Very small review (or rather rant) on T61 Wide screen

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ellipse · #1 Post by **ellipse** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:25 am

I'm a press officer in a big international institution, my job is to write, day-in, day-out, press releases of conferences, meetings etc. Recently they took away our 14''-screen T40-T41 Thinkpads and replaced them with brand new T61's, complete with wide 15'' screens.

My verdict after two months:

Minus: my new Thinkpad is a heavy brute that has nearly destroyed my fine leather messenger-bag. It takes too much space on already cramped tables. Dual processors have absolutely no impact on Word + Firefox, my main tools. The new Windows key sits between Crtl and Alt, which means lots of mistakes. The screen is not significantly brighter than the old T40.

Plus: as far as my job is concerned, none. A capable desktop replacement, perhaps, but not a good laptop, for sure.

I have asked back my old T40!

#2 Post by **jdhurst** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:43 am

ellipse wrote:<snip>
My verdict after two months:

Minus: my new Thinkpad is a heavy brute that has nearly destroyed my fine leather messenger-bag. It takes too much space on already cramped tables. <snip>

I have asked my Toronto vendor for a quote on a T61p with Vista Business on it. This will be a transition machine while I set up Vista to my needs and liking.

The T61p I am trying to specify has a 14.1 inch 4x3 aspect ration SXGA screen, and I *think* but I do not *know* that the overall dimensions are 12" x 10" x 1.1". That is the same as my T41 and it will fit in my venerable old (but fine) leather bag that I got six or seven years ago.

I empathize with you entirely. ... JDH

arlab · #3 Post by **arlab** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:04 am

Thw windows key is present in most (if not all) present keyboards. You'll get used to it.

As for the size, I like it that way. Wouldn't want it any smaller. But there is also a 14 inches version of the T61p...

Volker · #4 Post by **Volker** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:52 am

I agree completely, if you are looking for a small portable typewriter then the 15.4" widescreen T61 is not for you. But if you are moving from desk to desk and doing software development then its absolutely great.

You would be a lot more happy with the 14" T61 or maybe X-series.

mattbiernat · #5 Post by **mattbiernat** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:56 am

actually ~15/14" screen is perfect if you do a lot of witting. not very portable but very easy on the eyes and lets you see much more than just a 12" XGA.

kernelpanic · #6 Post by **kernelpanic** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:05 pm

The problem is not with Thinkpad - the problem is that they got you the WRONG Thinkpad. I f you had an x61 model you would be extolling the virtues of Lenovo to all the miscreants that read your missives... You should go to your tech geeks and intimidate them into ordering the model that you need to do your work most efficiently.

pailhead · #7 Post by **pailhead** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:09 pm

Widescreens rule, your employer just bought the wrong system. Being a designer, I'm all about them.

About the Windows key - learn keyboard navigation and discover what Windows excels at. Windows is one of the only operating systems that can function completely without the use of a mouse/nav-pad.

ran007 · #8 Post by **ran007** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:14 am

I own the same T61, and you guys may fry me up when I say this next thing but...

Why don't you get a MacBook Air http://www.apple.com/macbookair/ with Office 2008, if size is a factor? In fact, it's got a similar processor and 2GB RAM. It's fast.. You can't go wrong for someone like you. I'm suprised they don't have you on a Mac anyways as a writer. It really may be the right tool for you, because it's simple.

ellipse · #9 Post by **ellipse** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:29 am

ran007 wrote:I own the same T61, and you guys may fry me up when I say this next thing but...

Why don't you get a MacBook Air http://www.apple.com/macbookair/ with Office 2008, if size is a factor? In fact, it's got a similar processor and 2GB RAM. It's fast.. You can't go wrong for someone like you. I'm suprised they don't have you on a Mac anyways as a writer. It really may be the right tool for you, because it's simple.

I cannot choose my hardware, it's a big, very centralized organisation. I guess they try to simplifiy the management of their huge network, which should explain why there is no Mac here (or maybe they just get better discounts / support from IBM, Dell and the like).

Anyway they did the right choice with the Thinkpads, their keyboards are much better than the Fujitsu's we had a few years ago, and the keyboard is what matters most in a computer for this kind of job, methinks.

As a previous poster said, they've chosen the wrong model, that's all. And they've just given me back the old T40!

Troels · #10 Post by **Troels** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:48 am

If i had to recommend an Apple notebook, it certainly wouldn't be the Air macbook:

- No dock possiblities, which many businesses use
- No real connectivity except 1 USB port (i.e. no pc card)
- Soldered in memory
- Custom processor design or so they say - i.e. if it needs to be replaced, Apple can charge whatever they want.
- Pruny ewy 1.8" 4200 rpm hard drive.
- Expensive due to size.
- It's a misconseption that the casing material is what saves the laptop from failure. Due to the available space for the LCD, it is relatively easy to break by dropping.
- Replacement parts are not available, and macs are far from being modular designs.

Most of this is purely by given the specifications. So i think that a macbook would be a much better choice if it had to be from apple.

If i had to write a lot of stuff, i would not be using a laptop keyboard i think. While the thinkpads are legendary for good keyboards generally, nothing really can replace a good external keyboard (not talking about MS or logitech here).

Ellipse,
I completely understand why you asked back your T40. Why did they decide to replace them with T61s?
I can see why there is no benefit in performance for you to switch to a T61 or similar.
I noticed a small step in going from a 1.7 GHz P-M to a 2 GHz core duo in booting time, and launching time for a few applications was shortened, but even under 3D work, the processor is not utilized fully. I.e. the benefits to a Core 2 Duo, Santa rosa or penryn for me would be zero, nada, none - and i believe it is the case for 95% of people working on laptops. For normal 2D work i would be more than happy with a P-III system, if it wasn't for the fact that MS insists that eye candy is more important than speed (sometimes).

For me, the 4:3 is the perfect form factor because it is easier to fit in most places - i.e. bags and sleeves.

eyestrain · #11 Post by **eyestrain** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:48 am

Maybe I got the wrong numbers, but from a quick check of specs, the new Apple is 3.0 lbs, and X61s is 2.7, and cheaper, faster, more flexible, and probably has much better keyboard.

Of course, Apple is thinner, and has a larger screen. And has OS X.

Maybe there's a thread on this somewhere...

ran007 · #12 Post by **ran007** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:10 am

The reason I mentioned it is because I'm a writer myself for an IT consulting firm. I write and document procedures all day long.

They bought me this T61 and although it's maxed to 4GB, it has a huge screen, and it's fast. But it's pretty heavy and with this huge battery hanging out the back, it only lasts maybe 3 hours. I had to buy a new bag to accomidate this beast. It's a very good desktop replacement, but the fact is, I am at a different part of the US each week. I need portability and style.

I completely understand how IT departments standardize thier infrastructure. Trust me, I get it. I'm one of those consultants that sits with the customer and recommends these management practices.

However, all I need is email and a good word processor, so why do I need this heavy beast? I want something with a 5 hour battery life, and is extrememly portable. I saw the Air, and was mesmerized with it's portability. I don't need expansion. I don't need to dock. If I need to upgrade in a year, then I'll buy another one with more room or more RAM. Expandability is so overrated since laptops and hardware in general are so cheap and powerful these days.

If it dies within a year, I just walk into the apple store, and have it swapped out. I'm not sure if my local lenovo store would do that for me.

Unfortunately, and with respect, your IT dept. is standardized. You probably have no chance in having a product that matches your needs as well as your intellect and creativity, but it never hurts to ask.

At least try and swap for the X series. It's a good one too.

crazyfrog · #13 Post by **crazyfrog** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:46 am

ellipse wrote:I have asked back my old T40!

It is just a simple matter of fact that you are getting much much used to old things.

New T60/T61 are superior to old T4X in almost everything:

1. New generation of dual core CPU, faster graphics and larger ram definitely make T60/T61 respond much faster to user input than T4X. I can't even resist the speed of my T43 opening a Word document and browsing directories after upgrading to T60. So what you said about "absolutely no impact on Word + Firefox" is wrong.

2. Wide screen or high definition screen on T60/T61 shows more contents as compared to T40's normal XGA screen. So you can see more things and open more windows when working. It is more useful when you browse Internet: no need to frequently press PageUp/PageDown or drag scroll bar.

3. It is ridiculous to complain about Windows Key. Almost all PC/laptops runing windows have that key for years except old IBM Thinkpad. Lenovo just ended IBM's odd habit in producing Thinkpads.

4. Brighter screen is useful when background lighting is strong, say working under sunlight. For most office and home environment, set screen level to 3 and 5 out of 7 is quite enough for long time working. Bright screen means one thing: hurting eyes.

ellipse · #14 Post by **ellipse** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:42 pm

>>I completely understand why you asked back your T40. Why did they decide to replace them with T61s?

I don't really know, they phase in a new batch of computers every 3 years or so. We were all happy when the Fujitsu were retired and the T40-1-2 came.

>>It is just a simple matter of fact that you are getting much much used to old things.

You are right! But for this job I need to work fast. So I'd rather not need to think about the hardware and I don't care a jot for newness and suchlike. See below also.

>>It is ridiculous to complain about Windows Key.

I agree on this! But hey, habits die hard. And the Alt key has shrunk in size due to the new Windows key: for two weeks I kept calling the main menu instead of whatever else I wanted.

>> New generation of dual core CPU, faster graphics and larger ram definitely make T60/T61 respond much faster to user input than T4X. I can't even resist the speed of my T43 opening a Word document and browsing directories after upgrading to T60. So what you said about "absolutely no impact on Word + Firefox" is wr ong.

I don't agree completely with this. Yes the general Windows XP inteface on the T61 seems faster in some respects, opening some windows, browsing the tree etc. (perhaps it's due to the hard drive). However user input and running Word 2003 are not any faster on the T61 (I write rather short texts). For Firefox I'm less sure, you may be right.

>>You would be a lot more happy with the 14" T61 or maybe X-series
>>At least try and swap for the X series. It's a good one too.

I recently swapped my old X30 for an X31, for my personal use. I take with me on trips to work at translations mainly. I like it a lot, but frankly the small screen gives me headaches after very long sessions and the keyboard is a bit on the tiny side.

>>Wide screen or high definition screen on T60/T61 shows more contents as compared to T40's normal XGA screen. So you can see more things and open more windows when working.

Yes that's what I thought first. I set up the T61's screen to display Word on the left side and two other frequently accessed directories on the right side. I found myself constantly closing the small windows to better concentrate on my text, reopening the windows, closing the windows...

>>Trust me, I get it. I'm one of those consultants that sits with the customer and recommends these management practices.
Interesting. Under what circumstances would you recommend a fleet of MacBook / MacBook Pros to a big corporation? in lieu of PCs I mean.

XIII · #15 Post by **XIII** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:19 pm

I would probably recommend MacBook for companies that most employee are computer illiterate, or companies that has no computer maintaining staff.
Under normal circumstance, no.

ran007 · #16 Post by **ran007** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:57 pm

>>Trust me, I get it. I'm one of those consultants that sits with the customer and recommends these management practices.
Interesting. Under what circumstances would you recommend a fleet of MacBook / MacBook Pros to a big corporation? in lieu of PCs I mean."

Ellipse, come on. Don't take what I said out of context. I never said that I recommend MacBooks, or any other apple products to a big corporation. I recommend and implement management practices of standardization across the IT enterprise. It's not my job to recommend products to any organization, big or small, private or public.

For me personally, I think it's a matter of portability, functionality simplicity, style, and a little bit of status.

#17 Post by **bill bolton** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:17 pm

Troels wrote:Why did they decide to replace them with T61s?

For a corporate environment, probably because a T40 is by now well out of standard 3 year warranty and has become relatively expensive to maintain in terms of TCO (total cost of ownership).

Cheers,

Bill B.

#18 Post by **BillMorrow** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:01 pm

i have GOTTA say that this is one of the better threads i have read this year..!

i would just hang on to that T40 until it craps out and then buy a used one and tell no one..!

the other fellow with the, uhmm, offcolor remark, was a little off base but i got a good laugh out of that now missing post and poster..

~~..happy trails..~~
the green parrot who is pecking at the keyboard..

#19 Post by **carbon_unit** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:04 pm

BillMorrow wrote:i have GOTTA say that this is one of the better threads i have read this year..!

Yeah, all 20 days of it.

/me ducks and runs.......

Crunch · #20 Post by **Crunch** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:48 pm

ellipse wrote: I have asked back my old T40!

You use the screen a lot. You don't want a widescreen. You want a bright screen.

Get yourself a T42p, T43p, or T60p with the following characteristics: 15" SXGA+ or 15" UXGA This will get you a what's called IPS Flexview screen. Currently, Lenovo no longer makes them, and I read threads after threads about people hating their respective T61's for this, along with quite a few other reasons.. And no more 4:3 15 inchers anymore either. You can upgrade a T60p to up to 3GB of RAM, a T7600 Core 2 Duo (2.33GHz) CPU, so specs-wise, you'll be on the same page, as most T61's and T61p's. Plus, they're dirt cheap in comparison.

If you want to go even cheaper and don't need 2 cores, as you said, as you seem to use it almost exclusively for writing, you don't need a Core Duo, much less a Core 2 Duo. A decent Pentium M will suffice and then some. Just make sure you get the "p" version of any T42p or T43p or T60p in the 15" SXGA+ or 15" UXGA flavor.

If you've never seen an IPS Flexview in action, you'll likely be shocked at its superior quality. I know I was, a few years ago! Be careful, once you go IPS, you may not ever want anything else...and anything else would be something less! Again, I never have and it has been years!

If you want help finding one, let me know. I've worked for IBM on a freelance basis for 9 years and have had 12 Thinkpads, the last four of which were all ones with IPS Flexview: a T42p SXGA+, a T43p UXGA, a T60p SXGA+, and now another T60p UXGA (because I wanted UXGA back after I had had it in my T43p). So now I'm "stuck with UXGA AND IPS. lol...It's a good place to be stuck in, though, as I also work for a living using my Thinkpad every day for many hours.

One more benefit of Flexview is what someone like you especially would benefit a LOT from. It's easy on the eyes!! Apparently, you write a lot, and all day long at that. So IPS Flexview is good for your health, too!

Here is a link, so you can get a better idea. Click on 2.1, and 2.2. for definitions, and a description of the technology, and 2.2 refers to an even better, crisper version of IPS, but any IPS Flexview will blow you away!

http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/TFT_display

I hope this helps!

pilote · #21 Post by **pilote** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:59 am

as a consultant, i'm all for carrying less weight in my bag. i own 2 t60's T7200: a 15.1 wsxga+ and a 15 sxga+...i'm using the the wideview 100% of the time for my work; the flexview i've only turned on just to set it up, its back in its original box.

i like the extra real estate of the widescreen. the extra weight (over a 14.1 unit) is a very minor hassle; i can carry it. for me, the additional functional benefits of this unit outweigh the size/weight issues.

the flexview T60 screen looked ok when i fired it up, but i didn't find it to be so tremendously awesome over the wsxga+...i picked up the special 15"er as a presentation unit; it has yet to serve in that capacity...nice to have in reserve though...since the op system in it is vista; i didn't want to deal with a new system on the job just yet (the widescreen has XP)

weight becomes a real issue when i fly on those out of state gigs; that's why i'm considering something in the x series...

pianowizard · #22 Post by **pianowizard** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:08 am

pilote wrote:i picked up the special 15"er as a presentation unit

You mean you got this 4:3 laptop to match the aspect ratio of your projector? Widescreen laptops can actually drive 4:3 projectors just fine.

pilote · #23 Post by **pilote** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:41 pm

pianowizard wrote:
pilote wrote:i picked up the special 15"er as a presentation unit
You mean you got this 4:3 laptop to match the aspect ratio of your projector? Widescreen laptops can actually drive 4:3 projectors just fine.

i do more of sitting down with clients with my machine in front of them...the flexview with its wide viewing angles means people from the sides can view my work easier...

the flexview unit was actually going to be my primary workstation, but along came the big T60 widescreen deals in Dec at the outlet, and i hit it again...and i just prefer using XP and the widescreen over the Vista/flexview unit (for now)...

ellipse · #24 Post by **ellipse** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:32 pm

BillMorrow wrote:i have GOTTA say that this is one of the better threads i have read this year..!

i would just hang on to that T40 until it craps out and then buy a used one and tell no one..!

the other fellow with the, uhmm, offcolor remark, was a little off base but i got a good laugh out of that now missing post and poster..

~~..happy trails..~~
the green parrot who is pecking at the keyboard..

OK OK, I admit my point was not THAT interesting after all and the rant a bit empty in the end. However, if someone had a good laugh because of me (or thanks to me perhaps?), the thread will prove not so useless after all.

Regarding the T40 - oh wait, no, shut up ellipse .

kchung · #25 Post by **kchung** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:15 pm

I work in one of those companies with standardized laptops, mixed Dells and Thinkpads. T60s are bigger and I think heavier, but as noted by other posters, I think the wide screen is the issue for you.

Now on the flip side, my company has seen very frequent motherboard related failures in the T40 series laptops, particulary in the the T41 and T41p model. Why? Because the base of the laptop flexes too much and combined with employees have a bad habit of carrying the laptops around with the lids open results in the mother boards failing, apparently to popped chips or busted connections on the boards.

My work laptop is a 4 year t41 and I baby the thing but it too is exhibiting the classic random shutdown/crash of a bad mb (it did get loaned out to a few employees over the years on a emerency basis so it's possible one or more of them did something that contributed to the issue.

In any case, I'm hoping the TCO for the T60 series is less in terms of hardware failures, although I just posted today about the issues with clogged heat sinks on T60p laptops.

sjthinkpader · #26 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:56 am

One of the things that is annoying with the T60 is that the sleep/standby switch doesn't always work right. I would close it and put it in my case. Then by the time I get home and found that it is still on, hot as hell from being in the case.

Also the undock button on the dock sometime will refuse to let me undock. It is completely random.

pae77 · #27 Post by **pae77** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:28 pm

For that reason, when transporting in my case, I think I would tend to use hibernate rather than sleep, (but I don't move mine very often, so that is not a major inconvenience to me).

SafeHarbor · #28 Post by **SafeHarbor** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:27 pm

I agree - hibernate in the case. Standby produces too much heat to leave in the case.

Very small review (or rather rant) on T61 Wide screen

Very small review (or rather rant) on T61 Wide screen

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