T61: New HDD

[IJALB]

I'll make a new setup for my T61 and so I think I'll replace the 120 GB HDD (Hitachi HTS541612J9SA00).
I guess I'll buy a 250 GB HDD (anything less will not make much sense).
The most important thing for me is the noise! My actual HDD is a little bit noisy on idle.

Which HDD is very silent (especially in idle)?
Is it useful to buy a FDE (full disk encryption) HDD?
Which drives support the "Active Protection System" (Airbag)? I guess I read somewhere that only Fujitsu and Hitachi HDD are supporting this feature on a full level.
What about Samsung? Normally these HDD are very silent. I've read that there have been some problems with the performance of Samsung HDD which was fixed by a firmware update.

I guess that 5400 rpm is enough for me and they will be not so loud than 7200 rpm drives.
Maybe a 7200 rpm HDD will save power for a longer work unplugged or maybe the opposite.
Are there some HDD which will need very less energy for a longer unplugged-period?

So I'd like to buy a silent 250 GB HDD which needs low energy and supports Active Protection System.
Which drive would be the best for me?

[mgo]

snipped

Most hard drives are failrly quiet. Sometimes there is a little head clatter while the drive is reading and writing. This is not usually a problem with the smaller 2 1/2 inch drives. The 3 1/2 drives mounted in a resonant metal case are usually the noise makers.

No real need for an encrypted drive. Simply use the power on password and the hard drive password built into the ThinkPad bios. They are quite effective, even when the drive is removed from the machine. The hard drive password is within the drive's firmware and that is always with the drive, no matter where it is installed.

Active Protection is a function of the motherboard, not the drive. Here is a link that explains the theory.

ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/pc/pccbbs/mo ... ps2mst.pdf

Hope this helps.

[pae77]

Also, with regard to noise, the latest generation of the Hitachi 7200 rpm drives (the 7k200 series) are extremely quiet, at least in my T61p. Perhaps the rubber mounting rails or bumpers used in the Thinkpad have something to do with it.

In any event, I use my machine in a very quiet environment and I have had two examples of these 7k200 series drives in my machine so far and I couldn't hear either of them without putting my ear pretty close to the right palm rest which the drive sits under. These are the quietest drives I have owned (although I have only used 7200 rpm drives for the past 2 years) and I see no need for a drive to be any quieter than this.

So I think there is no reason why anyone should shy away from a 7200 rpm 7k200, except perhaps price.

(Note: I haven't tried a Seagate so can't comment on them.)

[Stany]

I think this link will help you a bit...
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article29-page2.html

I recently bought a Seagate Momentus 5.3 for a friend of mine and I can tell you this drive is really quit.

[IJALB]

I think this link will help you a bit...
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article29-page2.html

Unfortunately they didn't have actual 2.5 " HDD in their lists.

I recently bought a Seagate Momentus 5.3 for a friend of mine and I can tell you this drive is really quit.

The Momentus 5400.3 (http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datashe ... us5400.pdf) is only available with a maximum of 160 GB and has only Ultra ATA/100 and so it's not for the T61.

The Momentus 5400.4 (http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datashe ... 5400_4.pdf) is also available as 250 GB.
The Momentus 5400.4 seems to be a little bit louder than the Momentus 5400.3 in Idle (2.4 bels instead 2.3 bels) but not so loud in Performance Seek (2.6 bels instead 2.9 bels).
The Momentus 5400.4 has SATA/300 and should fit the T61.

Does the T61 support SATA/300 (AKA SATA II) or just SATA I?

[IJALB]

Active Protection is a function of the motherboard, not the drive. Here is a link that explains the theory.

ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/pc/pccbbs/mo ... ps2mst.pdf

http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Active_Protection_System:

HD-APS requires a hard-disk with head unload ramp technology and also support on the hard-disk firmware to unload heads without flushing the disk cache. This is required, because as soon as the APS system detects a shock is imminent, the system has less than 500ms to prepare for the shock.

Unloading heads without flushing the cache is done using the optional Unload Immediate feature of the IDLE IMMEDIATE ATA command. It finishes whatever sector write is in-flight, and immediately moves the heads to the unload ramp. Without this command, hard-disk APS cannot be trusted, as disks with big caches can take a lot of time to write it all to disk.

So far, only hard-disks with IBM APS firmware, as well as the consumer Fujitsu HV2060AH/MHV2100AH/MHV2120AH HDs have been found to implement all the necessary functions. Head unload technology is reasonably common in modern laptop disks, but the APS firmware is very rare in regular consumer products.

Maybe this is mature and new HDD have these features.

The Momentus 5400 have the Head-Rest Method: "QuietStep™ Ramp Load" but I'm not sure that this is also used for APS or just for silence and battery life.

[ryengineer]

APS, the integrated motion sensor (gyro-accelerometer) is present inside your motherboard, all you need is a drive (all HDD's today have the capability) and ThinkVantage Active Protection System software to make it work.

As far as HDD speed is concerned, the faster the spindle speed the shorter the boot time will be, in addition a little better the battery consumption would be too. Downside is the drive can run hotter than usual. However if you max out your memory then load/access time of the drive would be less as more and more programs could be loaded in the memory at once resulting in significantly improved battery life.

[IJALB]

It seems that the IDLE IMMEDIATE command is includes in the SATA-specification and so all drives should work.

I see now that the Seagate Momentus 5400.4 250GB will be available just in March 2008 .
One nice feature would be the temp. range from 0 - 60 ° C (the most other HDD will just have 5 - 55 ° C)

[IJALB]

...

I recently bought a Seagate Momentus 5.3 for a friend of mine and I can tell you this drive is really quit.

The Momentus 5400.3 (http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datashe ... us5400.pdf) is only available with a maximum of 160 GB and has only Ultra ATA/100 and so it's not for the T61.

This is wrong: The Seagate Momentus 5400.3 is also available with SATA. Sorry.

[ryengineer]

snip....I guess that 5400 rpm is enough for me and they will be not so loud than 7200 rpm drives.....snip

What makes you think 7200rpm drives are louder than 5400rpm?

[IJALB]

What makes you think 7200rpm drives are louder than 5400rpm?

Physics: faster = louder

=3&produkt[17]=17&produkt[16]=16]http://www.tecchannel.de/...

BTW: I guess the Americans (USA) are not so sensitive for noise (AC, fan).

Furthermore there is IMHO no 250GB HDD with 7200rpm.


mod edit: long url shortened

[pae77]

In a very quiet room with no fans or AC, I can't hear my 7k200 spinning over the laptop fan, which itself is pretty quiet. Even when the laptop fan is off, I can't hear the drive being accessed at all without putting my ear against the palmrest. These are simply the quietest drives I have ever experienced.

[ryengineer]

snip...Physics: faster = louder....snip

No, high performance vehicle engines can be optimized to produce marginalized sound output, same is true for aircrafts infact for any system.

Although the link you mentioned is not in English but looking through the SI units the difference isn't much.

You should consider looking at how these acoustics are measured:

How Sound Is Measured and Reported:

Sound pressure is measured using a single microphone and is highly directional. It is very subject to the influence of the environment or chamber. Furthermore, there is no way to subtract out the influence of background or reflected noise.
It does not correlate well to sound power or to noise perceived by the human ear. For this reason, sound pressure specifications were abandoned by the disc drive industry several years ago. The current disc drive industry standard for specifying acoustics is sound power, measured using multiple microphones (usually between 8 and 12) arranged in a sphere around the product to measure the sum of all noise from the drive.

How Loud Is Loud?: 20–30 dB for a quiet library or whisper.

You may also note that acoustics are a market need from computer manufacturers:

Different markets have different requirements for sound power acoustics. Standard PCs (with fans) typically require drive acoustics in the 30-dB range for idle and can easily accommodate seek acoustics that are 3–4 dB higher than idle. High-performance PCs using 7,200-RPM drives are less sensitive to noise and usually require only sub-35 dB idle acoustics. Finally, newer emerging markets, such as consumer electronics or internet appliances, may start featuring fanless products operating in very quiet environments; if so, acoustic requirements for these systems may need to be in the mid-20 dB range, with seeks less than 2 dB louder than idle.....

Different Personal Storage market segments have different needs regarding system and drive noise, measured using sound power. For example, in a traditional PC with a fan, the fan is typically louder than the idling drive, which drowns out all but the most prominent tones (if any) and the seek acoustics. As fans and systems get quieter, OEMs building traditional PCs are looking for drives in the sub-30-dB acoustic range at idle, and for minimal differences between idle and seek (ideally within 3 or 4 dB).

I suggest you kindly read the following white paper from Seagate thoroughly:

Seagate - Disc Drive Acoustics.

and Hitachi as well:

Hitachi - Technical Library.

Hitachi Travelstar 7K200.

Some reviews online:

Hitachi Travelstar 7K200 (200GB) HD Review.

StorageReview.com - Hitachi Travelstar 7K200.

Thinkpads Support Community.com - Seagate Momentus 7200.2 as good as Hitachi Travelstar (PIC).

[pae77]

I like this quote from one of the reviews you posted links to:

"In the end, the Hitachi Travelstar 7K200 blows away the competition by margins seldom seen in the hard drive world. Though it does not come cheaply, the Travelstar's showing is so superior to that of any other drive's that it stands as the only choice for those striving to attain true desktop-level performance from a portable system."

http://www.storagereview.com/HTS722020K ... page=0%2C7

But now it does come at a pretty modest price if not quite cheap, currently $169.99 plus shipping at ZipZoomFly.com

[IJALB]

Today I bought a WD2500BEVS (Western Digital Scorpio 250 GB, 5400 rpm) or rather the external 2.5 " Fujitsu Siemens STORAGEBIRD SOLO 20-U which has the WD-HDD built in.

I opened the external case and installed the WD2500BEVS in my T61.
The WD seems to be not so loud than my original Hitachi HTS541612J9SA00 in idle (even the WD is also not soundless) and in any case it makes noticeable less noise in progress (but this is not my problem and also the Hitachi is not very loud in progress).
It's not so easy to compare the two drives. I just can use one after the other in my T61.
However the WD makes much more vibrations than the Hitachi! I can feel the vibrations of the WD clearly on the palm rest. The vibrations of the Hitachi are negligible.
And so I installed the Hitachi again.

BTW I'd like to say a few words to the STORAGEBIRD SOLO 20-U.
AFAIK there are two versions: One with an AC Adapter (5V) and one package without. I didn't need the AC Adapter on my T61 and also not on my Workstation (PC with ASRock K7S41GX main board).

[erik]

Physics: faster = louder

are you sure about that?   what is faster; the speed of light or the speed of sound?   which is louder; light or sound?

with that said, more RPM does not automatically equate to higher sound levels.   my hitachi 7K200 is markedly more quiet than my seagate 5400.1.   physics theory aside, 7200RPM can be as quiet or more quiet than 5400RPM due to improvements in acoustical dampening and overall differences in harmonics.