"innocent error could lead to bacteria run amok"

[mattbiernat]

an interesting read, i thought i could post it here.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... ife_2.html

[Trekk69]

Interesting article
Coming from a background in science, I look forward to the next couple of months/years in terms of development of stem cells and genome sequencing

[mattbiernat]

how about the 27 days later?

[iamdmc]

I love human fear. It's so irrational.

Here's the skinny on the facts:
There are currently no zombies.
There never were any zombies.
Zombies are imaginary characters.
Nothing has ever turned into a zombie or zombie-like character in real life in recorded history.
Yes, you can transform very simple unicellular organisms into others by a gradual process, but this is will not happen on the multicellular scale without killing the organism in the process. So, don't worry about turning into a zombie because of some super-virus - you'll turn into a dead version of yourself before you'll turn into a living non-human creature from the depths.

Best case senario: the research is beneficial and will add to whatever small understanding we have of life.
Worse case senario: some people (cough: DARPA) will take this to the extreme, and we'll all be killed as a result of their research.

IMHO

[mattbiernat]

I love human fear.

i wasn't referring to zombies. I was referring to uncontrolled spread of bacterial infections. Think about HIV, it's considered epidemic in some parts of the world. regarding "zombies" there are some viral infections that can severely alter human/animal behavior but i digress....

[ajkula66]

HIV is a virus, not a bacteria...big difference...

And I may sound ignorant, but I'll go to my grave believing that it's human made...

What we have is the fact that thousands of scientists worldwide are playing with genetical structure of this, that and the other thing, and have been for the last 50 years at least.

Let's hope that they still have some conscience left...

Caution is good, fear is counterproductive.

And trusting any government is deadly IMHO.

Until later, my friends...

[mattbiernat]

HIV is a virus, not a bacteria...big difference...

in some sense, no not really... as an epidemic can be both viral and bacterial. i gave an example of HIV because it is most recent, incurable and currently in many parts of the world unstoppable. once infected you have 100% chance of dying unless you get prompt medical treatment within 72 hours, after that you are done. now imagine that we engineer a virus or bacteria to make it so deadly that it could potentially wipe out an entire city within 24 hours. we are entering age when biological weapons could become more deadly than nuclear weapons. I thought that 27 days later was a nice example how quickly an infection can spread. The people don't have to become zombies to spread an infection. Simply take a rabies virus which infects the brain and modifies the behavior of it's victim (subjects becomes extremely aggressive and has increased salivation - sounds familiar to 27 days later). Then decrease its incubation time and consequently increases its virulence. Now you got yourself a weapon of mass destruction. An attack by a deadly virus/bacteria is worst than a nuclear attack. In the latter case at least you have a radius of destruction, in biological attack you don't have one.

[ajkula66]

Well, you had plague and TB that both caused hundreds of thousands, even millions, of deaths in the past centuries, both caused by bacteriae, so I understand your point...but it's possible to find an antidote for bacteria, where it's next to impossible to find one for a virus.

HIV epidemic in Africa really isn't as bad as some organizations would make you believe. Do a little research on the figures that were posted 20 years ago and you'll soon find out that they were way too pessimistic. Don't get me wrong, though-it is a very serious problem.

I'm not downplaying HIV and its deadliness...have lost several very dear friends to it, although, sad as it may be, they were the ones who got themselves into that predicament by making some very stupid choices.

Bacterial warfare is something that no one would dare to unleash, for the simple fact that it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to control...

At the very end of World War II, Germans were toying with the idea of WMD using both bacteriae and virii...but never got further than experimental stage...and someone, somewhere is in possession of these formulas...

But my bottom line is that all of the above is not something one can afford to worry about. Life is way too short for that.

IMHO, one should be cautious with what they eat and drink...because that's something that we can control, at least partially...

[BillMorrow]

HIV is a virus, not a bacteria...big difference...

**MASSIVE SNIPPAGE**
Now you got yourself a weapon of mass destruction. An attack by a deadly virus/bacteria is worst than a nuclear attack. In the latter case at least you have a radius of destruction, in biological attack you don't have one.

the problem with this weapon is it might kill the attacker as well as the attackee..
unless the attacker has an antidote, in which case Commander Bond will come to the rescue..
i hope..

[mattbiernat]

possible to find an antidote for bacteria, where it's next to impossible to find one for a virus.

i disagree. there are many viruses that are easily treatable, most of the time through vaccination. rabies is one of them, currently after infection with rabies if you receive vaccination within reasonable time you have about ~100% chance of survival. mot recent discovery of HPV vaccine is another success.

unless the attacker has an antidote, in which case Commander Bond will come to the rescue..
i hope..

take small pox virus. how many antiviral drugs and vaccinations do we have? how long would it take to mass produce them? and realize that you need to get yourself treatment within 7 days. by the way terrorists don't mid dying.
of course small pox might be hard to come up with, but there are many other tings you can use instead. you can engineer yourself in a small lab a drug resistant ecoli (did that at my school) or multi drug resistant tuberculosis. TB spreads very well and requires long treatment.
i don't mean to spread fear, all I'm saying that we live in an age when rouge governments can cause us harm through means far more dangerous than nuclear weapons.

[ajkula66]

To mattbiernat:

It all depends on one's point of view...I just happen not to trust drug companies...

Maybe you should explore the side effects of rabies vaccine and understand why it's applied very rarely...and while you're at it, you may want to also research the connections between flu vaccine and autism in children...

As for HPV vaccine, I'll admit it was a success twenty years from now when we find out what side effects it has caused in the first generation of users...and that needle is coming nowhere near my daughter even if it means I have to sell everything I have here and move back to Europe...

I have no clue what "rogue governments" you're referring to, but any government would know better than to unleash such an attack...for the simple fear of retalliation from at least of two world's nuclear powers...and I'm not including USA in that count.

As for terrorist not being afraid to die, that is only partially true...I've known people who have dealt first hand with Al-Queda volunteers during the civil war in former Yugoslavia and they would very much beg to differ with you...but this is not the time or the place to discuss such topics, if you're up for it, we can take it offline and continue via email...

As I've said, caution is very good, fear is counterproductive.

[iamdmc]

Bacteria is the plural of bacterium.

Viruses is the plural of virus.

Now that we have that settled... HIV is really not as deadly as people think. Yes, if you have it you will die (as will we all eventually)- but you may life for a decade or more after first being infected.

While the fear of masses of zombie-like ex-humans is still irrational, some good arguments were put forward in this thread. It is not so difficult to take a virulent strain of bacteria and make it more readily transmissible than it would normally be. A vaccine (note: not antidote) could be manufactured eventually, but it would likely kill a fair chunk of people before an effective treatment is found.

While this is true, remember also that humans have been able to do this for quite a few decades now. There have been brief historical examples of them being used (in lab environments) but still nothing widescale.

Time will tell

[mattbiernat]

To mattbiernat:
Maybe you should explore the side effects of rabies vaccine and understand why it's applied very rarely...

i'm very aware of the side effects of the rabies vaccine. you should know that it's applied 100% of the time when somebody gets infected. otherwise you simply die from the infection. anyways it seems like we are arguing in circle and i agree this discussion should end here.

[ajkula66]

iamdmc wrote:

Bacteria is the plural of bacterium.

Viruses is the plural of virus.

Yes, and no.

UK English allows the use of certain Latin words with their appropriate plurals from that language:

Cactus-Cacti also cactii
Bacteria-Bacteriae
Virus-Viri or virii
Fungus-Fungi