Stuck / (Stripped?) Screws In T23 Disassembly

[ArtShapiro]

Well, I've worked myself into a little bit of a mess here.

I'm taking apart a known-bad T23 that I purchased at a bargain rate. It's exhibiting the symptoms of the bad inductor problem.

The HMM indicates that three screws have to be removed to take off the fan. In reality, there are five screws holding the fan down. Three of them came off without incident, I cannot budge the two on the top (hinge) side of the unit. I've tried all my decent Phillips screwdrivers, and if those screws aren't stripped now they're darn close. They're way too tight to tighten a tiny bit, which I know will often break loose a tight screw.

I was hoping to work around the problem, as I have no need to replace the CPU; I'm just trying to extract the motherboard to access the back side. I've done the subsequent disassembly steps including the PC Card slot assembly, speaker, hard disk bay, and ultrabay. So the machine is pretty well stripped down. But something appears to be holding the motherboard firmly to the case in the middle, although I was easily able to remove one screw at the very top (hinge side) of the MB above the fan.

I'm not anxious to Dremel away the head of those screws in hopes that the fan will then come off, but will if I have to.

Any advice out there? Is the fan and CPU covering one screw that holds down the motherboard?

Art

[rkawakami]

Art,

There are only three screws holding the T23 heatsink/fan assembly down on top of the CPU; one near the PS/2 port (and hinge) and two alongside the PCMCIA frame. All are recessed or in the middle of brass-looking "towers". There ARE five other tiny screws which should NOT be removed; three surrounding the actual fan blades, one next to the hinge and the third near the opening of the PCMCIA slots.

There are no screws are under the fan assembly which need to be removed before the motherboard comes out. There are the two that hold the ethernet card (one for the keyboard bezel the other the motherboard) that we talked about earlier but I believe you said those were already removed.

If you have removed everything you listed, then the only thing that's holding the motherboard in is the fan. All three screws go through the motherboard and fasten to the bottom case.

[winslow]

I just replaced thefan on my T23, there were three screws holding it down. One was a little tight but came out with a little patience.

[ArtShapiro]

I was incorrectly removing the "tiny" screws (and they are tiny!).

I hadn't noticed the three screws inside the brass "towers", and they easily came off, whereupon the fan naturally pulled off.

I haven't pulled the CPU (do I have to?). And I've just pulled out the motherboard as I'm typing this. The inductors looked tight, but a tiny bit of pressure on one of them (the one closest to the center) and it popped off in my hand!

Methinks we're on to something here.

Apparently these inductors don't have wire leads in the traditional sense, but our soldered by the metal pieces that wrap around and just slightly under the body of the inductor. This is going to be an interesting solder job, but at least there isn't anything in the immediate area of the solder points on the circuit board.

I'm very grateful for the info.

Art

[Harryc]

Art, you really need to start using the T23 maintenance manual. It would have saved you alot of pain and time. It's very well written and easy to follow.

[ArtShapiro]

Art, you really need to start using the T23 maintenance manual. It would have saved you alot of pain and time. It's very well written and easy to follow.

I was using the HMM! There's no way I'd be able to get that unit apart by just winging it.

I'll offer the opinion that the step in question was not adequately pictured or described. Or perhaps I'm in the rare position of being the poor victim in the old computer adage: Just when you think you've made something idiot-proof, they come along and invent a better idiot.

Art

[Harryc]

I hear you about the picture. I'll check it out sometime, I've taken apart so many T2X machines that while I still do refer to the MIM on occasion, most of it is second nature. Given that, maybe I'm incorrectly assuming it is the 'end-all be-all manual' for the T23. It's still pretty good though. Good luck with your machine.

[rkawakami]

The T2x HMM is reasonably accurate when picturing the removal of the T23 heatsink/fan assembly. The three screws depicted in step 4 are in the correct locations. Be sure that you are not looking at the T20-T22 section since that fan assembly is totally different than the T23.

[ArtShapiro]

The T2x HMM is reasonably accurate when picturing the removal of the T23 heatsink/fan assembly.

Not trying to prolong a thread, but until you (Ray) mentioned that the screws were inside those cylindrical brass "towers", their existence wasn't obvious to me. Therefore I made the logical assumption that the screws were those tiny guys right in front of my face.

One clarification sentence or phrase in the HMM would have eliminated the confusion. After all, when you get right down to it, essentially every screw in sight gets removed by the time the unit is completely torn down.

I have the motherboard here at work in hopes of finding some micro-soldering equipment. Unfortunately I don't have access to our factory floor fifty yards from my office, for whom this operation would be a no-brainer. Otherwise, it will be a trip to Frye's for a finer tip than the stock tip that came with my Hakko soldering station. I used a wire brush in my Dremel to burnish the contact points of the inductor, so it's ready to rumble.

Art

[ArtShapiro]

Well, I've worked myself into a little bit of a mess here.

You're now talking to the happy owner of a functioning T23.

Nary a screw left over!

Thanks for putting up with my babbling, everyone.

Art

[rkawakami]

Hey, congratulations! Are you sure the screws are in the right spots? . One of the first T23s I put back together ended up with a slight bump in the keyboard bezel near the right Trackpoint button. Silly me used the wrong (longer) screw to secure the CMOS battery and ended up almost poking a hole through the bezel . Also, for some reason I keep forgetting to re-install the keyboard CRU. You know, that black plastic film which sits around the keyboard connector on the motherboard. I can't begin to tell you how many times I buttoned up a T23 only to find that thing sitting on my desk .

[ArtShapiro]

Hey, congratulations! Are you sure the screws are in the right spots?

Well, I can't be absolutely sure, but I tried to group the various piles on a piece of paper labeled with the HMM topic number, and when there was any doubt I tried pretty hard to put the screws on a piece of adhesive tape in approximately the right configuration to mimic reality. So far the house hasn't burned down.

This was all fairly adventurous for a software engineer! We're only supposed to know how to cycle the power switch when something goes wrong.

Art

[marditti]

This is a general note relative to the IBM screws.
IBM is using screws with some sort of ‘locking’ material on the threads. This is probably similar to the common Locktite.
With time, these screws are very hard to remove. One way to solve this problem is heat. In the T2x series with limited space, an effective way to apply local heat to a specific screw is to use a soldering iron with a pointed tip. Apply heat to the center of the screw head for 15 – 30 seconds (not much longer). While the screw is still hot, it can be removed much easier.
This method has worked for me on numerous occasions on various screw sizes.
On larger screw, it may take a bit longer to heat the screw.
I hope this helps.

[joester]

My maintenance tip...
When dealing with several screw sizes (like removing a motherboard) I take a picture of the whole assembly, print it out, then tape the screw to the picture over the place it came from. I find it keeps things in order pretty well, and I have a picture of the assembly to use for reference during assembly.

Good tip for those finding themselves opening up something for which they have no HMM.

The above tip using heat to soften the threadlocker is a good one. Just remember to look at the securing and surrounding medium. Plastics aren't so cooperative with heat... I learned the hard way.

Joe