Problem booting

Message

dilip · #1 Post by **dilip** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:52 pm

I recently bought a larger hard drive for my T42 and went through the process of imaging it with the IBM image from recovery discs. All seemed to go well and I could boot from this larger drive. I wasn't ready to copy my old files over so just set it aside a few weeks ago, but today when my original 40GB drive had problems booting ("OS not found"), I tried booting from the new drive and am having problems.

When I boot with the new drive as the primary and the old 40GB in the 2nd hard disk adapter, the computer boots up but C: is assigned to the old drive and the new one is D:. It does boot up according to the image on the new one.

When I boot with the new drive all by itself or with another drive or an empty CDR, I get a boot sequence up to a blue WinXP screen, then it freezes. My boot sequence that I set in the BIOS is:

1. IDE HDD0:
2. Legacy Floppy Drives
3. ATAPI CD0:
4. USB CD:

Any thoughts? I am guessing that my old drive has a boot sector problem. But why can't I boot the new drive? Thanks.

Dilip

sjthinkpader · #2 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:50 am

There are disk upgrade software such as Apricorn's Easy GIG II. In advance mode, you can do the copy and partition expansion in one operation. Apricorn was an IBM partner several years ago.

Easy GIG II is also a good backup and restore utility to protect your data. Another good one to use is Norton Ghost.

What is the brand and model of your new disk?

There are software that can repair and recover your old drive if only the FAT is damaged. Here is the one I used.

http://www.partitionsupport.com/index.html

dilip · #3 Post by **dilip** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:10 pm

Thanks. I do have the Easy Gig II but wasn't really concerned at this point about data copying. Yesterday my machine simply wouldn't boot! Surprise, suprise, it is up now!

I found that the computer wouldn't have power so removed the battery and pressed the power button a few times to discharge any capacitors. I had to do that a number of times yesterday as well as just now. I just booted with my standard configuration with the 40GB drive in and a CDR in the expansion slot. I got the message to hit F11 to go into recovery mode; I hit F11 (possibly too late?) and got a normal boot!

So ...

Why was I getting an "OS not found" with the new and old drives yesterday - but not today?

How can I boot with my new disk?

Any explanation as to why things are working, at least with my old disk, today?

Thanks!

Dilip

sjthinkpader wrote:There are disk upgrade software such as Apricorn's Easy GIG II. In advance mode, you can do the copy and partition expansion in one operation. Apricorn was an IBM partner several years ago.

Easy GIG II is also a good backup and restore utility to protect your data. Another good one to use is Norton Ghost.

What is the brand and model of your new disk?

There are software that can repair and recover your old drive if only the FAT is damaged. Here is the one I used.

http://www.partitionsupport.com/index.html

sjthinkpader · #4 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:32 pm

I have seen this problem when two bootable drives are in the system, that the other drive appeared as the master. Both the HDD slot and the UltraBay are mapped on the same IDE channel in some models but on separate channels in others.

The UltraBay drive tray itself is bootable in the absence of a drive in the HDD slot. When I use a CF card and CF/ATA adapter to boot a Thinkpad, I actually use the UltraBay tray since this adapter is too short to insert it into the HDD bay easily.

Since I normally use EasyGIG II to copy drives, it gives you a reminder to remove the original drive after shutdown.

I suggest to put the old drive back in the HDD slot and use EasyGIG II to make the copy and partition expansion with the new drive in an UltraBay drive tray.

dilip · #5 Post by **dilip** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:12 pm

Thanks. I am still puzzled though and a little suspicious with the problems that I had booting either disk. Thank heavens I thought to hit F11 - though I didn't end up going into Recovery. Note that I did create a bootable Hitachi 160GB drive.

Will it work to boot the 160GB drive with just an empty CD reader in the expansion slot (I hope that it will work and I won't get stuck in the bootup as I did when I tried it last!), then attach the old 40GB drive via a EZGig sled to copy files onto the new drive, then never boot with both disks attached at the same time? It sounds strange as my default setup used to be having 2 40GB drives, one in the boot position and one in the expansion slot. I can't remember if both were bootable. Thanks.

Dilip

sjthinkpader wrote:I have seen this problem when two bootable drives are in the system, that the other drive appeared as the master. Both the HDD slot and the UltraBay are mapped on the same IDE channel in some models but on separate channels in others.

The UltraBay drive tray itself is bootable in the absence of a drive in the HDD slot. When I use a CF card and CF/ATA adapter to boot a Thinkpad, I actually use the UltraBay tray since this adapter is too short to insert it into the HDD bay easily.

Since I normally use EasyGIG II to copy drives, it gives you a reminder to remove the original drive after shutdown.

I suggest to put the old drive back in the HDD slot and use EasyGIG II to make the copy and partition expansion with the new drive in an UltraBay drive tray.

sjthinkpader · #6 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:48 pm

If you use 2x 40GB in your system, Windows may put the swap file in the drive with more available space, which may be drive D. Then you may run into missing swap file problem when you go to one drive.

I stopped using the EasyGIG II PCMCIA adapter since it is so slow. The UltraBay tray is much faster.

dilip · #7 Post by **dilip** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:04 pm

Thanks. That's ideally what I want - to boot from my 160GB drive as C: and have the original 40GB in the 2nd hard disk adapter as a D: data drive.

dilip · #8 Post by **dilip** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:44 am

I've tried again today and pretty much have the same situation. My situation is of more concern now because I have been seeing event id 51 messages (maybe half a dozen a day for the last few weeks!) on my old 40GB drive, which I've researched to see that this may be an early indication of an impending hard disk crash.

I was first made aware that there may be a problem a few days ago. I have had around 1GB free on my primary WinXP hard disk for some months now and that's why I want to transitioning to a larger hard disk. But suddenly I got a strange message that my disk space problem was cleaned up and I have 3.2GB free!! I didn't erase a lot of files and can't on inspection see any major changes. Using command EVENTVWR, I found the system event ID 51 messages.

So, same story. I try to boot from the new larger capacity drive and it stalls on the second blue WinXP screen (I have waited maybe 5m - is it possible I just need to patiently wait much longer?). I then put the original 40GB into the second hard disk adapter and the bay, and I get the computer to boot! It seems to be booting the new drive, as I get a vanilla WinXP system. But it assigns C: to the old drive in the bay and D: to the boot drive!!

Other weird things happen once booted. I can't connect to the internet even though I have a direct connection. I can't change TCPIP settings as they are greyed out. I've not seen that before! I'm about to try booting just with the new drive and going into diagnostics in the pre-desktop area (F11 at startup) and seeing if anything shows up there. I very much appreciate any thoughts!

Dilip

P.S. I have a complete image backup of the 40GB via Retrospect Express 6.5 .

dilip · #9 Post by **dilip** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:05 pm

Here's an update. IBM service had me run PC Doctor diagnostics via an F11 boot. I ran tests against the 160GB (which really is only 144GB) drive, and they all came out fine. Service suggested that somehow the registry or something else got corrupted, preventing WinXP from opening. So they had me restore the factory image starting with an F11 reboot, then choosing to reinstall. Luckily it was largely automated till the end and didn't require going back to the CDs.

I am now up with a vanilla WinXP system and about to start customizing it and bringing my old data in. Here are some questions:

* Any idea why this happened? I hardly used this new drive. I am wondering if I should avoid having my old 40GB drive in the 2nd hard disk position. I do need to get files off it, but have a backup on a USB drive, and can get the files back that way. Maybe when I'm back together, I can format the replacement 40GB and just use it as a non-bootable data 2nd hard disk, though I'd prefer it to be bootable as a backup.

* IBM is sending me a replacement 40GB drive as my old, original one has been giving me system event ID 51 errors, indicating an impending crash. When I get the new drive, how can I easily clone the old drive, maintaining the IBM hidden partition and all? I suspect that if I did a restore from Retrospect, I would get a bootable image of the drive with just the active partition.

* Should I be suspect about using the larger drive or using a 2nd hard disk? I used to use for years the 2nd hard disk adapter and had 2 40GB drives in my computer. I really don't want to spend the time to bring data and applications over to see this kind of crash again.

Thanks!

Dilip

P.S. Is there a market to get enough $ for the brand new 40GB coming to fund a significant portion of getting a new "official" 80GB? I want to make sure that other than my new 144GB drive, I have IBM drives so that IBM service can service them.

dilip wrote:I've tried again today and pretty much have the same situation. My situation is of more concern now because I have been seeing event id 51 messages (maybe half a dozen a day for the last few weeks!) on my old 40GB drive, which I've researched to see that this may be an early indication of an impending hard disk crash.

I was first made aware that there may be a problem a few days ago. I have had around 1GB free on my primary WinXP hard disk for some months now and that's why I want to transitioning to a larger hard disk. But suddenly I got a strange message that my disk space problem was cleaned up and I have 3.2GB free!! I didn't erase a lot of files and can't on inspection see any major changes. Using command EVENTVWR, I found the system event ID 51 messages.

So, same story. I try to boot from the new larger capacity drive and it stalls on the second blue WinXP screen (I have waited maybe 5m - is it possible I just need to patiently wait much longer?). I then put the original 40GB into the second hard disk adapter and the bay, and I get the computer to boot! It seems to be booting the new drive, as I get a vanilla WinXP system. But it assigns C: to the old drive in the bay and D: to the boot drive!!

Other weird things happen once booted. I can't connect to the internet even though I have a direct connection. I can't change TCPIP settings as they are greyed out. I've not seen that before! I'm about to try booting just with the new drive and going into diagnostics in the pre-desktop area (F11 at startup) and seeing if anything shows up there. I very much appreciate any thoughts!

Dilip

P.S. I have a complete image backup of the 40GB via Retrospect Express 6.5 .

djThinkbad · #10 Post by **djThinkbad** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:35 pm

Is there a market to get enough $ for the brand new 40GB coming to fund a significant portion of getting a new "official" 80GB? I want to make sure that other than my new 144GB drive, I have IBM drives so that IBM service can service them.

Burn a copy on cd/s Dilip Kumar![/b]

djThinkbad · #11 Post by **djThinkbad** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:35 pm

Is there a market to get enough $ for the brand new 40GB coming to fund a significant portion of getting a new "official" 80GB? I want to make sure that other than my new 144GB drive, I have IBM drives so that IBM service can service them.

Burn a copy on cd/s Dilip Kumar![/b]

sjthinkpader · #12 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:47 pm

If your new drive has the Service Partition, use F11 and rebuild Windows. Then put the old drive in a USB housing and get the data off.

Utilities such as EasyGIG II will put a preboot batch file on both the old and the new drives as well as do a system shutdown to prevent the old and the new drive getting mixed up.

I just finished a A31 to T42 swap and did a 40GB to 80GB upgrade using EasyGIG II all at the same time and it went fine.

A few weeks earlier, I tried drive cloning on a T43 and it didn't work so I had to build XP from scratch on that machine.

dilip · #13 Post by **dilip** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:59 pm

Thanks. My EZ Gig isn't working, but the folks at Apricorn are sending a replacement. That is a good and easy solution.

I wonder if the new drive IBM sends me will have the service partition. If it does, it would be a little surprising to be able to rebuild Windows directly - wouldn't they need the license number or serial number of this particular ThinkPad?

Will EZGig clone then just the data portions? If the new drive has no service partition, can I get EZGig to clone the entire drive?

Finally, is it okay to put my old 40GB drive in the 2nd hard disk adapter? Could that somehow have caused the problem making me have to recreate the new 144GB drive? I would like to do it to facilitate getting data off, but want to make sure that I don't end up with strange problems like I documented above. Thanks!

Dilip

sjthinkpader wrote:If your new drive has the Service Partition, use F11 and rebuild Windows. Then put the old drive in a USB housing and get the data off.

Utilities such as EasyGIG II will put a preboot batch file on both the old and the new drives as well as do a system shutdown to prevent the old and the new drive getting mixed up.

I just finished a A31 to T42 swap and did a 40GB to 80GB upgrade using EasyGIG II all at the same time and it went fine.

A few weeks earlier, I tried drive cloning on a T43 and it didn't work so I had to build XP from scratch on that machine.

sjthinkpader · #14 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:04 pm

djThinkbad wrote:...

Burn a copy on cd/s Dilip Kumar![/b]

A few years back, I had a crash and send the drive to a commercial recovery lab and they sent back a set of CDs. One of the CD in the middle of the stack wouldn't read so I wasted quite a few hours. Finally asked them to send the recovered files on a HDD.

After that, never tried putting a large amount of data on CDs again.

sjthinkpader · #15 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:15 pm

dilip wrote:...

I wonder if the new drive IBM sends me will have the service partition. ...

Last replacement we got was blank.

dilip wrote:..

Will EZGig clone then just the data portions? If the new drive has no service partition, can I get EZGig to clone the entire drive?...

Use the advanced mode and it will allow you to keep the same Service Partition size by adjusting the beginning location downwards then adjust the normal partition ending location downward correspondingly. This gives you a larger usable space.

dilip wrote:..Finally, is it okay to put my old 40GB drive in the 2nd hard disk adapter? ...

When you run the EasyGIG II, it will ask you which drive is the source and which one is the destination. Just don't insert the new drive in the system until you have installed EasyGIG II and ready to run it. Remove the old drive after the copy operation is completed.

I also use this utility for backup too, really a must have for any system. Ghost and Acronis do the same thing.

dilip · #16 Post by **dilip** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:23 pm

Thanks. While I'm waiting on my new EZ Gig system, dare I venture to put my old 40GB WinXP hard disk in the 2nd hard disk adapter of my ThinkPad T42, or could I somehow corrupt my new 144GB drive in the primary position?

Dilip

sjthinkpader wrote:
dilip wrote:...

I wonder if the new drive IBM sends me will have the service partition. ...
Last replacement we got was blank.

dilip wrote:..

Will EZGig clone then just the data portions? If the new drive has no service partition, can I get EZGig to clone the entire drive?...
Use the advanced mode and it will allow you to keep the same Service Partition size by adjusting the beginning location downwards then adjust the normal partition ending location downward correspondingly. This gives you a larger usable space.

dilip wrote:..Finally, is it okay to put my old 40GB drive in the 2nd hard disk adapter? ...
When you run the EasyGIG II, it will ask you which drive is the source and which one is the destination. Just don't insert the new drive in the system until you have installed EasyGIG II and ready to run it. Remove the old drive after the copy operation is completed.

sjthinkpader · #17 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:37 pm

dilip wrote:Thanks. While I'm waiting on my new EZ Gig system, dare I venture to put my old 40GB WinXP hard disk in the 2nd hard disk adapter of my ThinkPad T42, or could I somehow corrupt my new 144GB drive in the primary position?
....

Put it in a USB housing and you will be safe. Personally I would just put it away until I am ready to do the cloning.

My data store is a NAS box with adjustable go-to-sleep timer. Since it is mostly sleeping, never had a crash. But it still has another backup drive.

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