X60 vs X61, and what is wrong with this auction?

[j-dawg]

I want to buy an X-series tablet soon, which I will use through college. I have to decide between X60 and X61; X60 is usually a little cheaper, but the differences seem pretty minor.

I occasionally play video games, and while I'm not expecting anything spectacular graphics-wise, I would like to be able to at least play games of, say, Half-Life 2 vintage (and I an aware of the problems with autosaving, that particular game, and the 945 chipset).

I would also like to be able to use Vista, preferably with the Aero interface, as I believe it will inevitably become more or less necessary over the next five years to do so.

I bring these two points up because the X61 has the Intel X3100 graphics chipset and the X60 has the Intel 945GM. I doubt is the Santa Rosa processor in the X61 would garner too great an improvement, but does anyone have experience with games and Vista on an X60 vs an X61?

Now, with all that out of the way, the reason I raise this question now is because of this. Ridiculously cheap X60 Tablets with the basic configuration I'd want, notably the touchscreen, Intel wireless, an optical drive of some sort (dock isn't that important to me, so I don't really care what form it is), 8-cell battery, and, according to the serial number provided and IBM's website, three years of Lenovo onsite warranty starting this month, which is pretty [censored] nice and something I've been worried about. It's cheap enough that I'd upgrade the hard drive, RAM, and OS and add Bluetooth myself. And it's even in Chicago, so I could potentially pick it up and save the $50 shipping. I would wait a few more months for prices to drop even further but given the slow depreciation on X41Ts and the features this one offers, I feel like I should jump on it while I can.

But something's got to be wrong with it. It seems too good to be true: though I haven't got much experience buying computers on the 'Bay, this guy's got a 99+% feedback and that IBM site verifying the warranty really gave me a jolt.

So, in summary, X60 Tablet vs X61 Tablet for what I want to do? And is this deal legit or is there something I should be looking out for?

[Crunch]

The seller is a Powerseller for one, has excellent feedback, and a lot of it. I don't see the price as being too good to be true. The warranty checks out, too. I think you'll be fine. I usually get all my Thinkpads from ebay, too, and this one looks like a totally safe bet.

[ducky2802]

its about the right price considering its a non mt+mv or svga screen, but its a pretty good price at that. In any case, I read thatbluetooth is that not easy to upgrade on the x60 tablet... there is a discussion on this somewhere in the forum, which is a deal breaker for me!

I just picked up an x61 tablet, no particular reason over the x60 tablet though since I really dont need santa rosa, but vista seems to perform pretty well. I get a 3.4 using the x3100, and while I dont have the numbers for the 945 chipset, I believe it is a digit lower (~2.x).

[j-dawg]

I thought it was an MV+MT screen. It says "touch panel" in the parts description, and the seller also describes it as a touch screen.

Still, I'm getting more and more hesitant about this. Though it's unlikely that I'll find another tablet with such a nice warranty at that price in the near future, I'm leaning more and more towards waiting to see if X61 prices drop soon. I also think I may want the SXGA+ screen more than the multitouch screen. Bluetooth isn't really a big deal for me, just a nice thing to have, but the other factors are enough that I am now a little uncertain.

Also, I've heard reports that in terms of actual performance, the GMA950 sometimes outdoes the X3100, especially from Mac owners. Is there any truth to these claims, or is it a Mac issue, or is it just their paranoia? It seems unlikely at best.

[ducky2802]

hmmm... concerning the graphics, I browsed through the internet and did see quite a few posts on leopard being better on the 950. I have noticed that the vista "bubbles" screen saver a bit slow, but concerning games, I dont know how best to measure the graphics capabilities. If anything, I do often hear the x3100 provides good graphics.

The standard screen on the tablets is a XGA display that works with the pen only.... the MT and MV (responds to your finger and pen), must say MT and MV in the add someplace, as it generally is a bit higher in price. Or at the very least, I would ask to confirm that it does have MT+MV, but it looks to me like its just XGA. The SXGA+ is a nice screen.... a little small, but very useable for me... and from what Ive read on here, its an IPS display as well. I think the x61 standard xga screen is some type of wide viewing angle too, but Im not sure on the x60. But the SXGA+ is the one that suffers the most from the bezel separation (though with the 3 year warranty, youre covered).

In any event, I think the new x61 is a welcome improvement, though for most purposes, I think the X60 is just as capable while sacrificing little, if any performance.

[XIII]

I doubt if you can ever play game on X series. Integrated graphics is no where bear as good as their dedicated graphics counterpart.
Buy a T61 and T61p if you want to play game, X series is usually for travel only.

[j-dawg]

Well, having read about at least one X60 Tablet achieving a 3.1 on the Microsoft Number of Great Significance (spec'd much lower than I plan, though it's the graphics that hold it back) and having asked the seller (and gotten confirmation) that the warranty is through Lenovo and that I can pick it up to save shipping costs, I am swaying back towards this computer. I realized that the GMA950 and the X3100 aren't far enough apart performance-wise to justify dropping hundreds more dollars on an X61, especially considering that I have a desktop more suited to gaming and that I couldn't play many newer games on either chipset.

The only thing that remains to be clarified is if the screen is at least the Multitouch screen; if it's not, I'll just wait and hope prices drop. But the seller ignored this question last time I posed it, which leaves me doubtful.

[qviri]

I doubt if you can ever play game on X series. Integrated graphics is no where bear as good as their dedicated graphics counterpart.
Buy a T61 and T61p if you want to play game, X series is usually for travel only.

Bollocks. I was playing games on the VIA integrated graphics in my cheap socket A computer. It all depends what games you're interested in. Anything pre-2006 is definitely fair game for X61, for newer stuff you may have to turn down the settings.

In particular, HL2 needs a DirectX 7 graphics card. The X60's GMA950 has DX9, and X61's X3100 has DX10.

[ducky2802]

I stand somewhat corrected. I just looked up the computer config on lenovo site for type 6364CC3 and came up with a NON-MT+MV screen, standard XGA, BUT the xga display does have the super wide viewing angles like the SXGA+ and MT+MV ones, which is a nice feature. In any case, tabook lists for type 6363 and 6366 (no 6364 though, but I imagine specs are similar) with the XGA having 185nit brightness too. Both the XGA and the SXGA+ screen have full wacom abilities with the included digitizer pen for writing on the screen, and seem mostly identical sans the obvious resolution differences.

And for comparison, I could run (though a bit slowly) solidworks 2007 premium edition on a 8mb standard graphics X24, though I know new games stress the gpu much more.

[alexander_s]

I was looking for my 1st tablet and looked onto the Lenovo Outlet where there was an x60T for $956. Seemed "too good to be true" so I bookmarked the page and looked back several days later only to find that the price had dropped to $851! The model number is 6364CC3 and it looks like one of the "campus/student" special builds. It came with a 1GB stick of RAM and, much to my surprise, a Lenovo CDR/DVD (which was not listed on the ad) as well as a 65W and 90W AC adapter. The 3 year warranty is 'on-site', too. The machine was new and shipped from Lenovo China with 'free ground shipping' which turned out to be UPS air. You may be able to find a similar deal by trolling the outlet, but it seems to be a matter of luck as much as of perseverance.

Product Description Price Qty Total

6364CC3 1.67GHZ 1GB 80GB XPT 851.00 1 851.00
Shipping & Handling: 0.00
Tax: 70.21
Total: 921.21
Payment method: #####


Some orders are shipped from multiple locations. If shipping charges
are applicable, you will only be billed for a single shipping charge.
===================================================

[XIII]

I doubt if you can ever play game on X series. Integrated graphics is no where bear as good as their dedicated graphics counterpart.
Buy a T61 and T61p if you want to play game, X series is usually for travel only.

Bollocks. I was playing games on the VIA integrated graphics in my cheap socket A computer. It all depends what games you're interested in. Anything pre-2006 is definitely fair game for X61, for newer stuff you may have to turn down the settings.

In particular, HL2 needs a DirectX 7 graphics card. The X60's GMA950 has DX9, and X61's X3100 has DX10.

There is a big difference between playable and being able to play certain games. Theoretically, all cards satisfying certain hardware requirement such as DirectX 9, SM 3.0 can play virtually any game listed those as requirement. However, you will have to turn them down to very low detail and horrendous resolution that make the game unplayable.

Before trolling further, try playing Call of Duty 4 or any DirectX 9 and DirectX 10 games on any X machine with acceptable quality and then rethink your noobish comment.

[Jackboot]

alexander: that is an insane deal - good for you!

[j-dawg]

The response was that there was no touch screen, so I decided to let it pass. Immediately before giving up on this particular offer, I took a look at the other X60Ts and realized that, aside from the warranty, the price wasn't all that great--I just hadn't been keeping up with the market. The seller also had a no-returns policy, which kind of eliminated half the advantage of having him right nearby.

Hopefully the X60 and X61 will both be cheaper in a few months; given that it's not as great an offer as I thought (excitable as I am), I'm going to let this one pass.

[alexander_s]

You COULD play some games or do complex visual/graphics stuff on a 12 inch tablet but I'm not sure that would be the best application for this hardware. I'd probably look at a T6x with discrete graphics if that were the case. The overall dimensions will not be much greater than a modern tablet, nor should the price be that much different. I bought a tablet since i want to try the data entry into a document processor and it is similar to my usual 'make notes on paper' work style. I've been following the prices of x60T and x61T a while and even $1000 is pretty good with a 3 year on-site warranty, which Lenovo usually charges $150-200 more over the now-standard 1 year. As members have stated in the past, the best time to buy any computer is when you need the machine and the price is decent, since prices will continue to fall and hardware continue to improve.

[qviri]

There is a big difference between playable and being able to play certain games. Theoretically, all cards satisfying certain hardware requirement such as DirectX 9, SM 3.0 can play virtually any game listed those as requirement. However, you will have to turn them down to very low detail and horrendous resolution that make the game unplayable.

Well, X series' resolution is pretty low to start with.

Before trolling further, try playing Call of Duty 4 or any DirectX 9 and DirectX 10 games on any X machine with acceptable quality and then rethink your noobish comment.

The original poster stated that he would like to play games like HL2. CoD4 was released almost exactly three years after HL2. I don't see what is noobish about saying pre-2006 games will be fine.

Not everyone needs the latest graphics card and a $1500 computer to enjoy a game.

[gunston]

Good deal, go ahead.

[j-dawg]

You COULD play some games or do complex visual/graphics stuff on a 12 inch tablet but I'm not sure that would be the best application for this hardware. I'd probably look at a T6x with discrete graphics if that were the case.

That's why I figured X60 vs X61 wasn't really a concern for me. Yes, I might be able to play a few very slightly newer games with an X61, but I wouldn't be able to play any new games on either, and if I wanted to do so I have a quite capable desktop at home for that.

A quick game of Counter-Strike or GTA2 is doable on my X24 with no problems, so I don't foresee an X60 or X61 having any greater difficulty. For me, portability, durability, and functionality trump gaming ability, especially considering that I don't play games all that often anymore. If I really wanted greater gaming capabilities in a laptop, I would probably look outside of the Thinkpad line.