Why Are Used X3x Machines So Expensive?

[ArtShapiro]

I've been toying with the idea of picking up a used X series machine.

The X4x machines are probably out, with that dog of a 4200 disk.

The X6x series are current and thus usually cost a non-trivial amount.

The X2x series is really falling off the technology curve.

I'd think the X3xers would border on the obsolete as well. They're heavier than the subsequent series, and certainly a T3x won't sell for a healthy sum these days. What is it about the X3x that seems to let it keep a surprisingly high resale value?

Pontifications welcome.

Art

[aaa]

You said it yourself, there's no inbetween. If X4x's didn't have such a dealbreaker, I'm sure the X3's would be alot cheaper.

[ajkula66]

Well, you've pointed out the answer yourself, or at least a good part of it...

Many people need "on the go" laptop, but don't want to spend the fortune on it, and would like the classy appeal of a ThinkPad...so what do you buy?

If you price yourself at under $500 for an everything-said-and-done machine, you won't be able to do better than a fully loaded X31/2, and rightfully so.

They may not be as light or battery efficient as their younger siblings, but an upgraded X31/2 will likely blow away X40/1 when it comes to performance. And they can still very well double as "home" computers, as long as you don't stress out the video and keep them cool.

Mind you, I'm not particularly keen on X31(never had a X32 so I really can't talk about it), but the fact of the matter is that its combination of weight/size/performance is still very acceptable to a large number of people, and hence its market price which shows them to have a very good ROI within the ThinkPad line.

And, unlike T30s, they do have PM CPUs...

Just my $0.02, obviously...

[Ken Fox]

I own one X32 (1.8ghz) and two X60s (1.8 and 2.0ghz, core duos). The X32 has one or two minor flaws when compared to the X60, such as only having 2 USB ports and only one of those is "full power." It also weighs a tiny bit more than the X60 does.

But, on the whole, the X32 is as functional as the X60 is. When I use it I find it just as speedy. I have lots of software loaded on it and it is fully up to date. It has never given me a lick of trouble.

Why on earth would I sell it to you or anyone else for a pittance? In a pinch, I could use it as my only computer, and get by with it for MONTHS.

The X32 (and presumably the X31) is nowhere near obsolete. There were not very many of the X32s made, and in fact when the X31 ceased production IBM (or at least a lot of their phone sales staff) denied that there would ever be an X32, that all further development would be with the X4x series. But then they started selling the X32, which was available for a couple of months, maybe, then discontinued.

I won't sell mine to you for a few hundred bucks for the same reason that hardly anyone else will sell theirs to you for the same amount; the X32 which I have is worth way more to me than what you would pay me for it, so I'll keep my X32 and you can keep your $300, or whatever.

[weepy]

nicely said

art: you know, what you want and you are certainly aware of its value... don't hesitate to pay what they ask because these machines are worth it.

I bought my X41 for considerable amount, asus, acer sells dual core 2GB RAM, 120GB disk for this price... but the keyboard, the display, the build quality... a definite head turner . And the disk... certainly, ssd era comes and i will be stuck with compact flash.. but I don't care, I will not give this machine away for few bucks only because some acer sells their up to date but creaky nb with low quality TN display (mirrored glare- man i need to see whats on the screen, not push out my pimples with it ).

[Quattro]

The X4x seies are still expensive though. Maybe even moreso than the X31+.

[WarMachine]

Hello,

I will not give this machine away for few bucks only because some acer sells their up to date but creaky nb with low quality TN display

Ab-so-lu-te-ly true !!!

I often say that too.

It's better to spend 400€ (I'm french ) in a refurbished T40 than buy the ultimate Acer which costs the same price, but which is very worse !

I don't want a broken laptop 3 months after buying it. I want to be able to stand on it, and see that it runs perfectly after. I don't want to have a mirror in front of me. I want to work in silence. I want to type comfortably. I want to carry it everywhere I go, and not to be afraid everytime I do a move.

That's why I prefer the Thinkpads compared to any other laptops.

Ancient Thinkpads are not expensive If you look at all the pleasure they can give you.

An example : I love boots too. I prefer buying expensive ones (200 or 300€). I know I will keep them a lot of time. If I buy 10€ or 20€ shoes, I will not keep them more than one or two years. My first pair of "real" boots is 17 years old, and is like new. One of my best buy !

It's the same thing for Thinkpads.



W.

[Steevp]

I bought a T43p when they were reasonably current and paid over £1000 for it.

Last week I paid £250 for an unused but unboxed x32 in pristine condition.

In real world use the X32 is faster than the T43p.. the screen is brighter and the battery lasts longer.. I have a sneaky feeling the X32 is going to make the T43p obsolete.

To my mind this is why they still command a decent price!

[obpsym]

I just picked up a X32 last night, 1.8Ghz/1.5G/40G with the Ultrabase and DVD.

I've been looking out for one for a while, there are quite a few X31 models about but this is the first X32 I've seen.

The second had price for a comparable 1.5Ghz X40 was around 30% more than the X32. I just don't see the value in the X40.

So far the X32 feels very solid, screen is bright and it's not a slow machine.

I like the look and especially the feel of the casing. I wish there was a cover for the parallel port which shows the machine's age..

[Puppy]

I bet X6x will go up on the price list as well if Lenovo will continue with idiotic widescreens only.

[beaker]

I value my X32 because it has APM Power Management and it can be used in the "Think Dock" docking station. All the new X series have to use the UltraBase; it is not as comfortable to type on the UltraBase as the old Think Docks.

[dr_st]

The X32 is the equivalent of T42 in terms of components and performance. Both are arguably the best pre-60 series laptops of their respective series. But while the T42 had the T43 to compete with, and the latter does win in raw performance (while introducing some minor flaws that overall make it, to me at least, worse than a T42), the X32 beats X40/X41 in everything except weight. No wonder it still sells for a lot, it should.

[weepy]

the X32 beats X40/X41 in everything except weight

No X3x tablet exists . I see only the HDD issue (fix by using CF) and battery issue (no solution here). According to thinkwiki, no X3x has an IPS display .

[ajkula66]

weepy wrote:

No X3x tablet exists . I see only the HDD issue (fix by using CF) and battery issue (no solution here). According to thinkwiki, no X3x has an IPS display ?

I don't think that OP's initial question had anything to do with tablets whatsoever...otherwise he wouldn't be considering X3x series in the first place...you're right on all counts, though...

Personally, I'd rather have a X32 when compared to X41...and, in all honesty, wouldn't have a problem skipping both of them and moving up the way some X6x prices have been lately...

Just my $0.02, obviously...

[synchromesh]

The second had price for a comparable 1.5Ghz X40 was around 30% more than the X32. I just don't see the value in the X40.

I got an X40 in my sig and an X31 I got recently. The X40 is *significantly* lighter, thinner and smaller. The difference in weight is especially obvious with battery attached.

I haven't lived with either on daily basis as I need a desktop because for some strange reason dual 8800GT cards just don't fit well into most Thinkpads . But if I had one to choose it would definitely be the X40.

[ragefury32]

Hm. let's see. Stuff that I like about the X31:

a) Cooler running Banias CPU (slightly slower, but a little better in terms of maturity and stability on undervolting)

b) Extendability (The fact that it supports a 9.5mm/2.5" HDD is a major plus)

c) Upgradeability (b/g/n wireless, BMDC2 + Stereo Bluetooth via BlueSoleil)

d) Good aftermarket support (I can still get batteries for it)

e) Good Ergonomics (round volume/Access IBM buttons, ports mostly in the back, battery in the front, none of the weird "ethernet/VGA on the side crap" that was on the T4x/X4x series, and certainly no battery jutting out off the rear which makes it tough to "sleeve" - don't get me wrong, I love my T42p, but the 42p is not nearly as much a "road" machine as the 31)

f) Compatibility with the ThinkDock Slims (oh man, I love that thing when it's on my desk at work)

g) Discrete Graphics (Yeah, that Radeon M6 is old, but it works well in Google Maps/OSX86 with full OpenGL acceleration/Beryl in Linux)

h) Speed (even my 1.4Ghz Pentium-M seems fast enough to let me compile J2 code - and it does an okay job even with 480p HD video playback)

Stuff I don't like about it:

a) Reliability (I used to average 1 new motherboard/year, due to the fact that the board has 3 massive chips that is not well braced inside. Any cold solder and a quick knock to the floor will spell doom for you. That's why my X31 has a warranty running until 2010)

And as an X41 Tablet owner, I would say that the 31 is overall a better machine, just by the virtue that the 31 feels quicker (despite what the specs tell you),

I dunno, guys and gals. As an 31 owner I would be VERY reluctant to sell it at anything less than market price. This machine is "something special", kinda like the Pismo Powerbook. I am convinced that the only thing that can replace it is either another X31, or an X300. (the X61 is VERY good, though)

[discoy2k]

as an owner of:
X20
X21
X22
X23
x24
X30
X31
X32
X60 core duo

i can explain it very simply, these machines are the best, highest quality, lightest, best battery life, by far most durable, and NO the X3's and the X23/X24 are not obsolete, i use them with linux and they perform fine!

like my granpa always said, you get what you pay for, you buy another brand (excluding fujitsu of course) and you buy junk!

[ekincam]

as an owner of:
X20
X21
X22
X23
x24
X30
X31
X32
X60 core duo

i can explain it very simply, these machines are the best, highest quality, lightest, best battery life, by far most durable, and NO the X3's and the X23/X24 are not obsolete, i use them with linux and they perform fine!

like my granpa always said, you get what you pay for, you buy another brand (excluding fujitsu of course) and you buy junk!

So your X3x series is better built than the X60?

[ArtShapiro]

I was the OP on this long (and interesting!) thread. Let me perhaps end it by describing the situation and the outcome.

My wife, a perpetual student, is now attending a fairly hilly campus (Cal State Fullerton) where the bulk and weight of her current Dell C610 is causing her a problem dragging it up and down and around.

The kicker is that, as I once posted while soliciting ideas for a lighter laptop, she really disliked the T30 I gave her when I upgraded to a T42. She says she didn't like the keyboard! That's why I bought her the Dell.

I can't figure that one out, but the few times she's used my T42 she didn't spontaneously volunteer any complaints.

So I figured I might take the risk on an X31 or X32 machine. If she hated it, I could probably resell it. The X3x seemed to be the reasonable balance of weight, power, and cost for her modest needs. Well, I still think they cost too much - doubtlessly because of the canine X4x series perturbing the cosmos.

Anyway, just this morning, I did something completely silly: I ordered an X61 for her from the Lenovo outlet. This is obviously a lot more expensive, and is such preposterous overkill for her needs that I should be directed to a nearby shrink, but I guess (having never knowingly seen an X series machine in my life) that it ought to be light enough to make her happy.

Art

[Ken Fox]

Anyway, just this morning, I did something completely silly: I ordered an X61 for her from the Lenovo outlet. This is obviously a lot more expensive, and is such preposterous overkill for her needs that I should be directed to a nearby shrink, but I guess (having never knowingly seen an X series machine in my life) that it ought to be light enough to make her happy.

Art

I predict that she will be happy with it. The X6x is a very nice line of machines; on balance, I prefer mine to my older X32. At the prices these are going for today, especially if you got a good deal from the Outlet, they are a steal.

[ajkula66]

Even if she doesn't end up liking it, I'm certain you will...

These are very fine ThinkPads, and if I could possibly justify the need for one, I would've had it already.

[qviri]

... Why on earth would I sell it to you or anyone else for a pittance? In a pinch, I could use it as my only computer, and get by with it for MONTHS.

...

I won't sell mine to you for a few hundred bucks for the same reason that hardly anyone else will sell theirs to you for the same amount; the X32 which I have is worth way more to me than what you would pay me for it, so I'll keep my X32 and you can keep your $300, or whatever.

Ken, with all due respect, the fact you'll keep an older laptop as a back-up is not universal. Business owners, for example, have no use for a "back-up" once they upgrade to a new line. Others, reflecting on the fact that the prices will only go down, sell when they stop using the laptop regularly. I'm not saying what you're doing is wrong or unwise, but I would argue it is not what the majority of X31/X32 owners are doing, nor it is the primary reason why the prices of X31/X32 are what they are.

[ajkula66]

There are three main reasons for prices of the X31/X32 being the way they are IMHO:

a) Their utility value by far supersedes their market price. As long as you're comfortable with running XP, and don't have demands for outstanding video performance, they can be one's only machine and perform just fine.
b) They are much more upgradeable than X4x series.
c) The price gap between them and X6x is still very noticeable.
d) As for the X32, it also has the rarity factor on its side, which makes it even more desirable. There are not too many pre-CoreDuo-ThinkPads that I haven't owned, and X32 is one of them.

Just my $0.02...

[fkelly]

George I agree 100% with your points. Bottom line is we as the consumer are making this an "expensive" machine. If we are willing to pay the "high pricetag" then the seller can set whatever price he decides the market will bear.
Personally I have been watching the Lenovo outlet and the X61s has dropped below $800 clams. I recently picked up an X31 for $500 and I love it. The smaller footprint is what I love the most so I am now moving from the T-4x series to the smaller X series.
I am patiently (maybe not) waiting for the X300 to take off, so the pirce of the X6 series continues to drop.
As that gap closes I will be closer to buying an X61.

I will admit that my machine is loaded with 2Gig memory and a 100/7200 HD and it makes me wonder why move toward the higher spec'ed X6 series when the X31 is pretty durn nice.

It appears that alot of folks are beginning to realize that dropping to a smaller footprint laptop doesn't mean you have to give up the computing power. Look at the dropping prices of the T4 series and the scramble when an X series is put on the market.

For now I am loving my (ok, my wifes) X31 with all its small charm and grace.

[m509272]

I'll chime in too. My 3 year old X31 is pretty much on 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Mostly used for business for web development, runs a Sybase server and a Cold Fusion server. It replaced my X20 which just simply got a bit too slow. It, of course, is still working and was subjected to the same constantly on scenario also for about 3 years. The hard drive did go but that's it.

I go anywhere on a trip business or pleasure, the X31 goes with me. Been dropped from 4' onto concrete nearly two years ago. Landed right on the back corner, cracked the metal a little but ran without any issues. What can I say, they're tanks.

Just bought an X60 with 3 year warranty off the outlet for $600. 100GB 7200 / 2GB / T5600 / 8 cell / XP Pro. The only reason I did that was because the warranty just expired on my X31 and the deal was absurd. Did want bluetooth and 160GB but the $500 difference for a 2.2Ghz and those items simply just didn't justify the extra cash.

[monkey243]

I have X31 2672B1J. The performance is better than most of X4x. But X4x is lighte, thin. It base on what you need.

[WarMachine]

I have X31 2672B1J. The performance is better than most of X4x. But X4x is lighte, thin. It base on what you need.

My X31 flies with it's 5400 rpm HDD in it.

The weight is nice and I wouldn't sacrify the horsepower of my X31 for a little gain in terms of weight by switching to an X4x machine.

This 1.8" / 4200 rpm HDD, for me, kills the X4x.

W.

[Jan_Hoho]

I've been following this interesting discussion for a while and I hope you don't mind if I use it for some of my own questions.

Now, it seems like the main reason against the X4* series is the non-upgradable slow hdd. This seems to deter a lot of people from buying it, and as a result, I see many units, especially X40s on eBay that sell for little more than $300.

I need an X-series TP. Size and weight are very important to me. Speed not so much as I have a T60 for that.

Are there any other issues with the X40 that I am not aware of? I hear differing things about battery life and the screen...

[DVormann]

Now, it seems like the main reason against the X4* series is the non-upgradable slow hdd.

Yes. For most people the HDD is the only reason against X4x. X3x can use a better docking solution (Dock II).

I need an X-series TP. Size and weight are very important to me. Speed not so much as I have a T60 for that.

Can you cope with a 4200 rpm HDD? If so the X4x series will suit you.

If you can live with an 8 GB system disk you can replace the HDD with CF. Add more flash for data storage. Might buy an X60s for the combined cost, though.

Are there any other issues with the X40 that I am not aware of?

X40 is limited to 1280 or 1536 MB RAM. X31, X32 and X41 can use 2 GB.

I hear differing things about battery life and the screen...

X40 has better battery life than any X3x. There are some (very few) X40 with ULV CPU. Finding one increases battery life even more.

[ajkula66]

Also, I have yet to see a X40 without major pressure marks on the screen...I'm not saying they don't exist, though, but these LCDs seem to be very sensitive to everything and anything.