I want a newer thinkpad, recommendations please.

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paul*robertson · #1 Post by **paul*robertson** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:36 pm

Hi,

I love my 600x, the rock solid keyboard,the pointer and the reliability, but would like something newer. What would you recommend but it has to fulfill the following.

1. Rock solid keyboard.
2.Good build quality.
3. Pointer (no touchpads please)
4. And no blue enter key. (sorry, i just dont like the blue key)

Whats the least old thinkpad that fulfills these rquirements.

#2 Post by **gator** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:47 pm

Welcome to the forums! Can you give us a price range so that is easier to help you decide?

paul*robertson · #3 Post by **paul*robertson** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:01 pm

gator wrote:Welcome to the forums! Can you give us a price range so that is easier to help you decide?

Hi,thanks for the welcome. Its great to find some more people that like the thinkpad 600x. Basically i bought it as my first laptop secondhand about three years ago, but over time it is now my only pc. I just love the solidity and as much as i look for something newer i get drawn back to the trackpoint and the solid keyboard. I just wish it was faster with a bit larger hard drive and a newer screen. I'd say my budget is up to £500.

Do all the new thinkpads come with a built in touchpad and blue enter key, and do any have the new style coated screen?

ajkula66 · #4 Post by **ajkula66** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:10 pm

Most of today's ThinkPads apart from some R61i/e models come with touchpads. However, you can disable it in BIOS-that's what I always do.

You'll have a tough time replicating the keyboard feel of 600x with any other machine, you'll need to test out a few...

My recommendations would go along the lines of T42/p or T43/p given the price range that you've quoted, although I'm partially guessing since I'm not that familiar with prices on UK market.

pianowizard · #5 Post by **pianowizard** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:31 pm

ajkula66 wrote:My recommendations would go along the lines of T42/p or T43/p

Unfortunately, the OP doesn't want a Thinkpad with a blue ENTER key.

Does the T30 have a blue ENTER key? If not, that may be the best choice for the OP. I haven't used one but I heard it's very robust, and it's fairly cheap. The T4* has an astoundingly high failure rate and this rate will only increase considering its age. I always handle my T42 ultra gently.

If the OP doesn't mind paying a little over 500 pounds and a blue ENTER key, the T60 would be the best. IMO, it's the only Thinkpad that rivals the 600 series in build quality.

ajkula66 · #6 Post by **ajkula66** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:54 pm

T30 does have a blue enter key...and most of them have a touchpad as well...

But I would second pianowizard's recommendation along these lines...these are nice and sturdy machines...that can be bought cheaply nowadays...

As for the failure rate, if OP has concern over that, I've found the failure rate of T43s to be next to none...unlike its other T4x siblings...

In all honesty, I haven't dealt with enough T6x machines to be able to judge them competently, but my T60p feels like a decently built ThinkPad...

pianowizard · #7 Post by **pianowizard** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:05 pm

ajkula66 wrote:As for the failure rate, if OP has concern over that, I've found the failure rate of T43s to be next to none...unlike its other T4x siblings...

My bad. I was aware of the difference between the T43 versus the earlier T4* and should have been more specific.

paul*robertson · #8 Post by **paul*robertson** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:37 am

What about the T23, that fits the bill, but is it reliable/ good build quaility?

pianowizard · #9 Post by **pianowizard** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:57 am

paul*robertson wrote:What about the T23, that fits the bill, but is it reliable/ good build quaility?

I know many people would disagree with me on this, but all the T2*'s I've used (six of them, including three T23's) felt kind of fragile. Most of those six units had cracks in the chassis. They're nowhere near the quality of the 600 series.

#10 Post by **gator** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:13 am

I have a T23 and I like it a lot ... of course specwise any T4x will beat it, but the T23 is great value for money. It does not have USB 2 and comes with slightly mushy keyboards but it can take 1 GB of RAM (PC133 standard, it is expensive these days) and will do most things a basic T4x can. T23 comes only with trackpoint, touchpads were introduced only from the T30.

As to build quality, I'd say that the T23 and T4x are about even ... infact the T23s are slightly better im my opinion. But you need to remember that the T23s you'll get now are probably 6-7 years old and as you have heard, the T41/T42 are prone to motherboard flexing ... but if you handle your laptop gently and treat it well, either series will serve you VERY well.

Finally everything boils down to your budget, and for £500, you can easily get a good T42.

ajkula66 · #11 Post by **ajkula66** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:10 am

I'm a big fan of T23 machines, and have found them to be pretty much abuse-resistant and trustworthy.

The key for me would be finding an example that hasn't been overly abused, to the point of broken plastic and/or motherboard flex...

We've had many of these at work as "field" laptops, and their survival rate has been far better than one of the ToughBooks of the same generation.

Personally, I've always felt that when measured "pound per pound", T23 has been the best ThinkPad ever...that being just my opinion, obviously...everyone is entitled to differ for his/hers own reasons...

goofyGAguy · #12 Post by **goofyGAguy** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:22 am

ajkula66 wrote:
Personally, I've always felt that when measured "pound per pound", T23 has been the best ThinkPad ever...that being just my opinion, obviously...everyone is entitled to differ for his/hers own reasons...

No argument here.

pianowizard · #13 Post by **pianowizard** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:04 am

ajkula66 wrote:The key for me would be finding an example that hasn't been overly abused, to the point of broken plastic and/or motherboard flex...

One of the T23's I had was near mint, but its bottom chassis still flexed a little bit. And IMO, the ultra thin keyboard bezel of the T2* is a serious design flaw, because it breaks easily. The T60/p (I owned one and have played with two others) doesn't flex at all, and its keyboard bezel is much stronger.

Another reason for not upgrading to a T23 is that it's not that much newer than the OP's 600X -- if he gets a T23, he might have to upgrade again pretty soon. A T30 or T60 would stay useful for longer.

George, I'm not trying to argue with you. I just think the OP should hear both viewpoints.

mattbiernat · #14 Post by **mattbiernat** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:46 am

since I currently have both T23 and T60 let me point out some differences.
- the T60 feels like you would need a hammer to brake it
- the T23 feels a little fragile
- the T60 has blue enter key
- the T23 does not have a blue enter key
- the T60 screen appears to be dimmer than my T23 screen
- the T23 has more bleeding than my T60 screen
- the T60 ram is cheap
- the T23 ram is expensive
- the T60 runs hot and its fan is often on*
- the T23 runs cooler and its fan is not very often on
- the T60 keyboard doesn't have as deep key travel as T23 keyboard
- the T23 keyboard flexes on the left side
- you would need a hammer to flex T60's keyboard
- the T60 has ugly silver buttons and ugly thinkvantage button (by the way who the heck came out with such an ugly name "thinkvantage?")
- the T23 buttons seems more classic and conservative
- the T60 overall feels (aesthetically wise) just like another laptop
- the T23 has very good form factor, feels smaller and you get easily attached to it.
- from what I read T23s are very easy to fix
- the T60 has very cheap touchpad buttons
- the T23 has very sold touchpad buttons
- the T60 trackpoint is very easy to clean
- the T23 trackpoint is hard to clean
* if you get a version of T60 without ATI graphic card it will run noticeably cooler.

ajkula66 · #15 Post by **ajkula66** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:37 pm

mattbiernat, that's an excellent comparison of the machines involved, and a great analysis...

pianowizard, there is no argument to be started. OP has asked for opinions, and it's great that he's getting more than one...I'd never even think that you'd be starting an argument with me...we just happen to have different opinions based on our experiences, that's all. I'm certain that there are members who would disagree with both of us and come up with the third/fourth/zillionth recommendation...

And I always repeat two things:

a) I'm not a trained computer tech, just a ThinkPad buff.
b) Most of my statements are empirical and based on experience only, and are not to be viewed as Holy Book of any kind...

paul*robertson · #16 Post by **paul*robertson** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:10 pm

ajkula66 wrote:mattbiernat, pianowizard, there is no argument to be started. OP has asked for opinions, and it's great that he's getting more than one... Most of my statements are .... based on experience only, ...

And thanks for all the opinoins, lots to think about.........Aren't all the best opinions based on experience..

thanks
Paul.

pianowizard · #17 Post by **pianowizard** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:05 pm

ajkula66 wrote:a) I'm not a trained computer tech, just a ThinkPad buff.
b) Most of my statements are empirical and based on experience only, and are not to be viewed as Holy Book of any kind...

Same here. And thanks for understanding that I was simply offering a second opinion and wasn't trying to argue.

paul*robertson, please let us know what Thinkpad you end up getting. BTW, you said that you don't like touchpads. I started using laptops back in August 2002 and for over two years, I too preferred trackpoints. But in Oct 2004, I accidentally bought a laptop (a Dell Inspiron 700m) that didn't have a trackpoint, so I was forced to learn to use its touchpad. I started to like it more, and now I find that I can maneuver the mouse pointer faster and with higher precision and accuracy with the touchpad. So, I recommend you to give touchpads another try. If you still don't like it, it can be disable easily, so there's no need to avoid Thinkpads that come with one.

cj3209 · #18 Post by **cj3209** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:55 pm

Just wanted to chime in with my two cents. I've used a 600x, T23, T40, T42p, T43p, Z61t, and T60p.

I recommend getting a good used T42 or T43; they can be had for a very reasonable price ever since Lenovo started to become like DELL in it's pricing policies.

Or, better yet, getting the newest notebook that you can afford, whether it be the T30 or T42/T43 or T60. With prices falling for newer notebooks, it makes more sense and you get more bang-for-the-buck with the newest notebook you can afford. IMHO, a good used T60 would be a great buy with prices going for around $600 USD. Why newer? Because RAM is CHEAPER. You can use BIGGER hard drives, easier. USB 2.0 is good.

All the thinkpads have good solid keyboards (some better than others but not by much) and you can always paint the Blue Enter button to whatever color you like (just kidding).

Good luck!

CJ

paul*robertson · #19 Post by **paul*robertson** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:59 am

pianowizard wrote:
ajkula66 wrote:a) paul*robertson, please let us know what Thinkpad you end up getting. BTW, you said that you don't like touchpads. I started using laptops back in August 2002 and for over two years, I too preferred trackpoints. But in Oct 2004, I accidentally bought a laptop (a Dell Inspiron 700m) that didn't have a trackpoint, so I was forced to learn to use its touchpad. I started to like it more, and now I find that I can maneuver the mouse pointer faster and with higher precision and accuracy with the touchpad. So, I recommend you to give touchpads another try. .

Thanks, i'll let you know, although i'm normally a slow mover so dont hold your breath.

thanks for all the advice.

paul*robertson · #20 Post by **paul*robertson** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:18 pm

I bought a new Samsung R60. Not a thinkpad,obviously, but it has some similair characteristics. Decent keyboard, all black, bland and basic. Funny thing is i've had it two weeks yet still use my 600x every day.

paul*robertson · #21 Post by **paul*robertson** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:16 am

Hi,

I've come full circle, sort of. I've had my Samsung nearly 9 months now, and want another thinkpad. The Samsung is used as a desktop replacement, 15 inch screen is too big to sit on my lap (watching tv) so i'm back to using my 600x. I also like the 13 inch screen.
I'm on the lookout for another IBM. (again)

sparta.rising · #22 Post by **sparta.rising** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:54 pm

I don't know why no one mentioned it, but the X series don't have touchpads (except for the X300). At 12" they would be much more portable than your 15" Samsung. X31, X60, X61, X200 are all good notebooks. The X40 and X41 are good, but have some expensive limitations.

basketb · #23 Post by **basketb** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:39 pm

Could it be because the OP said:

4. And no blue enter key. (sorry, i just dont like the blue key)

paul*robertson · #24 Post by **paul*robertson** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:24 pm

basketb wrote:Could it be because the OP said:
4. And no blue enter key. (sorry, i just dont like the blue key)

I think the blue key thing was me being too fussy.

paul*robertson · #25 Post by **paul*robertson** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:28 pm

sparta.rising wrote:I don't know why no one mentioned it, but the X series don't have touchpads (except for the X300). At 12" they would be much more portable than your 15" Samsung. X31, X60, X61, X200 are all good notebooks. The X40 and X41 are good, but have some expensive limitations.

Whats the build quality and keyboard like, and what are the "expensive limitations" you mention.

dr_st · #26 Post by **dr_st** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:51 am

The build quality is very solid across the board. The limitations of the X4x laptops are the slow, low-voltage CPU with no option to upgrade, and very slow 1.8" 4200RPM hard drives (which can be upgraded to very fast SSDs, but for a whoe lot of $$$).

Beaver · #27 Post by **Beaver** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:01 am

Probably best price/value ratio will offer the T43 with 14" LCD. You will have the blue key and touchpad, but touchpad can be disabled and blue key ignored

It's more reliable than T40,T41,T42 and well built.

dr_st · #28 Post by **dr_st** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:02 pm

Beaver wrote:It's more reliable than T40,T41,T42 and well built.

I would prefer a late T42 (Spring 2005), which would be just as reliable as a T43 (due to the same soldering technique being used on the GPU). But it is not always easy to find out when the machine has been manufactured before buying...

fschwep · #29 Post by **fschwep** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:15 am

The suggestion of dr-st to consider an X-series as well as a late-series T42 seems an excellent one. I have both an X31 (through eBay) and a T42 (bought new in 2004, new mobo in 2006).
T42 is not troubled by BIOS error messages when you replace the original harddisk with any 3rd-party 2.5 inch/9,5 mm drive, so you can upgrade easily. The T43 apparently may be a bit of a pain in that respect (see the T4x threads).
A T42 in a minidock is a very good desktop replacement, certainly when maxed out with more RAM and a larger HD.
An X31 or X32 is a very good travel machine, and excellent on your lap due to the 12-inch screen. They have very good, solid keyboards (so do the T42s, btw). In a media slice with a CD/DVD burner inside they are as useful as a desktop as the T42, if you don't mind the smaller screen (they will happily use an external screen though).
The X31 uses the same standard 2.5 inch HD as the T-series, and the same PC 2700 RAM. They are very easy to upgrade; RAM can go up to 2 GB. X32 is essentially the same as a faster spec X31, but with a Dothan CPU (the X31 has a Banias, both are 1.6 GHz Intel Mobile Pentium Ms, but the X32 has more CPU cache).
The X31 usually comes equipped with goodies like good built-in wifi, sometimes even Bluetooth; they all have firewire, infrared, a built-in CF card reader, PCMCIA slot and two USB 2.0 ports. Plus network, sound in/out, modem, parallel and external monitor connectors. For such a small machine an X31 has a plethora of connectivity options.
T42 usually has all that as well, except the firewire and the CF reader (but it has a CD/DVD drive in an Ultrabay Slim fast-swap caddy). The X31 only has a pointer, the T42 has both a pointer and a touchpad. T42 also has a classic serial port, X31 does not.
Both are excellent XP machines and can be had pre-owned for modest sums. Recommended.

madkat · #30 Post by **madkat** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:49 am

IMO you have 2 options...

a T30 - excellent build quality, sturdy, great keyboard, good performance (2.0 model) - downside - expensive RAM, poor battery life, imposible to undervolt the CPU
a T43 14' WITH INTEL GRAPHICS - good build quality, thinner, lighter, looks great, great performance, great keyboard, cheap RAM, good battery life - downside - limited HDD upgrade options (read the topics), noisy fan (although it appears there are solutions)

you can consider even a R51/R52 w/intel graphics - but they are bulky, not-so-good plastics, only one pcmcia - it's a cheaper alternative to the T42/T43 machines with almost the same specs in a not-so-nice package

I want a newer thinkpad, recommendations please.

I want a newer thinkpad, recommendations please.

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