Considering T61/T61p - advice please

[PatM]

Hi there... I've been a lurker for a while learning what I can on my own -- I love this board!

I'm a photographer, and often work on deadline while traveling. I need a good, fast laptop at all times. I currently have a T43p, but I'm going to need more power for bigger image files when I get a couple of new cameras next spring.

I assume the T61 or T61p will offer a significant performance boost from my T43p, which has a 7200rpm hard drive, 2 gigs of ram, and a gorgeous 14-in SXGA+ screen.

I'll be getting a 7200rpm drive for sure (probably 160gig), discreet graphics, and at least 3gigs of ram.

Some specific questions follow - I'd appreciate any advice!

I've read about poor screens on the latest models. Does this apply to the 14-inch SXGA+ screens on the T61 and T61p? I am NOT a fan of widescreen at this time, and want a 14-inch laptop for portability. But I do need a good screen, which I'll attempt to calibrate with the Eye One Display 2 device.

Since I'll primarily be using Photoshop CS3 and various raw file converters, is there a performance difference between the graphics card in the T61 versus T61p (which seems to be the only difference in the two models)? No games for me, so hopefully I won't have the problems I've read about there.

Should I stick with 3gigs of ram (from what I hear the maximum usable), or go with 4gigs just to take advantage of dual channel performance boosts?

Will the Ultrabay Slim hard drive adapter I use in my T43p fit in the T61 series? I can never have enough storage!

I don't really need this laptop until next spring. But I'd like to stick with Windows XP, so I may need to buy sooner rather than later. Also, there's a pretty good pricing deal out there now.

Thanks everyone for reading this long post!

Pat

[Brownit]

I just received a T61 that is the 14.1" 4:3 screen with SXGA (1400X1050) . In my opinion the screen quality is excellent. It's very sharp to look at and to my eye displays great color, although I've seen others comment that their screens appear somewhat blueish.

I've also got the 160GB 7200rpm drive and 3GB of memory and find it to be a very fast machine overall. I upgraded from a VAIO laptop with a Pentium M 1.5 ghz processor and a 7200 rpm Seagate drive, I'm not sure how your T43 is configured, but I imagine you will notice a significant performance difference with a T61.

[steveg47]

Will the Ultrabay Slim hard drive adapter I use in my T43p fit in the T61 series? I can never have enough storage!Pat

In a word, Yes.

[buzzlight]

PatM,

I'd look at the T61p 14" 4:3 screen. The graphics card is more advanced than the T61 (nVidia Quadro 570M vs. the 140M in the regular T61). The downside is power - the higher end card in the T61p will shorten battery life. Also, not sure if the difference between these cards is significant for photos - it may only matter for gaming.

The T61 model 8891 is just about identical to a T61p with the same model number - except for the grafix card. So if you're uncertain going for the lower-priced T61 but adding the SXGA+ screen option for a paltry $22.50 and longer batt life may be good.

I'd be careful about 4 gig of ram - I couldn't figure out if XP or a 32-bit system would support it (but I don't have a final answer). So check it out.

I recently received a T61 14" widescreen, 7200 RPM 160 GB drive, 3 GB ram and have been very happy (used to own a T42 which served me well for 3 solid years)

[PatM]

Thanks for the replies so far.

Sounds like I'd be pretty happy with either model.

As I priced it, there's only a $75 difference between the T61 and T61p. Can anyone else comment on whether the upgraded graphics card will be useful for Photoshop (or perhaps useful in the hardware screen calibration?)

I could take that money and funnel it to a faster processor.

BTW, I'm not really interested in battery life, almost always using it on power when I'm on location.

Pat

[Volker]

They work great for checking sharpness / composition, but color reproduction is at most mediocre on laptop displays. Except perhaps on the older IPS screens that aren't available on T61s. Calibration of course helps but can't change the fact that the panel can only generate so much of the color space.

[erik]

Can anyone else comment on whether the upgraded graphics card will be useful for Photoshop (or perhaps useful in the hardware screen calibration?)

more video memory can help when dragging large files around the screen in photoshop and illustrator.   the GPU itself is less important here so long as it's discreet and has enough VRAM.   however, i would take a better GPU over a faster processor since processing speed is rarely an issue when comparing the same processor within 200MHz increments.   if you decide against a T61p then put the money into memory, not a processor.

fwiw, i've been a professional graphic designer for nearly a decade and always buy 'p' model thinkpads whenever possible.   my criteria is always memory > GPU > processor.

[PatM]

I understand how video memory is important, but in this case both the T61 and T61p have 128mb of vram. So it's not the amount of vram that's a factor here, it's the quality of the card. I've read where the card in the "p" is better for 3d renderings and such, which I won't need, especially if I configure with XP. But please correct me if it will play more of a role in my use.

I already had planned for 3gigs of ram, since from posts here it seems that any more isn't recognized with 32-bit XP. But if a 4gig setup would give me a performance boost with dual channel capability, that would be different. Can anyone comment further on that?

And I realize that laptop screens are never perfect for accurate photo work, but I can't exactly take my desktop computer with me on location , where I have to process a lot of my work on deadline. I just need a good screen in a reliable laptop that I'm comfortable with. My T43p has been great for that purpose, and my T30 before that. And I'm VERY grateful that the price point of the T61/61p is a LOT lower than what it was for the T43p and T30!

Thanks again for helping me decide!

Pat

[erik]

i doubt you'll ever notice a difference having your memory in dual-channel mode.   RonS tested this here and found the gain to be only about 8% during memory-intensive tasks.

either GPU should be fine for your use.   i'd still choose the 'p' since they seem to hold their value better over time, especially for only $75.

[madcow]

snipped

I don't think you would need a discrete video card for editing photos. A fast hard drive would be nice. Loading large image can be slow on a slow hard drive. Yes, 14 SXVG+ is available. As for memory, configure it to 1 G. When you get your laptop, buy 4 G from newegg for less than $100.

[pailhead]

Although it is a graphics application, Photoshop is the not a very memory-intensive program. Unless you are dealing with HUGE images (several feet across), I can't see you needing a discrete graphics card. I still run all the CS2 stuff on my home desktop PC and it's only got a 1.1GHhz CPU with 1280MB of RAM.

A good screen may help, but whenever you are dealing with RGB (your computer screen) vs. CMYK (real, live print), there will ALWAYS be a difference in how colors render.

[PatM]

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the time you have taken to reply. It has helped me with my choices.

I love message boards like this!

Pat

[WalterR]

Not sure if this is in time to help the original poster, but I would suggest buying the least RAM possible from Lenovo, then upgrading to 4GB using aftermarket 667Mhz RAM. That is what I have done with the orders I just placed for a T61 and 2x2GB RAM. There are a few reasons for this:

• 1. You can now buy 4GB of laptop RAM for under US $100 - much cheaper than from Lenovo.
  2. Surprisingly, Lenovo does not use very high quality RAM (Although it may undergo extra testing compared to that available to the general public)
  3. Roughly 5% faster memory performance by using dual channels, which is only possible with 2 banks of the same size RAM. This is measurable but not noticeable most of the time, but with Photoshop's heavy memory access, it might save you a few minutes a day
  4. Future proofing in case you decide to run a version of Windows or Linux in the future that supports 4GB
  5. Photoshop will use memory equal to 3 times the size of the file you are working on for certain operations, or at least it used to. (I used to be a sys admin and software developer in the publishing and photography industies, but have not been involved with it since 2001, so it is possible this has changed--but I doubt it. If anything, the added history features probably mean even more RAM is used.) Swapping out to disk really slows Photoshop down. When you consider that you will often have multiple images open at once, as well as email or other programs running in the background, you need all the memory you can get.

Edit: I originally suggested using 800MHz RAM, but I have now seen enough reliable reports to be convinced that Santa Rosa chipsets will not access memory any faster than 667MHz, so why spend even a little extra, especially since "bleeding edge" memory may be less stable, and certainly has less of a track record at this point. (Yes, I know it has been around for a few months, but there has not really been much of it sold.) I changed my order today since it had not shipped yet, and went with Transcend memory that got very good reviews and cost less than $80 for 4GB.

[hippy chick]

I would also look at the Sony Sz range..and make sure you see them both in the flesh. I have both and the Sony has a very much better screen for photography and is much lighter albeit with a smaller, but very useable screen. Speeds are comparable, the Lenovo feels very much more sturdy..Apart from that it comes down to price, both have beyond appalling customer support ...Thanks heavens for this forum!

[PatM]

As an update, I went ahead and bought a T61p ... got it this week (6 days from order to delivery).

It's the 14" non-widescreen version with XP Pro. I did order it with 4gigs of ram from Lenovo - I know this is the expensive way to go, and a little stupid too, but that way at least it's all under the same warranty. Besides, it's fully deductible as business equipment and I needed all the deductions I could get for this year anyway. The sale price + coupon helped a lot.

Even though Windows only sees 3gigs of ram, I figured if there's any little bit of performance boost in Photoshop from dual-channel ram, I'd take it. When I'm processing photos fast and furious on deadline, every little bit helps! (I am curious though -- my new Dell desktop with XP Pro sees 3.3 gigs or thereabouts on a 4gig system).

I'm glad I didn't worry too much about all the chatter of poor quality and dim screens... this one is very bright to my eyes, I had to turn it down at first. Calibrated with my colorometer, it seems just fine, although I'm still testing the colors compared to my calibrated desktop.

It does take forever to boot up... I'm not sure I'm up to the challenge of a clean XP install, but hopefully I can at least clean up some of the services and startup programs to speed it up. It's slower in that regard than my T43p.

I'm just now starting to put it through its Photoshop paces. So far I'm very pleased ... there are few non-widescreen laptops out there these days and even fewer with matte screens (I hate glossy). This should hold me for the next three years or so.

Pat

[WalterR]

Even though Windows only sees 3gigs of ram, I figured if there's any little bit of performance boost in Photoshop from dual-channel ram, I'd take it. When I'm processing photos fast and furious on deadline, every little bit helps!

You could also upgrade to the 64 bit version of XP Pro, if all the programs you use run on 64 bit systems. That should see the full 4GB.

I'm glad I didn't worry too much about all the chatter of poor quality and dim screens... this one is very bright to my eyes, I had to turn it down at first. Calibrated with my colorometer, it seems just fine, although I'm still testing the colors compared to my calibrated desktop.

Graphics (and video) professionals almost always set screen brightness lower than other people, in order to see detail and shading in the highlights and shadows.