T20 slow: Is it low mem, processor clock speed, BIOS, XP?

Message

paramount · #1 Post by **paramount** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:43 am

I bought a T20 2647-44U that works, but it's extremely slow---painfully slow. It has 256 MB RAM. Previous owner had run with Windows 2000 with no problems. Before selling to me, he did a fresh install of XP home SP2 from a non-IBM/Lenovo system disk. Bios apparently set to 1.19 after battery issues following BIOS upgrade. (How do you check the BIOS version?) It appears to have 8 MB of graphics RAM.

The computer works ok for editing MSWord documents, but it is extremely slow doing anything else. The processor, an 800 MHz PIII, shows up as "179 MHz" when I view the hardware profile in Windows. The video is very choppy when trying to view DVDs or even when trying to run very simple animations.

What do I need to do to get decent performance? When things get really slow (starting a second program) it seems to be running at 100% CPU usage, and memory usage is not maxed out. To me the behavior seems like a lack of processor power and not a lack of memory. The "179 MHz" seems fishy to me--do I need to do something to get the full processor power recognized? Could this be related to the BIOS issues encountered by the previous user? Is it related to SpeedStep? Or is this just a problem with XP and not enough memory? IS Win2000 that much less demanding? I have worked with XP on a non-Thinkpad laptop that had only 256 MB of memory and it worked much better than this. Thanks for any help you can provide.

#2 Post by **rkawakami** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:15 am

Welcome to thinkpads.com!

Your 44U should be a 700Mhz system. At least that's what was in the system as it shipped from the factory. That Windows is reporting "179Mhz" is very strange. I would download MobileMeter from here:

http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/Sys ... eter.shtml

and run it to see what it reports. SpeedStep will slow down a 700Mhz CPU to 550Mhz I believe. Your amount of system memory should not affect your speed as far as I know, but Windows XP will be happier with at least 512MB. I would guess that if the OS install did not place the proper drivers onto the system then that might lead to this problem. You might also want to check your Power Manager settings. Right-click the desktop, select Properties, then click on the Screen Saver tab, then the Power button. In the Power Schemes dropdown box, change to High System Performance and see if that makes any difference.

You can check your BIOS version and see what it reports as the processor speed by accessing the BIOS screen. To do that, press and hold the F1 key while powering up the system and continue to hold it until the IBM splash screen goes away. The system information should then appear. Report back here with the BIOS version, both the 1.xx number and the IYETxxxx string.

edit: While you are looking at the BIOS information, select the Config menu and poke around the various sub-menus. You can select items using the up/down arrow keys to move around and press the Enter key to select the highlighted item. Does that also seem to take some time? Is there a slight delay between the time you press the arrow key and it actually moves?

phool@round · #3 Post by **phool@round** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:18 am

Product: ThinkPad T20 2647-44U [change]
Operating system: All [change]

Original description: PIII 700MHz, (256KB), 128MB RAM, 12.0GB HDD, 14.1 XGA(1024x768) TFT LCD, 6X-2.3X DVD, Intel Mini PCI Combo card, TV out, Li-Ion battery, Win98

First, To check which BIOS version simply press "F1" at the "Thinkpad" screen when you first boot up and that will bring you to the main BIOS page where your BIOS version will be displayed in all it's glory. There is a Lenovo application called " Configuration Utility" that will tell you what version you have as well, but first things first.......

Second, Running XP Home with 256M of RAM will be slow with lots of Hard Drive caching - further slowing down the system and causing you to wait for inputs to appear. It can't multi-task very well with that amount of RAM.

Third, One way to trim down the eye candy is simply by right clicking on your open desktop background which brings up the "Display Properties" window. Click on the "Appearance" tab and where it says "Windows and buttons:" click the drop down box where it says, "Windows XP style" and choose "Windows Classic style".

Fourth, Another method is to click on the "Themes" tab and where it says "Theme:" click the drop down and choose "Windows Classic".

Fifth, Yet another way with even more control over what you want and don't want is to open Control Panel -> System -> Advanced and where it says, "Performance" choose the button that says, "Settings" and it will bring up the "Visual Effects" tab. There you can choose what you want and don't want.

The more eye candy you have the choppier the screen refresh will be. Less is better. You want a lean system.

Sixth, Here is a link to IBM apps;
here. Get familiar with the site, you'll use it often. You should bookmark it until your satisfied your system is running "better" than it is now. Ask as many questions as you want, that's what we are here for......

Good luck with the overload I've given you to start with.

Ray, you beat me to it again!!!! Incredible.....!

paramount · #4 Post by **paramount** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:31 am

Thanks to the two of you for your quick help. Here's the info from the BIOS screen:

BIOS version 1.19 (IYET58WW)
BIOS date 1999-12-21
Embedded Controller Version 1.05
CPU Type PIII (SpeedStep)
CPU Speed 700 MHz
Installed Memory 256 MB

In the BIOS menus, I was able to navigate without significant delay when using the arrow keys. There might be a very slight delay but it isn't bothersome. The power settings are set to "full performance." I was already using the "Windows Classic" appearance scheme, and in the System/advanced/visual effects control panel tab I had chosen "adjust for best performance" already, which unchecks all the boxes. I had also played around with the virtual memory settings and have a total paging file size of 483 MB. Does this matter? The changes I made from the default did not seem to affect the performance when I made them.

Following your advice, I switched to the "Windows Classic" theme and that does seem to speed things up a bit, maybe.

But it still seems quite slow. Would 512 MB of RAM really make that much difference? In the other XP laptop I'm used to using, going from 256 to 1278 made a difference but it wasn't huge. Why doesn't the system recognize the 700 MHz processor speed, and could that be part of my problem?

Thanks again.

#5 Post by **jdhurst** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:45 am

I have some client T30's that have had the memory slot problem. When the 256Mb slot dies, leaving only 256Mb for XP SP2, the system nearly dies. So, yes, 512Mb is the minimum for SP2 for any machine, and should make a difference for you. ... JDH

phool@round · #6 Post by **phool@round** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:27 am

Virtual Memory setting should be much higher, give it a range of 256-1024. This will give it enough room on the Hard Drive to expand when needed.

Look at the "driver matrix" at Lenovo. I would download all of them marked for XP. Power manager, the supplemental files, ACPI, etc. One of them will get the Speedstep working (or reporting) correctly in XP. Update your BIOS and embedded controller, it's pre XP with a 1999 date. These suggestions (even out of order) should get your system in better shape even with 256M.

paramount · #7 Post by **paramount** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:56 am

The previous owner had a problem with recognition of the battery when he updated the BIOS and embedded controller (whatever that is), so he downgraded to 1.19. How do I avoid this problem when I upgrade the BIOS? Thanks.

phool@round · #8 Post by **phool@round** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:03 pm

The only way would be to buy a new(er) battery. I've seen several posts about this problem. No work-arounds yet.......besides downgrading the BIOS. That version is way too old though. I'd think it could be brought up to just under the new version.

ArtShapiro · #9 Post by **ArtShapiro** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:27 pm

I recently went through the same gyrations on a "new" T23, and posted here ("T23 Upgrade Fubar..." topic). Newer Bioses require a newer embedded controller, and I believe you're at the limit of each piece of software for dealing with non-IBM batteries.

As was suggested, I'd carefully go through the T20 Driver matrix and install or reinstall every "reasonable" item.

And running the T20 on anything less than its limit of a half gig (which sure seemed nice at the time!) is folly. A 256Meg PC100 stick of memory, assuming you're not running 2x128 already, would be easily obtainable; I'm not the only one here who probably has it gathering dust in a drawer.

Art

MintyMadness · #10 Post by **MintyMadness** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:00 pm

ArtShapiro wrote:I recently went through the same gyrations on a "new" T23, and posted here ("T23 Upgrade Fubar..." topic). Newer Bioses require a newer embedded controller, and I believe you're at the limit of each piece of software for dealing with non-IBM batteries.

As was suggested, I'd carefully go through the T20 Driver matrix and install or reinstall every "reasonable" item.

And running the T20 on anything less than its limit of a half gig (which sure seemed nice at the time!) is folly. A 256Meg PC100 stick of memory, assuming you're not running 2x128 already, would be easily obtainable; I'm not the only one here who probably has it gathering dust in a drawer.

Art

If you have a 256MB PC100 low density stick "gathering dust in a drawer," I will gladly put it to use for you!

-Jeremy

ArtShapiro · #11 Post by **ArtShapiro** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:23 pm

MintyMadness wrote: If you have a 256MB PC100 low density stick "gathering dust in a drawer," I will gladly put it to use for you!

I went through the piles of debris in my cluttered home and failed to find any PC100, although I'm sure I have some. Found scads of PC133. I'll keep looking, although hopefully someone will have some to unload at a reasonable price.

Art, perpetually disordered and chaotic

phool@round · #12 Post by **phool@round** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:48 pm

Art, find any PC133 512MB......?

Phazer · #13 Post by **Phazer** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:31 pm

I put a T20 mobo in my T22 and before I upgraded to the 1.19 BIOS,(I think it was 1.09), the system only saw the 900 chip as 700, (512 ram). It was as you said painfully slow. After the BIOS upgrade, it saw the correct 900 CPU. Performance increase was substantial in my opiion. I'd suggest looking for a 900 chip on eBay, they ought to be able to be had for a reasonable amount. Of course, a major disassembley is required.

ArtShapiro · #14 Post by **ArtShapiro** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:32 pm

phool@round wrote:Art, find any PC133 512MB......?

I'd just recently had to purchase several 512ers for two machines that I decided to upgrade to a full gig each - the T23 and the wife's Dell C610. So sorry, no! Thus I have a few 256ers and 128ers sitting around, which aren't of much use these days.

Art

paramount · #15 Post by **paramount** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:15 am

I did the following:

1) increased virtual memory to 256-1024
2) installed .net 2.0 and the Lenovo Thinkvantage system update utility, then installed all recommended and optional system updates. This did not update the BIOS or controller. The components installed were: ThinkPad Configuration, TrackPoint Accessibility features, Keyboard Customizer utility, easyeject utility, access connections v 4.42, hotkey features setup, and power management driver v 1.43.
3) Chose all of the options to run XP in minimalist mode
4) chose power options as "minimal power management" (maximum performance was not a choice)
5) downloaded and installed MobileMeter. It shows 166-200 MHz processor speed no matter what I do. Processor temp is 46-50 C.

She's still very slow. I can't even play a DVD really--it's very choppy and takes forever to change scenes, etc.

I am looking at the driver matrix on the Lenovo website. Wouldn't the Thinkvantage utility have updated everything that needed to be updated (except the Bios and controller)?

So, it appears that the PROPER thing to do would be:

A) Buy new Lenovo battery; upgrade to latest BIOS and controller so that processor can be recognized properly

B) Buy two new 256 MB memory sticks to replace the 2x128 that I currently have

The combination of A and B would probably cost more than the laptop did, and I don't want to spend it.

Is it possible that upgrading the BIOS and controller can be done without killing my ability to charge my battery?

Also, is it possible (and would it be helpful) to upgrade the graphics capability? Does this thing take a dedicated graphics card?

Thanks for all of your help.

Wingnut · #16 Post by **Wingnut** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:09 am

I bought a very good & reasonably priced battery from E-bay:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... 0204168933

The price was so good, I bought 4 of them to reduce the shipping cost per unit. He doesn't have any listed right now, but if you contact him, he may have some more? At $8 + $10 for shipping, you can't loose. All 4 of the batteries I bought show green on the Battery Maximiser health screen and hold about a 2 hour charge.

Once you have a battery, you can update the bios and hopefully, that will fix your CPU recognition problem. No need to worry about extra RAM just yet. Get the CPU working properly first and that should speed things up tremendously.

EDIT: If that Thinkpan guy doesn't have any left, here is one for $12 + shipping for a used genuine IBM battery:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... 0023298612

phool@round · #17 Post by **phool@round** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:49 am

paramount wrote:Wouldn't the Thinkvantage utility have updated everything that needed to be updated (except the Bios and controller)?

The short answer is no. Have you installed the Windows XP supplement files?

paramount wrote: Does this thing take a dedicated graphics card?

yes and it can't be upgraded.

I wonder if your in APM mode instead of ACPI.

paramount · #18 Post by **paramount** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 7:14 pm

I went back to the Lenovo website. I downloaded and updated what I thought were the relevant drivers and updates for the T20 running XP, none of which (in my amateur opinion) seemed related to my processor running at 179 MHz. So I updated the BIOS to 1.22 and the embedded controller to 1.06. Got the flashing yellow battery light, since my battery is not genuine IBM. And my computer is still slow as molasses. When I right click on "My computer" and check the system properties, the processor displays as 141 MHz with 256 MB of RAM. Mobmeter shows it running between 166 and 200 MHz. When I enter the BIOS setup utility, only 192 MB of RAM is recognized, and the BIOS date is 1999 (as they all are).

What is wrong with this thing?

paramount · #19 Post by **paramount** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 7:44 pm

I went back into the BIOS setup and hit F9 ("setup defaults"), then saved the changes, and now it recognizes the whole 256 MB of RAM. So at least that seems ok.

I also went into the BIOS setup submenus and for SpeedStep selected "Maximum performance". But it still is running at 200 MHz or below.

paramount · #20 Post by **paramount** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:39 pm

Does anyone else have any more ideas? I know someone out there has the knowledge to get this computer running properly, but it's beyond me.

ArtShapiro · #21 Post by **ArtShapiro** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:01 pm

paramount wrote:Does anyone else have any more ideas?

Well, just for the sake of sparking discussion (perhaps that's a poor verb to use with a laptop): is there any change in this weird behavior when running on AC with no battery, period???

Art

paramount · #22 Post by **paramount** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:04 pm

I didn't try it before updating the BIOS, but I did try it after the BIOS update and the behavior was the same both with and without the battery in place: running at 166-200 MHz. Come to think of it, the non-IBM battery was in place (100% charged) during the BIOS update. I'm wondering whether it would change anything if I had a fully charged IBM battery and reinstalled the BIOS (or downgraded, then re-upgraded to the current BIOS). Does anyone have an opinion on this?

pianowizard · #23 Post by **pianowizard** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:23 pm

Have you run any diagnostic program such as PC-Doctor?

paramount · #24 Post by **paramount** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:54 am

I downloaded PC doctor 5 for windows from the Lenovo website (the T20 was not on the list of systems to which this download applies, but I assumed that was because the program requires XP or Vista, and the T20 didn't come with one of these OSs from the factory. Am I wrong?). The program installed ok and seemed to run perfectly when I ran a scan. Everything passed (except for devices not connected: ethernet connection and modem); however, the CPU was listed as "CPU:0:0:0:0:0" and the speed is given as 184 MHz.

Is it possible that my problem is simply that I don't have a genuine IBM battery installed? I found the following thread regarding clock speed with the battery removed for an X30:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=56789

Maybe simply need to have a real IBM battery and my processor would run at full speed? I'll buy an IBM battery.

ArtShapiro · #25 Post by **ArtShapiro** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:02 am

That's why I suggested removing the battery, period. That probably eliminates the possibility; can anyone confirm?

I think that would be a really expensive way to test. My T20 is out on loan, and I don't remember if it's a real IBM battery but can find out in the next couple of days. I have a T23 with a real IBM battery - guess we can see if the T20 and T23 take the same unit. It would be a lot cheaper for you to come up to Orange County than to purchase a real IBM battery.

Art

SMA · #26 Post by **SMA** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:36 am

This problem does not seem to be battery related.
Without a battery the machine should be running at 550 MHz. If it does not do that, then the problem is not battery related.

Since the machine has been bought used, I think that I would start by verifying what hardware is really present.
See if you can find the fru number of the motherboard.

Unless, the mb fru number does reveal something unusual, then I would say, that the only option, besides from getting another mb,
would be to try with another cpu (assuming that you do not want to go into a mb repair).

paramount · #27 Post by **paramount** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:28 pm

From the BIOS setup screen:

System-unit serial number 264744U78CPPC4
System board serial number J1F9E1158LE

If I enter the processor serial number submenu it says that serial number detection is not enabled

Does this mean that I have the right system board?

SMA · #28 Post by **SMA** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:55 pm

You did not get that right. I apologize, I should have explained more clearly.

The board's fru number will be on a printed label attached to the board.
If you open up the cover on the MiniPCI slot and takes out any MiniPCI card in there, then you will
see the label I am referring to. It should read something like FRU: 12P3069

#29 Post by **rkawakami** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:06 pm

Might be hard to visualize a plain motherboard when what you have is a complete system, but this is a bottom view of a T20 motherboard:

http://www.kawakami-ca.com/ibm_t2x/t20_ ... legend.jpg

When you remove the MiniPCI access panel and remove the card, the label that's being referred to is at C4/D4 in that picture.

paramount · #30 Post by **paramount** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:10 pm

It is very difficult to read this label through the PCI port, but I'm 95% confident that the number on the label is:

*1Z1NPK15351*

What does this imply?

T20 slow: Is it low mem, processor clock speed, BIOS, XP?

T20 slow: Is it low mem, processor clock speed, BIOS, XP?

Here's the info

Stay Where You Are

Re: Stay Where You Are

Re: Stay Where You Are

Alas

Update

update

update 2

Any more ideas?

Re: Any more ideas?

Is it the freaking battery?

Who is online