Audio capture on X61?

Message

kubinsky · #1 Post by **kubinsky** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:59 pm

Hi,

Has anybody got their X61 working with a tool like Audacity as far as audio capture (recording a live audio stream off of the internet) is concerned? I saw a post related to this problem under the T6x series forum and a couple of members seems to have got it working. I tried the same changes on my X61 which is about 3 weeks old and they wouldn't work.

Any clues/leads/suggestions?

TIA

fritz_the_blank · #2 Post by **fritz_the_blank** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:49 pm

I have been looking for this as well. I am looking into solutions and will keep you up to date with progress if any.

EOMtp · #3 Post by **EOMtp** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:33 pm

Below is one utility which works perfectly:
http://www.riverpast.com/en/prod/audiocapture/

fritz_the_blank · #4 Post by **fritz_the_blank** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:09 pm

Thank you for the link.

The problem for me is not so much the recording software as is the disabled functionality of the SoundMax software. As I understand it, the only thing that will record is the internal microphone or a device connected to the microphone input.

This is a big headache for me as I cannot use Sonar 7 or other digital audio software to record the line in as I can on my T42 or just about any older computer that I have in the house.

As I understand it, SoundMax deliberately crippled this feature to appease the recording industry. Of course, that may very well just be hearsay. I have no evidence to support that claim.

EOMtp · #5 Post by **EOMtp** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:04 am

fritz_the_blank wrote:The problem for me is ... the disabled functionality of the SoundMax software.

If you can hear it when you play it, then you can record it. If you give me a precise example of something that you wish to do that you cannot do, perhaps I can offer you a solution.

fritz_the_blank · #6 Post by **fritz_the_blank** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:32 pm

Thank you once again for posting.

I am a professor of music, and I frequently record lectures if I have to be a away for conferences and etc. These lectures generally comprise my speaking into a USB headset microphone (this works perfectly) interspersed with music excerpts from .mp3 files I have on my computer or from streaming files from the Classical Music Library (a campus resource of classical music recordings).

On my t42, I had separate volume controls on the mixer for microphone, wave, and line-in. As such I could record whatever source I needed in reasonably hi-fidelity sound. With x61, however, I only have the ability to record with the microphone. As such, if I play sounds on the computer, the microphone records the sounds from speakers, and the sound is terrible. Through trial and error, I was able to expose a stereo-mix volume control for recording, but it makes no difference: all sound comes through the built-in microphone.

So in short, I would like to record sounds generated by my computer without using the microphone.

Does that make sense?

EOMtp · #7 Post by **EOMtp** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:44 pm

Thank you for the clarification. Indeed, the T6x/X6x units have the Line In recording feature disabled at the hardware level. The only known software solution is the following:

Virtual Audio Cable:
http://software.muzychenko.net/eng/vac.html

The utility uses the CPU to sample the audio and outputs the stream to a virtual cable which can be routed to any recording program's input.

fritz_the_blank · #8 Post by **fritz_the_blank** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:20 pm

Thank you very much for your post. I will be sure to try that.

<rant> Why would Lenovo allow this to happen????--I wanted to upgrade rather than downgrade my system!!! </rant>

fritz_the_blank · #9 Post by **fritz_the_blank** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:50 pm

I just tried the Virtual Audio Cable, and it works perfectly. Now I just need to pony up the $40 that it costs.

Thank you very much for your help, I really appreciate it.

FtB

smvp6459 · #10 Post by **smvp6459** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:30 am

I was able to get "stereo mix" to show up in Vista for the SoundMax soundcard by messing with the installation .inf file and the registry. However, even at 100, the output is too low to record and the sound level is also affected by the volume of the sound coming out of the speakers.

If anyone knows a registry tweak that alters the volume level and independence of "stereo mix" from the speaker volume, I'm all ears.

fritz_the_blank · #11 Post by **fritz_the_blank** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:18 am

I was able to do the same thing, but even if you mute the microphone, all you are hearing is indeed the faint signal or noise produced from the microphone itself.

I have yet to find a registry tweak to fix this.

EOMtp · #12 Post by **EOMtp** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:50 pm

The feature is disabled in hardware -- no Registry tweak is going to "fix" that!

fritz_the_blank · #13 Post by **fritz_the_blank** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:26 pm

So it would seem. Yet, Virtual Audio Cable allows this to happen with software. So, I remain unclear how a software solution overrides disabled hardware.

EOMtp · #14 Post by **EOMtp** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:06 pm

fritz_the_blank wrote:how a software solution overrides disabled hardware.

It is not overriding disabled hardware; it is emulating it (And it does this pretty well!).
Imagine the MULTIPLY unit in the CPU being disabled; no problem -- one can emulate it with software that uses the ADD unit, or better still, the LOG and ADD units.

fritz_the_blank · #15 Post by **fritz_the_blank** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:09 pm

Now that clarifies things completely.

Thank you for posting as this will save me and others from wasting time looking for a registry fix.

Best,

FtB

Blue Thunder · #16 Post by **Blue Thunder** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:52 am

The T60 series isn't affected by this (at least mine isn't) so I'm just wondering if this is true of the X60 too?

EOMtp · #17 Post by **EOMtp** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 1:47 pm

Blue Thunder wrote:The T60 series isn't affected by this (at least mine isn't) ...

Yours, along with every other production T6x/X6x, is affected.

Blue Thunder · #18 Post by **Blue Thunder** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:21 am

Huh, thats weird. I've got stereo mix available in the sound options and I've used it to record from the sound card.

smvp6459 · #19 Post by **smvp6459** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:00 pm

Blue Thunder wrote:Huh, thats weird. I've got stereo mix available in the sound options and I've used it to record from the sound card.

Are you running XP or Vista?

Blue Thunder · #20 Post by **Blue Thunder** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:44 am

I'm running XP. I'm on SP3 now, but I think I was on SP2 when I last used it.

smvp6459 · #21 Post by **smvp6459** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:23 am

Blue Thunder wrote:I'm running XP. I'm on SP3 now, but I think I was on SP2 when I last used it.

Vista is the one where this ability is disabled. It should remain functional in XP, unless SP3 has changed that ability.

EOMtp · #22 Post by **EOMtp** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:04 pm

smvp6459 wrote:Vista is the one where this ability is disabled. It should remain functional in XP, unless SP3 has changed that ability.

The functionality was disabled in the chipset of the X6x/T6x machines -- the lack of it has nothing to do with the operating system or any Service Pack.

Blue Thunder · #23 Post by **Blue Thunder** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:07 pm

Thats really weird... I don't know how I did it anymore. I guess I'll look into it again if I have the time - perhaps even review the thread in the T6x forum as well.

smvp6459 · #24 Post by **smvp6459** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:09 pm

EOMtp wrote:The functionality was disabled in the chipset of the X6x/T6x machines -- the lack of it has nothing to do with the operating system or any Service Pack.

If you're saying that you cannot use an X60, X60s, X60T, X61, X61s, or an X61T to record audio produced from within the machine, you're wrong. With an X60s running XP I can record through the stereo mix audio being produced in another program, with no loss of fidelity. Is it possible that the X61/s/T chipset removed that feature?

EOMtp · #25 Post by **EOMtp** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:08 pm

smvp6459 wrote:...you're wrong. With an X60s running XP I can record through the stereo mix audio being produced in another program...

Oh, how I wish I were wrong in this case! Take another look at what you think is happening. (Hint: The audio is being routed to the mic input!) Mute the audio output and see if you can capture the audio stream.

loyukfai · #26 Post by **loyukfai** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:16 pm

Just tried playing a YouTube clip and record the sound using Audacity (1.3.5)... When the speaker sound is muted, or a headphone is plugged in, no audio is captured...

I remember reading not long ago that people discovered the a recording function is crippled in many brands of laptops, and asked the manufacturers to release update drivers to bring back the function... Is it the same thing being discussed here...? And did any manufacturer consented at last...?

Besides VAC, is it possible to use a USB audio device with in/out to record the sound...? But VAC seems to be a simpler solution anyway.

EOMtp · #27 Post by **EOMtp** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:38 am

loyukfai wrote:...update drivers to bring back the function...
Besides VAC, is it possible to use a USB audio device with in/out to record the sound...?

Drivers are not enough -- updated drivers cannot enable what has been disabled by Intel in the hardware. Yes, USB devices with Audio In can be used to record sound. VAC uses software to emulate the disabled hardware.

Blue Thunder · #28 Post by **Blue Thunder** » Sat Aug 30, 2008 2:38 am

It seems, EOMtp, you're right (not entirely sure since I can't find the option in windows to mute the microphone port). But at least I can record sound at a level of quality that my ears can't distinguish

loyukfai · #29 Post by **loyukfai** » Sat Aug 30, 2008 3:02 pm

EOMtp wrote:Drivers are not enough -- updated drivers cannot enable what has been disabled by Intel in the hardware. Yes, USB devices with Audio In can be used to record sound. VAC uses software to emulate the disabled hardware.

I read a bit more... Looks like the function wasn't disabled by Intel, but individual manufacturers like Dell and Lenovo, and possibly the codec makers like SigmaTel and Analog Devices...

Besides, at least in one case, a manufacturer (Dell) has found a workaround and released an updated driver to bring back the functionality... Albeit it's for XP it's reported to work under Vista as well... However, it's could be that this cases, while look ostensibly similar, is actually a different issue.

Besides, a cable connecting the headphone and mic-in will also work... However, VAC probably provides better quality (?) because everything is done internally and digitally...? Also, there could be some specific use whereas stereo mix is a simpler solution, such as recording a VoIP call...?

Also, there are quite a few discussions over forums.lenovo.com... From what I can tell, they told the people that they should have looked carefully at the specifications, but then themselves couldn't point out where in the specifications has said or implied the lack of this functionality...

P.S. I just scanned through the many threads quickly so if anything above is incorrect, I would highly appreciate if anyone can correct it...

References:
http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/ ... -dell.aspx
http://www.dellideastorm.com/article/sh ... ?page=last
http://forums.lenovo.com/lnv/board/mess ... ead.id=316

dr_st · #30 Post by **dr_st** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:37 am

EOMtp - I do believe you are wrong about the T60, at least.

When selecting Stereo Mix in the recording options, you can directly record any audio produced by the system into any audio recording application.

Of course when you mute the audio, you don't record anything, because the mute button on the Thinkpads essentially kills any audio (built-in speakers, headphone jack, even the jack on the dock). However, as long as it is not muted, you can record, even if you plug in headphones, even if it is on zero volume - it stll records on the same level.

The mic is not involved. The recording does not respond to it at all.

This feature is available on the T60, and disabled on the T61, that's a pretty well-established fact. I would assume that similarly it is available on the X60 but not on the X61, simply because we are talking about parallel machines (similar chipsets/platforms).

Audio capture on X61?

Audio capture on X61?

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