T43p-Fan died - IBM replaced 3xFan, 1xSytemboard; 1xCPU

Message

tomkit66 · #1 Post by **tomkit66** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:23 am

Hi all,

My T43p did a wonderful job during the last 30 months. I use the mini docking station with two 22" Dell monitors and except one CD/DVD drive which died 12 months ago I had nothing to complain and was sure the EUR 3.600,00 were well spent.

A few weeks ago the fan started to get louder (till then I did not hear anything except jobs with heavy cpu or graphic usage).

A week later system shut down with the "fan error" when trying to restart.

Since I have bought the 36 month OnSite repair service, I called the support and within 2 days a tech guy came and exchanged the fan unit. We had windows open and so I did not hear that the new fan was working all the time, regardeless if the T43 had something to do or was on idle.

I called again and they said no problem the will exchange it again. This happened today and since all windows had been shut and no radio was running, it was obvious from the first restart with the brand new fan unit that this runs all the time as well.

The tech guy shooked his head and said that he would not accept that noise as well but he does not know what he should do. He offered me to exchange the whole mainboard but he is not sure if that will help.

I told him that I will call him tomorrow because I will try to get as much information and opinions before we start to exchange bit for bit.

So, what should I do?
What else could be a problem?
What kind of information can I give him, what else can he try?

I am not ready to give up on my T43p since I was satisfied over all the time and never had any workstation or laptop before causing almost no troubles and I still have almost 6 months of guarantee!

HELP and Thanks in advance
Tom

aaa · #2 Post by **aaa** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:09 am

Obvious, but did you look in the Task Manager for anything using more than a couple percent of CPU?

Also check this: http://sourceforge.net/project/screensh ... _id=153962

It'll show you the temperature (so you can see if it's the CPU or GPU), and if you still can't figure out what's the problem then you can use it to control the fan as well.

Also, look into undervolting with NHC if you haven't already.

tomkit66 · #3 Post by **tomkit66** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:28 pm

Thanks for the fast reply!

Yes, I checked Task Manager - everything normal here, no more than 2% or 3%.

I will look into the T43 fan control software, but I am kind of suspicious why I should use a software to control something what worked for more than 2 1/2 years!

If I understand you right it will show me at least where a problem could be - the CPU and/or the GPU temperature. Are there any reference values for the two temps?

No, I did not look into NHC. Undervolting the whole system sounds complicated and dangerous, no?

Thanks
Tom

tomkit66 · #4 Post by **tomkit66** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:17 pm

Okay here are the results of Fan Control V0.18

Fan State: Fan Level 7, Non Bios
Highest: 78°C
Fan Speed: 4017

CPU 65°C
APS 53°C
PCM 41°C
GPU 79°C
BAT 37°C
BAT 35°C
BUS 52°C
PCI 54°C
PWR 50°C

Could someone help me with these values?

Thanks
Tom[/img]

#5 Post by **Harryc** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:00 pm

65*c at idle is a bit high, and would explain why the fan is running full speed all the time. First, I am willing to bet my next paycheck that your old T43 fan was running all the time too, but at a much lower speed so you didn't really notice it. Personally I'd reseat the fan myself with a paper thin coat of some Arctic Silver thermal compound and not call service again.

tomkit66 · #6 Post by **tomkit66** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:09 pm

The tech guy did put some extra thermal compound on it since he was the same who exchanged the first fan 2 weeks ago.

The GPU temp is around 80°C - is that normal?

#7 Post by **Harryc** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:45 pm

Extra (as in thicker) thermal compound is bad for heat transfer. Think paper thin layer, almost translucent. Buy some arctic silver 5, print out the application instructions, and hand them to the repair guy if you have to ...

.
The GPU temp is high too if the machine is at idle ...
http://www.arcticsilver.com/pdf/appinst ... _expsd.pdf

Note Item #1 in the instructions

1) Initial Precautions
• Don't put it in your mouth.

tomkit66 · #8 Post by **tomkit66** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:39 pm

Okay I guess he was careful when adding the thermal compound, but I am sure it was no ArticSilver5 ...

What made me suspicious was that he said that he could exchange the mainboard as well but if that does not help he would not know what to do ...

Question: If nothing helps do I have to live with that annoying fan or do I have a right during the 36 months that IBM get that fixed or offers me a deal with a new model or something like that?

Thanks
Tom

P.S. I will not forget Item #1

#9 Post by **Harryc** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:00 pm

I believe that you have to give the repair service 3 attempts to fix the original problem before Lenovo would entertain replacement..and to tell you the truth I forget where I heard or read that, so call Lenovo and ask them directly what the policy is.

rbena · #10 Post by **rbena** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:48 am

Harryc wrote:Note Item #1 in the instructions

1) Initial Precautions
• Don't put it in your mouth.

I'm thinking this may date back to earlier days, when toothpaste was sometimes used for heat sink transfer?

FTC · #11 Post by **FTC** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:49 pm

Hi,

Your problem is clearly an umproperly replaced heatsink fan. Your GPU is not making the right contact with the fan, and the CPU is not either that good... The fan is activated at medium-high speeds because the system sees those temps. Maybe this is because the thermal compound is not correctly applied (too much/too few), or because the sink is bent a bit, or because the screws are not fastened well, or you have removed the 'pink' thermal material sheet in the GPU part and not filling the gap,... whatever it is you either look for someone who can do it under warrantee (lenovo), or fix it yourself (not that difficult), but GPU temp should be around 60C when at idle and CPU not higher than that either (much lower if power management is properly configured for the processor).

tomkit66 · #12 Post by **tomkit66** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:05 pm

FTC wrote:Hi,

Your problem is clearly an umproperly replaced heatsink fan. Your GPU is not making the right contact with the fan, and the CPU is not either that good... The fan is activated at medium-high speeds because the system sees those temps. Maybe this is because the thermal compound is not correctly applied (too much/too few), or because the sink is bent a bit, or because the screws are not fastened well, or you have removed the 'pink' thermal material sheet in the GPU part and not filling the gap,... whatever it is you either look for someone who can do it under warrantee (lenovo), or fix it yourself (not that difficult), but GPU temp should be around 60C when at idle and CPU not higher than that either (much lower if power management is properly configured for the processor).

Hi and Thanks!

I will print this thread and show it to the TechGuy! I really don´t wanna fumble around myself ... first I paid around EUR 300,-- for the extended warranty, 2nd I paid more than EUR 3.500,-- for my T43p and 3rd most important I really have two left hands

So your advise and experience is very helpful and much appreciated, because I will call the guy and tell him to bring a new motherboard (because he mentioned that during excahnging the first fan unit the downside of the motherboard may have been bent and so it has a lose contact to the fan) and ArticSilver5 and hopefully this will do the trick...if not I have no idea what I should/could do!

Thanks
Tom

MangoGT · #13 Post by **MangoGT** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:54 pm

I have a T43 and have a history of motherboard issues.

The first time around, the control board was cracked. The major symptom was that my machine was running extremely hot and it would freeze relatively often. I thought it was a fan problem but turns out, it was the system board. It was replaced under EzServ warranty.

A year later, I had the same issues (running hot, fan making insane sounds, etc.) but we never found the cause. Control board and fan were replaced under EzServ warranty.

Now, I've had several NMI Parity Errors and recently, I've been getting PFN_LIST_CORRUPT errors (and BSODs) every hour. My computer is running fine right now, but even the slightest memory heavy application will result in a BSOD.

Not counting the replaced keyboard, replaced optical drive, and power management issues, this is the third time I am sending this Thinkpad in for major repair. I bought an IBM Thinkpad for reliability--not this disaster.

tomkit66 · #14 Post by **tomkit66** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:17 pm

Hi Mango!

Hmm so I better be happy because as I stated in my first post I was really satisfied for almost 30 months.

Okay one should assume that spending so much money leads into less troubles but if browsing the internet it seems that there is almost no electronic part out there which doesn´t cause troubles for may people.

Well those platforms and forums bring people together ... in the old days (hey and I am only about 40) everyone thought being the only guy with bad luck and that was what they have told you ... not that easy anymore

Reading about your problems make me sure to let them exchange the system board.

Thanks for the reply
Tom

tomkit66 · #15 Post by **tomkit66** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:28 am

Hi all,

So the story continues ... tech guy was here yesterday and exchanged the system board after replacing the fan unit 2 times a few weeks ago.

Started the machine and ... same story ... fan runs at 4000 rpm and drives me crazy.

Overall the system temps are slightly lower:

NEW FAN/
OLD SYSTEM BOARD.........NEW FAN & SYTEM BOARD

Fan Speed:..........4017 rpm...........4028rpm

CPU..........65°C..........57°C
APS..........53°C..........51°C
PCM..........41°C..........39°C
GPU..........79°C..........66°C
BAT..........37°C..........36°C
BAT..........35°C..........25°C
BUS..........52°C..........50°C
PCI..........54°C..........55°C
PWR..........50°C..........49°C

All temps while I write this message without running anything else, processor load around 0% to 3%

Okay, so what to do now?
Since the tech guy started to say something like
"hmm mine at home makes the same noise" and
"well if a fan runs it´s supposed to make that noise and I do not know how it was before"
I am not sure if they will come again and even they come again what else should they replace?

TIA
Tom

sjthinkpader · #16 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:42 am

Go to the 750 CPU.

tomkit66 · #17 Post by **tomkit66** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:46 am

sjthinkpader wrote:Go to the 750 CPU.

And what´s that ?

FTC · #18 Post by **FTC** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:54 am

Hi,

57C for CPU and 66C for GPU at idle is much better but still borderline indicating a *not so good* contact. I'd try to remount the heatsink once more. It is basically the GPU that is still forcing the fan at medium speed now...

Chris001 · #19 Post by **Chris001** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:08 am

FTC wrote:Hi,

57C for CPU and 66C for GPU at idle is much better but still borderline indicating a *not so good* contact. I'd try to remount the heatsink once more. It is basically the GPU that is still forcing the fan at medium speed now...

The replacement fans come with a protective plastic film (pink in color) over the GPU end of the heatsink. It could be possible that the tech forgot to remove it.

Chris

sjthinkpader · #20 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:39 pm

tomkit66 wrote:
sjthinkpader wrote:Go to the 750 CPU.
And what´s that ?

750 is the 1.87Ghz CPU. Much less thermal output.

tomkit66 · #21 Post by **tomkit66** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:16 am

FTC wrote:Hi,

57C for CPU and 66C for GPU at idle is much better but still borderline indicating a *not so good* contact. I'd try to remount the heatsink once more. It is basically the GPU that is still forcing the fan at medium speed now...

Thanks for the reply! So I will have them call again, because I really don´t wanna fumble around with it myself. I saw how many screws the tech guy removed and with my two left hands ... oh well!

Do these log values and settings look okay:

[22.03.2008 08:03:43] Current Config:

[22.03.2008 08:03:43] Active= 0, Cycle= 5, FanBeep= 1200 30, MaxReadErrors= 10

[22.03.2008 08:03:44] IconLevels= 50 55 60, IgnoreSensors= XXX,YYY,ZZZ

[22.03.2008 08:03:44] Levels= 47°C -> 0, 50°C -> 3, 55°C -> 4, 60°C -> 7, 70°C -> 0x80

tomkit66 · #22 Post by **tomkit66** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:20 am

Well, I don´t know if he forgot something to remove or add.

What made me a little suspious was the fact that he was astonished about the FanControl software I showed him because he didn´t know anything about it and that he did not look into some settings or anything else.

He just replaced the sysboard put everything together and left.

sjthinkpader · #23 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:19 pm

tomkit66 wrote:...

What made me a little suspious was the fact that he was astonished about the FanControl software I showed him because he didn´t know anything about it and that he did not look into some settings or anything else.

He just replaced the sysboard put everything together and left.

They get paid by doing what they are assigned to do and do it efficiently.

tomkit66 · #24 Post by **tomkit66** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:05 am

sjthinkpader wrote:
They get paid by doing what they are assigned to do and do it efficiently.

Well it seems not good enough so far ...

Nick Y · #25 Post by **Nick Y** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:02 pm

Chris001 wrote:...The replacement fans come with a protective plastic film (pink in color) over the GPU end of the heatsink. It could be possible that the tech forgot to remove it....Chris

I posted this before at http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... highlight=, after replacing the fan on the T41p, but I will copy here.
======

I think the instructions in the h/w manual are a bit confusing. I don't think that the pink sheet should be removed as I think that it is a thermal pad and therefore doesn't stick to the GPU but conveys heat to the heatsink. (When the T41p motherboard was replaced a few months ago, IBM did not remove the pink sheet as I found out when I had to replace the fan. My concerns about lifting the heatsink away from the GPU turned out to be simple.)

The h/w manual mentions removing a plastic sheet ... Page 105:
' Only in the case of Fan assembly, long, you need to peel
the plastic sheet b off on the thermal rubber before you
place it on the system board. Fan assembly, long M10
DOES NOT have the plastic sheet. '

I did check the GPU temp after replacing the fan and using Spybot - Search & Destroy and scanning AVG I managed to get the temp up to about 63 deg.C -when FanControl brought the fan in at level 3. Normally the GPU sits at around 53/55 deg. C I think. (The T41 is back with daughter, so cannot confirm.

I would be interested to know what others think about the pink sheet.

=======

FTC · #26 Post by **FTC** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:51 pm

Hi

Basically, the pink sheet is the "thermal rubber" mentioned in the manual which is *not* intended to be removed, but must make good contact with the GPU. You can remove it though, and will have a bit better thermal transfer but then two things will happen :

-1. If you leave the *black* gunk that is normally attached to the copper and to the pink sheet there, it is quite sticky, and you may have problems in the future to remove the heatsink if mounted with it.
- 2. It seems clear then that if you remove the pink sheet then you should also remove the black sticky gunk, but then you will have to apply thermal compound between the copper (hs) and the GPU, but will find that there is a space to be filled which is too big, so
- Either you should then bend the heatsink to make contact
- Or fill the space with something ... recommended, a small copper sheet.

AdaSch · #27 Post by **AdaSch** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:04 pm

After 10 hours

CPU LIQUID PrO

GPU AS5

cpu pentium M 780

br

tomkit66 · #28 Post by **tomkit66** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:54 am

AdaSch wrote:After 10 hours

CPU LIQUID PrO

GPU AS5

cpu pentium M 780

br

I wonder why your fan would run at 4000 rpm while your temps are so low? Did you adjust anything by hand? Mine would not run at all with temprature under 50°C!

AdaSch · #29 Post by **AdaSch** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:50 am

Hi,

i don't use tpfan. This is std bios settings.

With tp fan

but i found why std fan in t43p is very loud

2 easy mechanical mod and now is silence like in my t40 (no needed to use tpfan)

if You/someone need i can send solution on PM and you rewrite this in clear english for all

br

Bashar · #30 Post by **Bashar** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:25 am

AdaSch wrote:Hi,

i don't use tpfan. This is std bios settings.

With tp fan

but i found why std fan in t43p is very loud

2 easy mechanical mod and now is silence like in my t40 (no needed to use tpfan)

if You/someone need i can send solution on PM and you rewrite this in clear english for all

br

my fan noise goes up and down, now its quiet not and this is the heat:

how you could edit the Mode ? its not editable from my side

also if you can re-write what you did to help us that would be great

Thanks

T43p-Fan died - IBM replaced 3xFan, 1xSytemboard; 1xCPU

T43p-Fan died - IBM replaced 3xFan, 1xSytemboard; 1xCPU

Same Problem

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