feedback on purchases for RtW trip kit.. X3? X4? T4?

[sz]

Ok, please bear with me. This is going to take a couple of lines of elaboration....

* We (wife and I) are taking off on a 1 year+ trip traveling around the world. We'll be backpacking, staying in hostels, on farms, camping, etc. Everything that we will have available is going to be carried on our backs.

* My wife is very into digital photography. (expecting 1-2GB of photo data/day)
* We're keeping a blog.
* We hope to geotag pics and post google earth kml files for our friends and family.
* I'm both (a) "frugal" (cheap) and (b) desirous of keeping the cost for equipment which has a decent chance of being stolen/broken down to a tolerable level, so I am looking to pick up the laptop used.
* I don't need/want a tablet.
* I'll be running linux.

In the interest of handling photo management + blog stuff + google earth + basic internet duties + etc.....

I need a laptop, lots of hard drive space, and a dvd burner.

The smaller/lighter I can get this setup while still remaining *durable* and not spending excessive $$$, the happier I'll be. The fewer separate pieces I have to carry, the better, as well.

I've been focusing my research on the thinkpad line because - short of buying an actual ruggedized (and likely twice as heavy) notebook - they seem to get the most recommendations in terms of sturdiness and build quality. I figure 12+ months of bouncing around on my back - even in a decent sleeve - are going to kill most of the dell/hp/asus comparables. If anyone has other suggestions besides thinkpads, please air them. I've looked at the panasonic cf-r[345] and the cf-w[245], but they are hard to come by used and still quite expensive. I've considered one of smaller fujitsu lifebook series, but don't get the impression that they are as durable as the thinkpads.

Currently, I'm considering one of the following combinations:

* thinkpad x31/32 + laptop dvd burner + ext. 250gb hard drive.
+ cheap, standard laptop hard drive could be replaced.
- heavier than X4 in standard config (although extended battery for X4 tends to balance out things), older, low-mem (16MB) ati radeon card pretty marginal for anything requiring much horsepower.

* thinkpad x40/41 + laptop dvd burner + ext. 250gb hard drive.
+ cheap (not as cheap as X3), lighter-weight with standard battery, newer than X3 models (likely lower wear), more powerful intel graphics, built-in sd-card reader. X41 uses DDR, making 2GB upgrade cheaper.
- standard battery has low run-time. slow 1.8" hard drive.

* thinkpad T40/41/42/43 w/ built-in dvd burner + ext 250gb hard drive.
+ better graphics than X3, possibility of built-in dvd burner, standard laptop hard drive., 1400x1050 resolution.
- noticeably larger than X3/X4, but with built-in dvd burner, not all that significantly different in total weight. probably have to buy dvd burner 2nd-hand (ultrabay slim, $100), since most T4X on ebay seem to come with the combo dvd/cdrw drives...

Am I missing anything here? Yes, I know I've skipped a few of the techical differences (but trust me, I've read enough tech specs for these machines both here and on thinkwiki to make my eyeballs bleed), but I'm just wondering if I've missed some obvious tradeoff that I should be considering.

If it wasn't for the durability issue, I'd be considering a lot of other subnotebooks, but everytime I read about 'flex' in a review, I shudder and cross that model off my list.

If you've read this far, thanks! Advice appreciated. I know I could probably solve this entire problem if I were willing to throw $1500-$2000 at it, but it seems crazy to spend that kind of money when I don't need the rest of the capabilities I'll get and just end up carrying around an even more irresistible thief magnet.


sz

[SaberX]

Sounds like a fun trip.
For the 1500.00~2000.00.
I would look at the X60 also.
The X60 will have lots of CPU power.It used a 2.5" HDD.
A X60 would be about what...$600.00~$700.00
Get a new 320 gig hard drive on newegg for $160.00
Get a external slim dvd-rw drive for what under $100.00
Even get a external 2.5" 320gig hard drive and even an extra battery and still be in way under 1500.00.

EDIT:thought you had 1500.00 to spend...

The X31 sounds like a good fit.
it's small,still powerfull,and put in a 250 gig internal drive + 250 gig external drive + dvd-rw drive + extra battery or two and still should be under 600.00

[rkawakami]

I'm curious as to how much CPU power you think you need. Will you be editing the images with Photoshop? There are other programs that can do about the same things and don't require the computing resources that Photoshop needs. Um, sorry, just realized.... linux you said... okay, you're probably using GIMP. What's the minimum CPU and memory for that program?

I was going to suggest something retro like a 500Mhz 600X. They're cheap (one of your points), rugged (another point) and have an Ultrabay where you could plug in a DVD+-RW drive (and not have to carry around a media slice or an external optical drive). You could also get an Ultrabay hard drive adapter for backups or data storage but you couldn't have the optical drive and the extra HD connected at the same time. You could splurge and get an expensive (and fairly rare) 650Mhz 600X and outfit it with a maximum of 576MB PC100 memory... which actually would be more expensive than the laptop itself .

Granted, Google Earth would probably run real slow on a 500Mhz 600X but how often are you going to be accessing it? What else would you be doing which requires the processing power of an X3 or X4 system?

[phool@round]

Here's a list you might be interested in once you decide; List.

[sz]

@SaberX - Yeah, the trip is going to be a blast. We've been dreaming about this for years. An X31/32 is probably highest on my list at the moment...I tend to agree with you, and the price point sounds ok. I only *wish* I was happy spending $1500 on this.

@rkawakami - I expect a fair amount of photo editing, with the gimp being the default program, although I should spend some time evaluating alternatives...I'm not sure what the baseline requirements are, but I suspect once a few 8 megapixel images gets loaded into memory the minimum usable RAM limit will jump

The 600x is an interesting thought, but pretty well out of the running if we want to use google earth, as that requires a minimum of 16MB of video RAM. I've used linux on lower-specced boxes for years, but that probably won't cut it on this trip. While I'm perfectly happy tweaking configs to get by with less RAM, transferring picture data back and forth to an external hard drive w/o USB 2.0 gets ugly fast, and with 802.11g showing up everywhere, a box that needs a cable to get on the net will be a hinderance rather than a help. I'm sure I could get CardBus cards to provide those, but then once again I'm carrying around more separate hardware and paying separately for options I might as well get built-in.

You bring up one of the biggest weaknesses of older boxes: It's hard to get enough memory in them so modern apps run well. I once owned a Mac IIfx (used), and 10 years after they went out of production, the cost of a memory upgrade was more than that for a new system. Right now DDR2 is so cheap, it's a big point in favor of the X41. 2GB/$50 is very appealing, and would make everything run much faster/more smoothly. It'd be ~$100 for the X3 series.

I'm ok with the price point of the X31/32, esp. if I can get a decent bargain on it. If I get one $cheap with a small internal drive, I'll replace that AND buy an external drive. The DVD burner problem is the biggest annoyance here, along with the concern that the minimal video RAM will come back to bite us when/if new releases of stuff like google earth come out. But.....X3s are cheaper than X4s, and from what I read, the internal drive on the X4s is really painfully slow. Moreover, I'm pretty resigned to the fact that if I get an X4 I'll have to buy an extended battery (negating most of its weight advantage over the X3 line).

The T4 series is both appealing and worrisome at the same time. I see a lot of mixed feedback reliability and sturdiness-wise for these. Moreover, dimensionally (HxW), they're (even the 14.1" models) noticeably bigger than the X series. Honestly, I suspect the extra depth of an ultrabay tacked on the bottom of an X3/X4 series might be LESS annoying/limiting than the extra HxW of the T4 series. If it were easier/cheaper to get a DVD burner in the ultrabase X3/X4 (and I've already read all about it on thinkwiki and checked fleabay for item availability and price), I'd be that much closer to done with this.

I wish I could just *buy* the 12" thinkpad with an integrated optical drive, ala Panasonic CF-W5, but once you get into this size range, everything integrated tends to be custom and $$$. And anything cheap tends to be built out of recycled toilet paper tubes.

In many ways I'd be happy with a much less powerful (and smaller) box, but the photography bit is driving most of the minimum requirements. I could try to drop below the X3 level capabilities and tweak the install for minimal memory/CPU usage (and I have plenty of experience with that), but I kind of doubt my wife is going to be all that happy launching her apps out of an xterm inside fvwm /twm/whatever like I am.



And I'm core-dumping on you guys again. Sorry! I appreciate the feedback; I've been stewing on this for weeks. You don't want to know how many hours I've spend reading reviews/cruising ebay/making cost/feature comparison spreadsheets. I'm just really looking for someone to either point out a flaw in my reasoning or an option I hadn't considered, which is what you were doing!

Thanks again!

sz

[sz]

After some more thought, I'm leaning towards one of the 14.1" models from the T4 series. The prices aren't bad, and with the right config, solves the:

* need a dvd burner (integrated, no extra power supply)
* takes standard 2.5" hard drives
* has sufficient graphics horsepower (even with the lowest-end options) to handle anything I would expect to throw at it.

Yes, it's a bit bigger than the X series...but once I get done adding the external dvd drive, I think the size comparison is pretty much a wash. I have to confess I'd really like the additional screen real estate of SXGA compared to XGA.

I've been reading lots of T4-series threads about flex and motherboard problems and was wondering if there was a consensus about which of the T4[0123][p] were the least subject to the issues with flex and motherboard/GPU failure.

sz

[rkawakami]

I believe the consensus is that the models with Intel graphics (e.g., 1871 T43s) are not as prone/immune(?) to the flexing/heat cycling problem. This thread probably has the answer but it's quite long:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=33952

Hmm... looking at the tabook it appears that the Intel GMA only comes with XGA screens .

[Brad]

Sound like fun!

I didn't think that the X4 series would work with DDR2 memory but I could be wrong.

I think the T4 would be an excellent choice. If you could find one with onsite service warranty or any warranty that would be very desirable. You don't want to have to reconfigure while on the road. These costs will add up very quickly.

I know it probably is not an option but a seocnd ThinkPad as a backup would minimize your downtime.

A year on the road will put your computer through a lot and anything can happen.

Also I was thinking of built in broadband but that wouldn't work outside of the US too well.

Brad

[ulrich.von.lich]

How about a used T60/T61?

They are much tougher than the T4s thanks to the rollcage protection. The T4 series are cursed by the GPU loose problem. Even if you buy a T4 with some warranty left, it'd be painful to call the local IBM/Lenovo to get it repaired. (different language, different working time, and sometimes they would even refuse to repair your US-based ThinkPad)

Here are

Pros:

- More abuse-proof (The T61 even has the rollcage for LCD.)
- More future-proof (Core Duo processors, PCI-E, new power plug, new docking port etc..)
- SATA HDDs (larger capacity for less money)
- More powerful graphics (way better than the ones used in X series)
- Not much more expansive than T4s
- No separated pieces to carry

Cons:

- Slightly heavier/bigger than the T4s (because of the rollcage), and of course much heavier than the X series
- Still more expansive than T4s (say $100 to $200 more? but the cheaper HDDs/RAM etc.. will make up for it)

Hope it helps!

Regards,
Tony

[pianowizard]

How about a used T60/T61?

They are much tougher than the T4s thanks to the rollcage protection. The T4 series are cursed by the GPU loose problem.

I totally agree. For this 1-year trip, it's important to get a really tough laptop and I don't think the T4* is tough enough. Get either a T6* or an X series.

[sz]

Yeah, you guys have come to essentially the same conclusion as me. I've loosened my price limit a little after thinking about how much we'll be using the laptop.

Out of the T4 series I'd ruled everything but the T43 out because of case flex, since its redesign seems to have reduced the incidence of GPU problems. Unfortunately, I still see some reports of that failure mode even with the T43, and given that the models from this line are much newer than the T4[012], we'll likely see more over time.

The T60's redesigned case with the internal rollcage sounds great and the reviews seem generally positive. RAM + hard drive choices are also a plus. The size and mass are creeping into a range I'm not really all that thrilled about, but I can live with it if need be.

The biggest downer of the T60 line is the quality of the screen, since there's no way I'm pushing past the 14.1" model for something I have to carry, and since that means I'm stuck with one of the 14.1" TN panels. I've read the discussion of panel types for the T60 and looked at some of the comparison photos, and have to confess I'm not all that thrilled, but it's hard to tell without examining one in person. If it weren't for the screen, I'd be pretty much ready to go with this.

I'd really still rather have a smaller laptop with an integrated drive, but that pretty much puts me in non-thinkpad land. Everything is a compromise on one level or another, of course. The following seem to be reasonable choices given the need for durability and lightness.

I have priced things out and I could probably get a T60 configured to my liking for ~$1000. (T60, 14.1" SXGA+, 250GB hard drive, 2GB RAM, DVD-burner)

Non-thinkpad contenders with integrated optical drives (all lighter and smaller than the T60):

* Panasonic CF-W5
+ Pretty much perfect, although the processor in the W5 sound a bit underpowered from all the reviews. ~3lbs, great battery life, 2.5" drive, decent selection of ports, frame designed for rigidity with good protection for the LCD. Sounds like a decent screen, too.
- ~$2000 and hard to find outside of expensive importers on eBay. I'm a little leery of the custom optical drive arrangement, but the reviews I've read indicate that it's solidly made and doesn't flex under your palms. Although if that drive breaks, Cthulhu help you getting it fixed. I could swap everything in and out of the T60 with my leatherman wave and a flat surface.

* Fujitsu P7120/7230/8010
+ lower-priced than the CF-W5. The P7120 is supposedly completely silent, which is a bonus for such a small system. Brighter screens than the T60, if the reviews are to be trusted.
- the P7120/7130 are stuck with the 1.8" drive form factor, a problem which kind of turned me off of the X40. I'd really like to stuff a 250GB drive in whichever laptop I get in addition to an external USB hard drive. Extra storage will make our lives a lot easier. Also, the P7120/7130 have sub-12" (10.6") screens in what is essentially a 12" form factor, which is a bit of a downer. Can't quite tell if the p8010 is as sturdy as the p7120/p7130, and it's price once configured soars into the ~$1800-$2000 range as well.

* HP nc2400/2510p
+ Looks a lot like HP's version of a thinkpad! Compact, possibly better screen than the T60, reviews indicate solid, durable construction. I see comments that the keyboard and trackpoint are not quite as nice, but still acceptable
- Cursed with the 1.8" hard drive form factor as well. And the 2510p drifts into the $1500+ range as well, once configured.

Am I missing any worthy contenders here?

Thanks again,

sz

[pianowizard]

I'd really still rather have a smaller laptop with an integrated drive, but that pretty much puts me in non-thinkpad land.

Yep, that rules out all the X-series Thinkpads except the X300, but with a price tag of over $2,000, I don't think that's what you want. On the other hand, the T series is too heavy to lug around for a full year. The only Thinkpad left that's worth considering is the 14.1" Z series, which is about half a pound lighter than the T series and has an integrated optical drive. But I have never used one and don't know whether it's as tough/reliable as the T6*.

HP nc2400/2510p

I have the HP nc2400 and the 1.8" hard drive doesn't feel that slow. I did a benchmark test and found that this hard drive performs almost as fast as a 2.5" 5400rpm drive. I agree that its original trackpoint isn't that good, but you can make it much better by replacing it with a Thinkpad trackpoint. If I were traveling around the world for a year, this would be the laptop of choice.

Am I missing any worthy contenders here?

How about the Dell XPS m1330? The Dell Outlet store has several for under $1000.

[qviri]

HP nc2400/2510p

I have the HP nc2400 and the 1.8" hard drive doesn't feel that slow. I did a benchmark test and found that this hard drive performs almost as fast as a 2.5" 5400rpm drive.

That is a bit of a stretch. Looking at your figures, and comparing them to a two-year-old 5400 rpm hard drive* (results), the HP's drive is 15% to 25% slower in terms of transfer rates and access time. Compared to a modern 5400 rpm hard drive** (results), its transfer rates are 50% lower, though the difference in access time isn't as dramatic at 25%. It does sport a respectable burst rate.

Whether it actually feels slow probably depends on the usage characteristics, the amount of RAM, and if it runs Vista...


* Samsung MP0603H, 60 GB, two platter, purchased in June 2005 when top of that line was 80 GB
** Seagate ST980815A, 80 GB, I believe one platter, purchased in May or June 2007 when top of that line was 160 GB

[sz]

Well, it looks like the T60 meets all of my requirements

* Rugged
* Somewhat small.
* Built-in DVD burner
* 2.5" laptop drives

Except for being a bit on the heavy end. I don't really expect that the 1/2 lb difference between it and the Z6 series is worth worrying about.

I'm already pushing the size and weight limits of what I want to carry, so I've pretty much restricted my consideration to the SXGA 14.1" models. This means, of course, that (short of hardware surgery I'd rather not do on a box I intend to carry around for months in regions far from IBM/Lenovo repair centers) I'm looking at either a Samsung, a Boese-Hydis, or a TMD display.

I've read several dozen threads in these forums about the relative merits and problems with these displays and concluded that I *really* don't want the TMD. It's hard deciding between the Samsung and the Boese-Hydis - even from the comparison pictures I've looked at - w/o seeing one in person. I suppose I can simply buy one, and if it's totally unacceptable for our uses, turn around and sell it, hopefully at not too much of a loss.

The real downer is that a major use of the laptop will involve photo management, and poor color reproduction + viewing angles are not going to help. I'm aware that I can do color profiling and adjust the display to some extent, but it's never going to look like my Sony SDM-P231b....

@pianowizard - you've used both 14.1" T60s and the HP nc2400, right? How do they compare screenwise? I've been digging for information on what panels were used on my non-thinkpad options, but a first-hand comparison of display quality would be really great.

Any other comparisons between the 14.1" T60 displays and those on the fujitsu p7120/7230/8010, panasonic cf-w5 / cf-y5, or the ibm nc2400 are also appreciated.

I do realize that searching the forums for information about display quality on any thinkpad model is going to turn up a lot of negative opinions, by the simple fact that the people who post are usually the ones having problems...but I still get the impression that the 14.1" T60 displays are no better than the 8-year-old sony vaio z505 I have sitting around, and that's rather depressing.

Thanks,

sz

[underclocker]

Have a great trip!

It looks like you quickly switched from a 12" machine to a 14" machine.

While you're using it, you'll be happy with the larger machine. While carrying it (the majority of the trip), you'll wish it weighed much less. EVERY OUNCE MATTERS!

Anyway, I've had many TP models, but now only travel with my X40. It weighs 2.7 lbs. However, I do have a spare 8 cell and spare extended battery (the one that attaches to the bottom), so I can bring along a runtime that suits my travel needs. Over 10 hours if necessary! The limitations of the X40 are well documented, 60GB drive capacity maximum and not that fast (compared to Core Duo machines).

For a 14" widescreeen format with an internal optical drive, I strongly suggest you take a look at the Z61t model! It's a 14.1" widescreen, available in a high resolution and much lighter than the T61 or R61 equivalent. They have been discountinued, but available on Lenovo's Outlet or eBay in NEW condition. They are very well built with either a T series rubberized cover finish or a titanium cover (this adds more weight!)

Here's a link to several on sale right now --> http://stores.channeladvisor.com/Lenovo ... %20Series/

(The machines are updated frequently, but sell fast.)

Again, the weights are great with the Z61t, from approx. 4.25 lbs. for 4 cell battery and no optical to approx. 5.25 lbs. for 7 cell and 3 cell UltraBay battery.

For very specific weight info, see this post --> http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=50922

Enjoy.

[pianowizard]

@pianowizard - you've used both 14.1" T60s and the HP nc2400, right? How do they compare screenwise?

Both look washed out and have very narrow viewing angles. Not a huge problem for me, but it probably would be for you.

I suspect the Dell m1330 has a better screen.

[pianowizard]

sz, if you're interested in getting a Dell XPS m1330, there's a 15% off coupon code, GS9TWR??SHD9TL, which is valid only for one day and can be used only on the Dell Outlet site. This code can be used for all Inspiron and XPS laptops.

[sz]

@Pianowizard - Thanks for the comparison between the nc2400 and T60 screens! It's very helpful, since screen quality + weight are the only remaining points that can sway me from the T60. As far as the Dell m1330 goes, the screen sounds nice, but the reviews I've read aren't exactly positive on build quality and fit/finish, so I'm a bit wary. But again, thanks for the pointer! I'm still considering my options.

Is there anyone in the Boulder, CO area with a T60 w/ either the 14.1" SXGA Samsung or the Boe-Hydis display who would be amenable to me taking a look at it? I'd buy you dinner, or if you prefer, at least bring you a beer. We're actually up nearer Estes Park, if anyone's curious.

sz

[farmer kev]

MOD EDIT: Please trim down your quoting when it comes to a very big post. Thank you!

Seems a shame to use your time on a wonderfull trip like this editing pics.
Here is my less than humble recomondations.

Go with the X-series, store pics on thumb drives and or memory cards, use the laptop to cull your images and showing your new friends where you have been. Have a backup laptop boxed and ready to ship in the hand of a trusted friend, if yours is lost, dies or stolen this will get you back up to speed.

What ever you do, please enjoy your trip!

[sz]

Hi Farmer Kev -

Yes, the trip should be a blast! Thanks for your well-wishes. The closer it gets, the more excited I am.

The amount of gadgetry I'm going to let myself haul around the world has been a real thinking point. I agree that it'd be a total waste to spend significant parts of our time in interesting, exotic locations staring at our laptop's screen.

I started out imagining us getting by with something as tiny as perhaps a nokia n800 + external hard drive. Over time that grew. We decided that we wanted to keep a fairly serious record of our trip - who knows if we'll ever do something like this again? Who knows if we'll want to try and write a book about our experiences? My wife determined to keep a somewhat comprehensive photographic record of the places we visit. We figure on lots of blog/journal entries. My handwriting is slow and awful; my typing is *quick*.

So I needed a keyboard and I'm looking at 1+ GB/day of pictures...I could just take something like the N800 with a bluetooth keyboard and a portable hard drive, but I'd rather not put all my eggs in one basket (the hard drive).
If I were to keep that much data on flash memory media by way of backup, I'm rapidly looking at several hundred dollars of flash all tied up with pictures to carry around.

DVD media is cheap and readily available. Unfortunately, as anyone who has ever tested burner/media compatibility (which I've had to do in a former professional life) will tell you, it can be a real mess. Depending on the random DVD drives in unknown condition in internet cafes to burn whatever media I can get ahold of is not exactly my idea of fun.

So if I need a tolerable keyboard to work on blog/journal entries and a reliable DVD burner to archive photos, I find myself back looking at something from the T6 series. If it wasn't for the DVD drive, I'd carry something lighter! But carrying a small laptop and an external burner doesn't come out much better weight-wise than a T60 and additionally introduces additional power supplies and cables to deal with.

I hope we don't spend a lot of time twiddling with a computer when we should be enjoying the visit wherever we are. I think that being well-equipped laptop-wise will help us avoid the hassle of spending hours searching out internet cafes and wrestling with their unknown and unfamiliar setups.

In any case, barring something like a Panasonic cf-w5[7] showing up on firesale, I think I've settled on getting one of the SXGA T6* models.

sz

[Nickolai]

[pianowizard]

In any case, barring something like a Panasonic cf-w5[7] showing up on firesale, I think I've settled on getting one of the SXGA T6* models.

Do you know about the 3.4-lb Panasonic Y5, which has SXGA+ and built-in optical drive? There are several "brand new" units on eBay with decent prices.

What is firesale?

Explained here.

[sz]

Pianowizard - I made a last-chance pass through eBay before I ordered the T61. I saw several Y5's for ~$1200 new, but none of them came with DVD burners - just the CDRW/DVD-ROM combo, which kills the deal for me. The integrated optical drive in the design pretty much makes swapping out for the burner difficult, if not impossible, agt least according to the googling I did, and I'm not sure where you'd get what's probably a rather non-standard part.

I know - I'd live to trim the kit's weight by nearly 2 lbs, but if I can just get a T61 with a decent 14.1" Samsung screen, I'll count myself lucky.

Thanks for the heads-up, though. Hope Lenovo gets my order shipped soon so I can evaluate the results.

sz