desktop sorts of peripherals with the laptop? It seems the IBM site either doesn't have info or presumes more technical knowledge than I have.

What, for instance, is the difference between a docking station and a port replicator?

Would it be cheaper to try to find a docking station and then get additional CD drives, etc., or to find a PC card reader (16-bit, I think is the maximum, but I'm asking about that too) for my laptop that would accept, say, a compact flash card, and then get a camera that used one too?

And, perhaps I should also ask if there is some site, or book, that I could read in order to understand this stuff for myself. I am asking a lot of questions, I realize. Do appreciate your answers.

[Bruce Guttman]

First, about the information about Windows/DOS from the IBM Site. When the 760 series was first introduced, it was shipped with Windows 3.1. Most folks upgraded to Windows 95 or 98 at some point. Your 32-bit cardbus cards work fine in Windows 95 and 98. I think you need Windows 98 or later for USB support (maybe Windows 95 SR2)

As to docks. There were 3 different dock stations that were offered for the 760. Dock I was the smallest. Had a "slimline" SCSI bay (takes 1" high devices), speakers, and (if I remember correctly) 2 slots for standard cards. There is a SCSI connector that takes a special cable (similar to the RS-6000), 2 serial ports, keyboard, mouse, parallel port, video port.

Dock II also had a "slimline" SCSI, was a little bigger, allowed a monitor to be put on a stand above the Thinkpad. Allowed 3 cards, 2 PCI and 1 ISA. Speakers, SCSI, keyboard, mouse, parallel, video as on Dock I.

Selectadock (actually SAD I, II, and III) used an adapter that could also act as a Port Replicator and would plug into the dock. Adapters are available for the 760, 770, and 600. I never had a SAD-I, but I think it is similar in capability to the Dock I with the addition of an Ultrabay. SAD II and III had a full-height 5 1/4" SCSI bay and an Ultrabay. The SAD III came with a 770-style Ultrabay, the SAD II came with a 760-style Ultrabay. I was never able to get the 760 Ultrabay to work in my SAD III (maybe it's just me). There are 3 PCI slots in the SAD II,III and it uses a standard SCSI-II connector cable for external devices.

A Port Replicator (or the adapter for a SelectaDock) contains the external ports that are normally on your laptop with a little extra. You get separate keyboard and mouse ports (the connector on the laptop only accepts a mouse), 2 serial ports, video, external floppy, and parallel.

Hope this helps a little.

[Nerdette]

I am a little confused about the usb issue for this machine because of what the IBM site says about usb support for my particular model.

According to the following document on the IBM site, SOME 760s have usb support, while my particular model (9546 U3A), apparently, does not. Here is the link to the IBM usb document: http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MOE-3VAM8Y
(Note the asterisked item at the bottom of the table: usb support only available for the 760EL - 9547.)
So, although everyone is correct in assuming that a 760 in general supports usb, it isn't going to work for my computer. (If somebody has some other kind of workaround, so that it COULD use usb, that would be great too. Would using a dock make any difference?)

SO, that leads me back to the two other parts of my original question(s): will firewire work? I wonder if it might because it apparently works without using resources, and, would one other workaround be to use a cardreader and a Compact Flash card, or other type of digital camera memory card? Which of these two options would be cheaper? Any other ideas?

[JHEM]

Nerdette,

You're confusing yourself with facts! The link you posted is to the Thinkpad BIOS matrix, has nothing whatsoever to do with USB support and the exceptions at the bottom of the page pertain to model specific versions of the BIOS.

Just buy a USB/Firewire card and stick it in the 760ED, it will work!

Regards,

James

[Nerdette]

support page, here:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... IGR-4YQHUD
Item 2 on the usb page offers a link to the BIOS page, sorry that wasn't clear from my post. And, as I think about it, not entirely clear what it means to me either.

If you'll notice, under item 3 on that page, the 760ED is not included. So that's why I'm wondering. I'm thinking that the 760ED may have been the one that was right on the edge, manufactured right around the time usb first appeared, but this particular computer may not have included the instructions in the CPU that allowed use of usb. I do notice that there is no usb shown in the BIOS when I go there while booting, although I suppose that may be because I have no usb port at this point.

I'm sorry if I'm beating this issue to death, but if I make a mistake on this, I may have to pay restocking fees, etc. Not to mention that I will be buying the digital camera used, so who knows if it will even be returnable. And, even if it is, if I go to all the trouble of buying the adapter and camera, but only then find out that usb won't work, that will be not too cool. Not to mention that I'm on the bus so its difficult to get around anyway. I just don't want to have to go thru a big effort only to have all this not work. AND other people who I have asked in various stores have given me answers all over the place: yes, no and in between. So I ask your patience with me for all the questions. And thank you for your kindness in responding to them.

[klkoehler]

repeated by repost- How to delete duplicates?

[klkoehler]

You will have to allocate the irqs for the cardbus to work most likely. You can do this by going to C:\IBM\Utils\ dir at a dos prompt or dos window -if that's where you have the utils installed, and type the command "ps2 ? irq" To enable Cardbus you issue the commands "ps2 cbirq1 enable" and/or"ps2 cbirq2 enable". Both might not need to be allocated for 1 pcmcia card. The default IRQ assignment should be fine- if there a sharing violation you can decide what IRQs you need- Usually I don't use the Serial A -which I think is the trackpointer since I have an external mouse. Then you be required to reboot for the changes to take effect. In Thinkpad Configuration window you can check if the Cardbus has IRQ sharing enable as well as cardbus support. I have used an ATEN USB 2.0 pcmcia card in my 760XD- and I think I got it working in my 760ED. I usually use a Xircom Cardbus 10/100 & Modem which is very stable and lets me enable MWAVE sound while online. You might? need to download Microsoft USB drivers for Win98 as was the case for Win95. I know Win98SE comes with USB support plug-n-play. I use a IBM /Logitech USB scrollpoint mouse w/a ps2 serial adapter- not that it would work with any other USB devices through-except maybe a USB keyboard w/no other USB hub or support ports.

[JHEM]

If you'll notice, under item 3 on that page, the 760ED is not included.

Of course it's not listed. Your 760 doesn't HAVE a USB port!!! All the of the other machines listed came from the factory with USB ports built-in.

I'm sorry if I'm beating this issue to death, but if I make a mistake on this, I may have to pay restocking fees, etc.

But you're obsessing over something that sells for as little as $5! There are hundreds available on eBay starting at $3.

[Nerdette]

I can't know if usb really works until I buy my usb device, can I? And that IS an expensive item (for me, at least), maybe not even returnable, if I buy used.

The part you couldn't know: I already tried a wireless card which for some reason didn't work in my computer (the card was recognized in device manager, but it just wouldn't work - the utility crashed everytime I tried to start it). This may just have been that the card was bad from the start, as the pdf file that came with it was also corrupted, a sign that the company may not have been producing a quality product. So that may be part of the reason for my hesitation and all the questions. And, admittedly, my hardware understanding is far from extensive. So, I again ask for your patience. Note that I didn't mention this at the beginning, because (you aren't gonna believe this) I didn't want to bombard you with too many issues at once! Are you laughing now?

I did preface my questions with how I find the IBM site a bit confusing about some issues (wonderful in general though). I apologize if all my questions bothered you. I will try to find other sources of information as well as this site and IBM. Again, I do appreciate your being here, though.

No need for you to reply.

[JHEM]

I can't know if usb really works until I buy my usb device, can I? And that IS an expensive item (for me, at least), maybe not even returnable, if I buy used.

You can know it works because several of us have told you it does.

If $5 plus shipping is rich for your purse, send me your snail-mail address and I'll send you a USB2.0 card gratis.

I've also got 1/2 dozen "new-in-bag" CD drives for your machine and you'd be doing me a favor to let me give you one and get it out of my shop.

Regards,

James

[JaneL]

Wow, and I thought I was testy these days! <g>

[AlphaKilo470]

I can't know if usb really works until I buy my usb device, can I? And that IS an expensive item (for me, at least), maybe not even returnable, if I buy used.

You can know it works because several of us have told you it does.

If $5 plus shipping is rich for your purse, send me your snail-mail address and I'll send you a USB2.0 card gratis.

I've also got 1/2 dozen "new-in-bag" CD drives for your machine and you'd be doing me a favor to let me give you one and get it out of my shop.

Regards,

James

How fast are "new-in-bag" cd drives? I might be able to use one.

[JHEM]

How fast are "new-in-bag" cd drives? I might be able to use one.

They're 2X for the 755 and 760 series machines.

Positively ancient yet utterly reliable.

Regards,

James