T20 slow: Is it low mem, processor clock speed, BIOS, XP?

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#31 Post by **rkawakami** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:22 pm

That you're reading from the wrong part of the label

.

The FRU should be toward the right side of the barcode label and start with "FRU". There should then be two numbers, a letter and then four numbers.

paramount · #32 Post by **paramount** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:36 pm

There's nothing more showing on the label by looking through the PCI port. I would need to disassemble the computer to view the label. Is it easy to open this thing up? I noticed that two of the screws on the bottom are missing.

ArtShapiro · #33 Post by **ArtShapiro** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:41 pm

Not rocket science if you carefully follow the HMM.

I recommend putting each "pile" of screws and parts on an appropriately labeled (say, the topic # from the manual) piece of paper or a small bag. It might take you an hour to get it apart, and somewhat more to get it back together given the inevitable snafus.

Art

paramount · #34 Post by **paramount** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:00 am

The computer runs, but it's painfully slow and the clock speed was reported as 179 MHz by Windows. Many posters state that 256 MB of RAM is not enough to run XP, but others say that is not my real problem. I installed all the Lenovo support updates for XP that I thought could be involved in performance issues, though I'm not completely sure I got all of these. I then updated the BIOS and embedded controller, so I can no longer charge the current battery because it's not OEM. (I should have a used IBM battery in a few days.) Measured processor speed both before and after BIOS update is 166-200 MHz as measured by MobMeter. Reported processor speed (in Windows) was 179 MHz before BIOS update, 141 MHz after. Running with or without the battery (after BIOS update) makes no difference. PC Doctor reports no problems. We believe that the non_OEM battery issue is not the cause for the low CPU clock speed, since that should cause at most a ~20% decrease from the max of 700 MHz. At the moment we suspect that the underperformance is due to some problem with the processor or mother board; possibly something was swapped out by the previous owner. Some screws are missing from the bottom of the laptop. I'm being asked to spend 2+ hrs to open up the computer to check the motherboard serial/model number.

I don't see the obvious path forward. I like tinkering to a point, but for me it seems worth it to buy another laptop that just works and sell this one to someone who knows how to tinker with it (with full disclosure, of course).

Any dissenting views?

phool@round · #35 Post by **phool@round** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:16 am

Well if you decide to sell let me know with a "PM", the button on the bottom left of the post box. Sounds very interesting, a challenge.

It takes a grand equivalent of maybe 15 minutes to have the system board out. Removing the system board may display an issue previously unnoticed such as a burned component, loose connection and so forth. I realize that you may not understand the significance of what's being asked but believe me it's significant when troubleshooting from afar. There's much experience here watching (as in my case) and offering suggestions.

Mr. Cloud · #36 Post by **Mr. Cloud** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:34 am

I had the same problem with a T22 I was given by my uncle. It had a dead ethernet board which would make it give 1 long and 2 short beeps when POST completed and the system was about to load the OS. After removing the board, it booted except that it was VERY slow, like yours. Windows Server 2003 Setup took about an hour and a half! I decided on a hunch to dismantle it and see what was wrong. I then noticed the CPU heatsink/fan was a bit loose and it was caked with dust so thick the fan could barely spin. When I removed the heatsink, I noticed the thermal goop on it and the CPU die was hardened. After many alcohol swabs and plenty of alcohol grease, I got both heatsink and CPU squeaky clean. I then washed the heatsink/fan in water to get rid of all the dust bunnies (more like lions!) out, then blasted the thing with hot hair from a hair dryer till it was dry. I then applied Arctic Silver 5 thermal grease to the CPU die in a thin layer and also rubbed a tiny amount into the heatsink with a lint-free cloth (in this case one of my T-shirts). I booted it up and boy, it was MUCH faster! It even booted up faster than my T42p! (Video below). Windows reported it as 696MHz, but I ran Orthos to load the CPU and I opened up CPU-Z, and it reported the core speed as 896MHz! Success!

http://i30.tinypic.com/1ibnld.jpg
How I applied the goop to CPU and heatsink, on my T42p and also my T22

http://i32.tinypic.com/240y638.png
System Properties and CPU-Z Info

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=15mhcia&s=3
T42p vs T22 boothing (T22 left, T42p right)

SMA · #37 Post by **SMA** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:52 pm

Thought that none of the Windows versions would interact with SpeedStep.
But it seems that I was wrong on that. XP - at least with SP2 - does interact with SpeedStep.

I guess this might be it.

Seems that 600x thinkpad's with upgraded cpu are having the same problem.

Better read for yourselves:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=23874

Think that the solution will be to change the processor driver, as stated in that tread.

paramount · #38 Post by **paramount** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:09 pm

I tried loading all three different processor driver options. Same results with all--same performance, Windows only recognizes processor as 141 MHz.

I am reluctant to dig around the insides yet. I will at least wait until I have an IBM battery in it (next week).

Mr. Cloud · #39 Post by **Mr. Cloud** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:21 pm

It's pretty easy to dismantle a T2x actually - just grab the HMM (PDF) from http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... IGR-4UYM3F
and follow the steps. I used a box with many compartments (for storing pills) to hold all the different screws. The battery does not determine the processor speed, my T22 has no battery and it still runs at full processor speed.

paramount · #40 Post by **paramount** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:24 pm

Hi all,

Thanks for all of the ideas and suggestions. I have already spent more time than I would like on this, so I have decided to look for a fully operational T23 or T30. I will either sell the crippled T20 or offer it as partial payment for the T23 or T30. See "marketplace" for my offer.

paramount · #41 Post by **paramount** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:57 pm

OK, I just realized that I didn't know the difference between the cardBus slot and the mini-PCI slot. Sorry for the rookie error. So I removed the network card in the PCI slot and found the motherboard FRU. It is:

FRU 12P3066 010

From a Google search I came up with "IBM - 2647 T-SERIES SYSTEM BOARD" so this appears to be the right board.

zdriver · #42 Post by **zdriver** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:53 am

It will be interesting if he decides to disassemble the laptop and pull the fan/heatsink to see what PIII processor is indeed installed.
Probably should be SL4JZ
Screws missing were noticed and cpu does not id correctly, could be previous owner messed with it, wrong step cpu for his motherboard. Also running cpuz might show additional info....

paramount · #43 Post by **paramount** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:47 am

Downloaded and ran CPU-Z. (I'm still running non-IBM battery.)

Results (partial listing):

CPU

Intel Pentium III E
Coppermine (Brand ID 2)
Specification: Intel Pentium III E 550 MHz
Core speed: 143-148 MHz

Mainboard

Mfgr IBM
Model 264744U Not Available
Chipset Intel i440BX/ZX Rev. C1

I also did the "register dump" to a text file but there's a lot of info there that I don't understand.

zdriver · #44 Post by **zdriver** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:05 am

Looks like cpuz has confirmed the slow speed reported by windows, and the processor info does not look right. Maybe some of the T2x experienced people here can tell you if you have the older motherboard which was a slower board and expand more on that processor. I am pretty familar with the T23 but not the T20.
According to what cpuz reports, you do not have the cpu that was originally in the thinkpad. I think you found a big piece of your problem, and no amount of ram or xp optimization will compensate for it.

SMA · #45 Post by **SMA** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:06 am

The system board fru number listed in the HMM is the same as the one present in this T20.
So the board is the correct one.

According to Intel specifications the possible 700 MHz cpu's are SL3Z8 and SL4JZ.

Believe that zdriver is right. It seems like you do not have the cpu that was originally in the thinkpad.

Phazer · #46 Post by **Phazer** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:47 am

Hey paramount, I've got a couple of CPU's out of a T20, one is an SL3Z8, and the other is an SL4JZ. Both are 700/256. I'd be glad to send them to you to test.

Let me know.

paramount · #47 Post by **paramount** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:23 pm

That is a kind offer but I can't justify spending any more time with this little project. I will offer the laptop for sale in the Marketplace forum. I'm sure one of you could get this computer up to speed in a matter of minutes with parts you have lying around, but it would be a major project for me. Thanks for all the help.

Merlin Witt · #48 Post by **Merlin Witt** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:26 pm

Paramount:
Before you give up, there a couple of things to think about. I am typing this on a T20 (2647-81U 700 Mhz 256 Meg 12 Gig Hd to be exact). I have been running XP home for several years. The problem you are having is VERY simple to fix. Especially if you get a free CPU. The Hardware Maintenance Manual has several steps that you need to do to remove the CPU and fan / heatsink assembly.

What I would suggest is that before you give up on your T-20 try this.
Remove the Main battery AND the CMOS battery. You will need a #1 Phillips (the small one) to remove the CMOS battery. Then with the same screwdriver remove the TWO (2) 1" long Phillips head screws that hold the keyboard in place. They are the ONLY recessed screws in the middle of the bottom of the unit. One is next to the battery latch. The other is next to the MiniPCI slot cover.
Then, and this is the tricky part, take a flat bladed screw driver OR a small pocket knife blade and slide it under the THIRD mouse button. There are plastic clips on each side of the keyboard that you need to release. One is under the left blank spot above the right arrow key. the other is below the Fn key.
If you lift on the third mouse button the keyboard will flex enough to release the clips. Then pull the keyboard toward the palm rests. When you have done this you can see the CPU heat sink / fan assembly. it is immediately below the Thinkpad and esc keys. It extends almost to the F6 key. There are four screws that hold the assembly in place. Once you have done this you will have a much better idea about the difficulty involved in replacing the incorrect CPU with the correct one.

Re-assembly is the reverse of the disassembly. There are two tricky places. Be careful to slide the keyboard UNDER the LCD hinge cover. It is the piece that has the LED light tubes attached. And when you are putting the CMOS battery back in the unit, you will find that a pair of longnose pliers are very helpful.
Merlin

paramount · #49 Post by **paramount** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:23 pm

All right, since I'm really supposed to be working on something else, and since I'm a born procrastinator, I went ahead and removed the keyboard, then removed the heat sink and fan. The processor has the following numbers stamped on it:

L039A424 SL4JZ
KP 700/256
INTEL '00

There is also a label on the processor with apparently a serial number, and then the following FRU:

FRU 12P3186

There was a little bit of dust around the fan, but really it looked fairly clean to me.

I swabbed off the fan with a Q-tip soaked in isopropanol, let it dry, then reassembled it. Started it up, was taken to the BIOS menu to reset the date/time. I didn't break anything with my exploration, but Windows still thinks I'm running a 141 MHz PIII, and Mobmeter still says 166 MHz. But it's running at 42 C now, which is cooler than before.

SMA · #50 Post by **SMA** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:15 pm

I just recently noticed that last post. I thought that the case was closed, as the machine can be found in the marketplace.

So now we know that you are having both the original board and the original CPU - and we still do not have a solution.

Here is what I have been doing lately.
On a T20 with a 750 MHz CPU and only 192 MB memory I made a fresh install from a "Windows XP Pro with SP2" CD.

After installation, XP reported the CPU speed as being 600 MHz.
I changed the power schema from "Portable/Laptop" to "Home/Office Desk".
There was no immediate effect, but after a reboot the speed changed to 750 MHz.
I used PC Wizard to double check the actual frequencies.

I wouldn't mind using that T20'er as my primary machine - at least, for a while.
I did not try to run one of the heavier applications. But for me, it seemed to respond quickly enough.

Phazer · #51 Post by **Phazer** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:59 pm

I put a T20 mobo in my daughters T22 with a 900 CPU. When I first fired it up, it only ran at 700, (the original CPU in the T20). After I upgraded the BIOS, it then saw it as 900. I then used the HMD and changed the type ID of the mobo to the original that matched on the bottom of the case. I left the UUID original that came with the replacement mobo. Maybe I was extremely lucky but went off without a hitch. BTW....I went with the next to the newest BIOS because of some mention of battery charge problems, (non IBM) after the latest & greatest update, I do have an IBM battery in it.
I've got two unknown condition mobo's for a T20 that I'll offer along with the CPU's. You pay for shipping only, I have no use for them, (until I get rid of them that is). Actually I have five but two have connectors off and one is password locked, (junk, don't ask).

paramount · #52 Post by **paramount** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:03 pm

I will remove the marketplace post; it seems like a shame to give up now. Somehow I think this is a software problem and not a hardware problem.

SMA-

I have an XP SP2 disk (from Microsoft), so I could do the fresh install. What procedure did you follow to install drivers?

Phazer-

That's a generous offer. I feel I should try the OS reinstall before I disect the hardware.

I now have a genuine healthy IBM battery that is recognized by the Battery Maximizer.

SMA · #53 Post by **SMA** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:56 pm

Great news paramount.
Solving this will also be of value to others. Think of this as being you dedicating some of your time to the community.

I fully agree - this is software, it is XP and it is SpeedStep.

I have done some experiments on a T22 and done a bit of reading on this lately. But I did not find much to
post about, except for possibly this:

. XP will handle P3 SpeedStep on BX based boards in what is said to be 'legacy mode'.

. The Lonovo download 'Windows XP installation supplements files' does contain a registry modification
that is SpeedStep related (CStateFlags.reg) - but applying it did not make any real difference for me.

. The Lonovo download 'Intel SpeedStep Technology Applet' can be installed on Windows XP, even though it should not be
relevant when running XP as it's functionally is supposed to be built into XP.

. 128 MB of memory is not enough, but 192 MB is ok for running XP on a P3 CPU.

Go for it paramount - do a fresh XP installation.

When the XP installation is prompting for a partition to install to, then delete the existing partition followed by creating a new partition.
This should ensure that it will be a completely fresh installation.

I did not install any drivers at all on the T20 as the only purpose of the installation was to see what the bare XP installation would provide.
The only thing extra installed was PC Wizard.

I have found that the processor frequency reported by Windows XP must be a calculated, theoretical value that cannot be trusted.

Looking forward to hearing the result.

phool@round · #54 Post by **phool@round** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:20 pm

50+ posts! - this brings a whole new meaning to the phrase, "Holding your own."

Phazer · #55 Post by **Phazer** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:36 pm

paramount: Just to be on the safe side. If you've got it, use a USB floppy and a W98 boot floopy to load the basic DOS tools. I'd suggest to format, then delete any and all partitions. XP ought to see that its not partitioned and will go ahead and do it for you. Without doing a "military wipe", this ought to remove all vestiges of the previous install.

paramount · #56 Post by **paramount** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:35 pm

I did the fresh install of XP SP1 with an immediate upgrade to SP2, after deleting both existing partitions. It's the same as before, even after going back to the Lenovo site and downloading all drivers for XP that had to do with battery, power, or processor (didn't get HD, networking, optical drive, etc. updates). It baffles me that it has this systemic sickness, yet it "works" fine--just in slow motion.

I just won a T23 on Ebay. Once I get that running I'll go through with the sale of this T20, probably on Ebay. If anyone is interested in buying it PM me. Sounds like a great project for someone here.

frankiepankie · #57 Post by **frankiepankie** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:55 pm

It is sad that a fresh XP install didn't fix your problem.

I was thinking that spyware was clogging on your T20, and that the spyware was causing the slowlyness, but now that i have read that you have reinstalled a fresh copy of XP, i am sure that it is a hardware problem (screwed motherboard or something).

cmarti · #58 Post by **cmarti** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:20 pm

paramount,

Did you measure the cpu speed after the fresh install? On battery and on ac.

paramount · #59 Post by **paramount** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:52 pm

CPU speed as measured by MobMeter and CPU-Z is around 200 MHz on AC or on battery. Before, when I was running with a non-IBM battery installed, I was getting a reading of around 165 MHz. The difference is due to the battery, and not the OS install.

Wingnut · #60 Post by **Wingnut** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:57 am

Just bumping this back up as I just came accross the exact same issue and hoping someone has found a solution in the last year since this post was started.

Its a T20 with a 700mhz processor running at between 140-180 mhz. It had a fresh install of XP home SP3 last night and was running fine all night as I transfered files & installed software. I installed AV software and let it run its course overnight and then today, the computer slowed right down.

Any new news???

T20 slow: Is it low mem, processor clock speed, BIOS, XP?

Disassembly

Does this summarize the situation?

Punting

Doh!

CPU-Z results

T20

For my next act, I'll try brain surgery...

Conclusion

Re: T20 slow: Is it low mem, processor clock speed, BIOS, XP?

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