Was I ripped off? What should I do

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scosgt1 · #31 Post by **scosgt1** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:32 pm

ajkula66 wrote:scosgt1 wrote:

I have done hundreds, in fact probably thousands of deals. I ALWAYS ship over the counter, so I have proof that I actually shipped the item. I also ALWAYS send the buyer the tracking info as soon as I fill out the Sig Con label.

Communication is the key to good transactions.
Ditto here. Additionally, I've just remembered one thing: there is NO delivery confirmation on Global Priority Mail packages, to Canada or anyplace else for that fact. The only way you can sometimes track the package is through the customs form serial number, but that doesn't always work.

Escalate your dispute to a PayPal claim NOW.

I shipped a package to Canada last year, and I made the buyer send me a statement that as long as I could show acceptance at the Post Office he could not make a non-delivery claim. I also sent him an Express Mail package, for a fact that one did track all the way.

ahammad · #32 Post by **ahammad** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:52 pm

smidgley wrote:You should be concerned. I bought the same T40 from this guy and guess what? Same story, a shipping label was created but the USPS has no record of it being in their possession. It was supposed to be shipped Priority Mail, which would have been delivered here on Jan. 28, nearly two weeks ago.

He did reply to one email, though.

I have have charge-back pending with my credit card company.

Was it the same shipping number too? The one I got is CJ163039178US . Did you ask for additional pics as well? When did you make a payment to him? Please let me know when you can.

When I escalate this to a claim, I'll have this whole thread as a reference for PayPal to take a look at. If you guys have any more information please post it here. I'm going to try to compile all information and correspondence between me and him before I escalate it to a dispute.

Thanks guys, hopefully something good can come out of it.

#33 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:24 pm

I print my postage for eBay packages using PayPal.
All my items go out USPS Priority Mail.
You immediately receive a tracking number for USPS, but it does not get activated until you drop it off at your local Post Office.
The lady in Hamlin, PA 18427 who works at the PO there, always scans it in and by the time I get home, I can almost see it immediately or shortly after.
I always have myself emailed whatever is available from USPS tracking (it's free) to proof that items were shipped AND delivered!

But this thread seems to deal with a not-so-honest person, unfortunately.
PayPal claim AND chargeback on your credit card are in order ASAP.

ahammad · #34 Post by **ahammad** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:52 pm

I'm going to wait for smidgley's response and wait for the other person that dealt with him to reply (on whether or not he has any info) before I escalate it.

smidgley: can you post or pm me the email address that you made your payment to?

Thanks

ajkula66 · #35 Post by **ajkula66** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:22 pm

I certainly hope that your PayPal payment was made from your credit card, and not your bank account or PayPal balance, so you can file a chargeback. If not, there is a good chance of you never seeing that money again...

Don't wait any longer, escalate NOW. You can always cancel the claim if the seller or machine show up. And, if seller doesn't respond within 10 days, the claim will automatically be decided in your favour. No need for extra documentation, or presenting the case to PayPal-you're not in court. Just do it.

I may not like PayPal, but I DO know how it works (and that's why I don't like it, but that's not the topic of this thread), and am speaking from my own experience and with the best of intentions...

Good luck.

ahammad · #36 Post by **ahammad** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:36 am

So I escalated it to a dispute, but PayPal says "Seller provided proof of shipping" right after I made it a dispute. Is this a reference to the old tracking number that the seller gave me at the very beginning, or does that mean that the seller logged in and gave it to them again?

#37 Post by **Harryc** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:44 am

Ask to see the proof of shipping. Tell them you don't have it.

pianowizard · #38 Post by **pianowizard** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:21 am

ahammad wrote:So I escalated it to a dispute, but PayPal says "Seller provided proof of shipping" right after I made it a dispute.

Okay, so we now know the seller is still alive and has ready access to the internet. He is intentionallly not responding to your emails. It's not looking good at all.

Did you pay from your bank account or with a credit card? If it was the latter, I agree with ajkula66 that you should file a chargeback with your credit card company. PayPal usually doesn't want to help.

scosgt1 · #39 Post by **scosgt1** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:39 am

ahammad wrote:So I escalated it to a dispute, but PayPal says "Seller provided proof of shipping" right after I made it a dispute. Is this a reference to the old tracking number that the seller gave me at the very beginning, or does that mean that the seller logged in and gave it to them again?

It is probably the original tracking number that was obtained thru PayPal shipping, and it is NOT proof of anything.

You need to call PayPal on the phone, the number is available on the site.

ahammad · #40 Post by **ahammad** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:09 pm

Thanks guys for all the suggestions.

Unfortunately I did not use my credit card at that time because I was close to my credit limit, so now I can't even do a chargeback. :/

I called PayPal, they cannot give me any information on the guy or the transaction from the seller's point of view because of "privacy laws". All I can do is wait apparently.

I asked to speak to manager but he too is bound by some laws. So to sum up, I can't do a chargeback, and PayPal can't do much at the moment. The only thing that I can do is wait.

Any of you have dealt with this sort of thing before? Is there anything that can be done to increase the chances of me getting my money back or am I in a pickle?

Now what?

Thanks.

ajkula66 · #41 Post by **ajkula66** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:31 pm

OK, let's see a couple of things here...

What exactly has PayPal rep/manager/whoever told you in the respect of fake shipping confirmation? Have you brought this up at all?

How did you pay for this? PayPal balance or checking account?

What's the status of your claim right now? Is it at the claim phase or you're still in dispute?

Let us know.

Good luck.

ahammad · #42 Post by **ahammad** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:43 pm

ajkula66 wrote:OK, let's see a couple of things here...

What exactly has PayPal rep/manager/whoever told you in the respect of fake shipping confirmation? Have you brought this up at all?

How did you pay for this? PayPal balance or checking account?

What's the status of your claim right now? Is it at the claim phase or you're still in dispute?

Let us know.

Good luck.

All that the PayPal rep said was that they "will look into it" when the dispute is active. That will be three days from when the claim was escalated to a dispute, which is in 2 days. He did check the shipment and agreed that the number doesn't give any information or a proof that the item was sent out.

I paid from the cheqing account. Is that better or worst?

Right now, it is a claim, and it will be a dispute in 2 days.

ajkula66 · #43 Post by **ajkula66** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:47 pm

That's BS. There's no reason for them not to escalate it into a claim. They are wasting your time. Call back, be stern and get this escalated NOW or they won't have to do absolutely anything for you!!!! There is no "3 day provision" in the dispute agreement...

No time to be a nice guy...not now.

ahammad · #44 Post by **ahammad** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:39 pm

ajkula66 wrote:That's BS. There's no reason for them not to escalate it into a claim. They are wasting your time. Call back, be stern and get this escalated NOW or they won't have to do absolutely anything for you!!!! There is no "3 day provision" in the dispute agreement...

No time to be a nice guy...not now.

They're closed now, but I'll call tomorrow and ask to speak to the person in charge right away. I'm going to explain my situation and make it clear that my issue needs to be resolved. I'll also mention that somebody else might of gotten ripped off as well for the exact same purchase.

Do you have any other tips? Frankly I don't feel like waiting for a long time for something that is clearly a dishonest transaction.

Cheers

scosgt1 · #45 Post by **scosgt1** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:53 pm

I am getting a bit confused by all this.

PayPal does not escalate, YOU DO.

All you do is escalate to a claim for non-delivery. In the comments, you put down that you received a FAKE tracking number that does not indicate mailing, and that another individual bought the same actual system from this individual and also has a pending PayPal claim. Include the PayPal user ID or email address of that person if possible.

That's IT. They will "investigate", and issue a ruling.

Under the TOS, they must find that there is non-delivery, since there is no proof of delivery OR valid tracking to indicate acceptance by the Post Office. You will get a refund of up to probably $200, since that is the default limit for most transactions off Ebay.

I don't understand the rest of this dialogue. The item was never shipped, end of story. Just make your dispute into a claim.

scosgt1 · #46 Post by **scosgt1** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:01 pm

And I have ANOTHER Ebay issue at this time that bears discussion:

I listed a watch on Ebay. I clearly stated US ONLY, and also used the filter to block non-US bidders.

Now without starting a debate over shipping out of the US (that is NOT the point here, I have a right under Ebay TOS to limit sales to US users only) a guy from South America won the auction. When I got the winning bidder email from Ebay, it showed an address in Uruguay. Apparently this guy used to be in the US, and he kept the Ebay registration which shows US and gets him around the filters.

So I emailed him right away and told him his bid is null and void, as I specified US ONLY. I called Ebay right away and was advised NOT to honor his bid, and I got a case number! He INSISTED on me shipping to a third party in the US. I refused and sold the watch on a second chance offer to the next bidder, on the advice of Ebay.

So this guy does a non-selling seller on me, and I do a non-paying bidder on him an get back the sales commission.

He gives me a NEGATIVE FEEDBACK. I am now trying to get Ebay to take that off. HE broke the rules by bidding, ebay TOLD ME not to honor his bid, and yet I get a negative. Some world we live in.

ajkula66 · #47 Post by **ajkula66** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:55 pm

I hope I'm wrong but this is how I'm reading this...

PayPal knows that the seller in question scammed at least one other party (smidgley) since he has a chargeback pending, and they know that they'll have to refund his purchase, since the CC company will simply pull the funds back, end of story.

You, on the other hand, have paid by liquid funds and have no way of going against them (PayPal) if they drag your case long enough and eventually tell you that they can't refund you the money, since there are no available funds in the seller's account.

A day lost is a week lost here. And it's not looking good for you.

Going to the cops and filing a mail fraud charge would also be a good idea.

But scosgt1 is right when he says that it's not PayPal who escalates the dispute to a claim, but yourself. When escalating, you have an option stating something like "I have reason to believe that seller is fraudulent" so use that to escalate it online.

Good luck and keep us informed.

ahammad · #48 Post by **ahammad** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:19 pm

ajkula66 wrote:I hope I'm wrong but this is how I'm reading this...

PayPal knows that the seller in question scammed at least one other party (smidgley) since he has a chargeback pending, and they know that they'll have to refund his purchase, since the CC company will simply pull the funds back, end of story.

You, on the other hand, have paid by liquid funds and have no way of going against them (PayPal) if they drag your case long enough and eventually tell you that they can't refund you the money, since there are no available funds in the seller's account.

A day lost is a week lost here. And it's not looking good for you.

Going to the cops and filing a mail fraud charge would also be a good idea.

But scosgt1 is right when he says that it's not PayPal who escalates the dispute to a claim, but yourself. When escalating, you have an option stating something like "I have reason to believe that seller is fraudulent" so use that to escalate it online.

Good luck and keep us informed.

I know that, I did escalate it, but PayPal requires 3 business days before beginning the investigation or some other BS like that. I'm going to bug them everyday until I get what I want. I asked them to freeze the user's account for the time being but they said that they couldn't. I'll try again tomorrow.

scosgt1 · #49 Post by **scosgt1** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:22 pm

Actually, the amount of the transaction is automatically frozen as soon as you made the dispute. So even if there is nothing there, he can not sell anything and access the funds up to that amount.

ajkula66 · #50 Post by **ajkula66** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:24 pm

ahammad wrote:

PayPal requires 3 business days before beginning the investigation or some other BS like that.

I've had numerous disputes through them and have never heard of anything like that. Time to call your lawyer, amongst other people.

ahammad · #51 Post by **ahammad** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:12 pm

ajkula66 wrote:ahammad wrote:

PayPal requires 3 business days before beginning the investigation or some other BS like that.
I've had numerous disputes through them and have never heard of anything like that. Time to call your lawyer, amongst other people.

I think it might be because there is a tracking number:

"If you choose not to cancel this claim, we will resume our investigation
after 3 business days. We will make every effort to resolve this claim
within 30 days although we may require additional time to complete our
investigation."

I already told them that I'm not cancelling anything and to go through with the dispute but no go. I think that another phonecall tomorrow morning is in order.

kosse · #52 Post by **kosse** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:49 am

ajkula66 wrote: Going to the cops and filing a mail fraud charge would also be a good idea.

Does anybody know how this happens if you are outside US? Can a report of an offence be made in another country and does the US police usually have time to investigate stuff like this? I'm guessing "no" to both questions but I thought to ask anyway..

ajkula66 · #53 Post by **ajkula66** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:55 am

Well, I agree that Canadian police has better stuff to do, but reporting the fraud doesn't hurt. Also, if smidgley filed one on this side of the border, that would probably help the matters...I'm not an expert on the issue and am speaking off the top of my head while getting ready for bed, so feel free to correct me...

smidgley · #54 Post by **smidgley** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:34 pm

I'll do what I can but I don't know how far I'll be able to go with only an email address to file a complaint against.

I've been in contact with the post office to see if I could get the name and address of the sender and they say they don't keep records of who ships what but if I give them the name and address of the sender, they will look into it.

Makes sense to me.

ajkula66 · #55 Post by **ajkula66** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:32 pm

Well, your PayPal receipt will give you the name of business or individual that you've sent the money to, and that's a start.

I'm also pretty certain that they have to release information to cops once the fraud is suspected and the claim has been filed.

ahammad · #56 Post by **ahammad** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:53 am

I don't think filing a complaint will be taken too seriously here.

PayPal's investigation should open today...that's a start at least. Hopefully everything goes smoothly.

smidgley · #57 Post by **smidgley** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:55 am

Bad news, I'm afraid. PayPal denied my claim.

pianowizard · #58 Post by **pianowizard** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:14 pm

smidgley wrote:PayPal denied my claim.

What was their reason? Was it the fact that the seller printed a shipping label?

smidgley · #59 Post by **smidgley** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:22 pm

They don't give a reason on the website.

All it says is:
"We have completed our investigation of this case. We have denied this claim and a refund will not be issued."

I guess the fact that he created the label is good enough for them. I do still have a chargeback pending with my credit card company, though.

The chargeback may be the reason they denied the claim, thinking about it. I have a phone number for their resolution center, if I get some time I'll call and find out.

ahammad · #60 Post by **ahammad** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:54 pm

At least you can file a chargeback...I think I'm screwed. I have to call them as soon as possible (in 2 hours minimum :S).

Was I ripped off? What should I do

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