My Battery Replacement Write-up NOT needed... See Jay's

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makai · #1 Post by **makai** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:28 am

Hi all,

I was going to write up my X31 battery cell replacement procedure, but during some research, I found this...

http://www.summet.com/blog/2007/02/17/l ... ry-refill/

I don't know if Jay is a member here, (I searched for any hits on his webpage topic), but whether he is or not, I found his page interesting. There are 3 pages total, so look near the bottom of each page (before the comments) and you'll see the page links.

The only difference in what Jay did and what I did, is that he used 3rd party batteries, and I used new T4x batteries... basically, the same type originally in my X31 battery. The battery meter results were exactly like Jay saw and currently, I'm going to run them through a charge/recharge cycle to see if I can coax the meter to start reporting correctly... we'll see. By the way, rather than use a special tool like Jay did, I just used a guitar pick (Fender medium) to open the battery cases.

Just wanted to pass this on for those interested.

makai

bobbarker · #2 Post by **bobbarker** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:08 pm

It's a good one (where I went for info on mine) but what is needed is at least a mentioning of how to open the casing of the battery. I've found using stiff gift cards going around the edges and prying with your fingers works decently. I saw someone mention using a guitar pick, which I'm sure works the same (if not better).

makai · #3 Post by **makai** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:48 pm

Yah, the guitar pick works well. I've been using guitar picks for a long time while repairing ipods. However, I've found that some X31 batteries are built differently. The one I'm currently working on had "exposed" locking tabs. Basically, you could actually see where the locks were on the edges (power connector side only). The other X31 battery I have, you can't see anything. I guess we have a case of different manufacturing vendors. The second battery seems a bit more difficult to open, but I haven't really given it a good go yet.

As an update to how my battery cell replacement is going...

When I first got into this, I did it for the reason that X31 batteries are few and far between. My battery meter was "red" with 200 cycle count and max level 16.64. The battery lasted only 1 hr 10 min... not good for any kind of realistic mobile computing!

Once I determined that a T4x 6-cell battery used the same size batteries as my X31, I went hunting on ebay for a "new" T4x 6-cell. I was lucky to find one and the vendor actually has 10 more... of which I will purchase one more to use as replacements for another X31 battery I have.

Anyway, after replacing the batteries, Battery Maximizer still showed "red", 16.64 max. So I ran the X31 in "Disable Shutoff Timers" mode to drain the battery completely.

The X31 died after a while and then I charged it up again. This time Battery Maximizer read the battery condition as "yellow", with 19.92 as max.

It seems the process is working for getting the battery back to rated level, although I still have a ways to go. I am currently draining the battery again with Disable Shutoff timers, to see where it goes. I have a feeling this will work out and I'll keep this tread updated.

makai

bobbarker · #4 Post by **bobbarker** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:39 pm

I've actually got my battery open atm, getting the new cells in there. Hope to start charging/discharging to get the circuits used to it.
Try using a program to run your CPU/GPU hard and drain the battery quicker.

One thing I've found odd is linux reports my battery as having a design charge of 4750 mAh, but the outside of the battery says 4400 mAh and the cells themselves add up to 4400 mAh. Circuit thinks the battery is better than it actually is.

makai · #5 Post by **makai** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:42 am

I did run a few progs to try to drain the battery quicker, but then that only caused the temp to rise... so I stopped. I decided that just letting the battery drain on it's own was overall better for the laptop. Besides, it's not like I have anywhere to go!

Same thing here... Battery is being read as 4750mAh when it used to be 4400mAh. That's fine with me!

bobbarker · #6 Post by **bobbarker** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:47 am

I know you're not on linux but if any X31/linux owner happens to be rebuilding their battery right now...

These commands will make your processor run at full speed (instead of slowing down to 600mhz):

Code: Select all

sudo echo userspace >/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor

sudo echo 1600000 >/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_setspeed

On the last command there, the 1600000 is 1600mhz with an extra three zeros (the command likes the three zeros, dunno why). Obviously if your proc is 1.4ghz make it 1400000, and so on.

This command (assuming you have a tool called rovclock) overclock your video card...you don't have to do this and I'd recommend against it unless you manually turn your fans all the way up to allow for the increase in heat. **If you don't have rovclock check apt-get, yum or whatever package manager you use, it's likely there (it is for Ubuntu).

Code: Select all

sudo rovclock -c 200 -m 200

That sets the core speed and memory speed to 200mhz (up from the default 144mhz). I've done some testing and 200 is the stablest overclock speed I've been able to reach.

None of those changes are permanent and they all disappear after a reboot (or if you change them back). They might even disappear after a ctrl+alt+bkspce, I'm unsure.

makai · #7 Post by **makai** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:20 pm

Update...

After draining the battery again, and just after plugging in the AC adapter for another charge, I checked the Battery information/health and it indicates a "green" condition, with 23.69wH rating.

I guess what's happening is that the battery electronics is "learning" by "discharge" time. Very weird, but nonetheless, quite interesting and pleasing results so far.

Will update again.

(edited to explain things a little better)

bobbarker · #8 Post by **bobbarker** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:19 pm

My battery isn't charging....

present: yes
capacity state: ok
charging state: charged
present rate: 0 mW
remaining capacity: 6280 mWh
present voltage: 11475 mV

is what my computer reports. The voltages are higher than the normal 10800...
I've been watching all this (and temps inside the bat) with a little autorefresh script and it doesn't change (temp fluxes up and down a degree or two from 24-27c).

#9 Post by **gator** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:39 pm

nomo · #10 Post by **nomo** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:47 pm

bobbarker wrote:My battery isn't charging....
(snip)

exactly my problem. see this thread: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=59229

if you find a solution, please let me know.

makai · #11 Post by **makai** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:35 pm

My battery isn't charging....

According to what you wrote, and if I'm reading it right, your laptop thinks the battery is fully charged. Is the battery indicator at the bottom of the LCD "green", and can you run the laptop on batteries alone? If you can, try running the laptop until it dies and then see if it will charge up.

bobbarker · #12 Post by **bobbarker** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:07 pm

Well what it's showing is the battery has 6280 mWh left (instead of 44000).
The battery unfortunately will not power the laptop. I've checked everything with a meter. The circuit is reading the cells properly (verified) but upon checking the +/- of the circuit (where it gives power to the laptop) it's not giving anything at all. I'm guessing somehow the circuit has died...or refuses to give voltage.

Since the last post the mWh has gone down to 6160 mWh. My battery meter (it's blue...guess Caonical decided it'd be pretty

) says it's at 52%, which would be true considering the max mWh was previously 11000 something...which should mean about half an hour of run time, but since the battery isn't giving anything (and I suppose not taking) nothing is happening. The circuit just seems dead (or partially dead). I'm going to let it sit for a few hours to see if anything amazing happens....

edit:
It's worth noting the BIOS knows something...the battery light is flashing yellow....I guess the computer itself knows the voltage coming out of the battery is nothing.

makai · #13 Post by **makai** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:32 pm

"A battery appearing dead" happened to me several times with new batteries. What I had to do is unplug the AC and replug again, several times.

In fact, right after I refilled my battery, I got similar symptoms. The battery indicator kept blinking amber as if the battery wasn't there. I measured the battery with a voltmeter and nothing! I thought I wired it up incorrectly, but after checking it, it was right. I put it back together and measured it again... and nothing! Huh??? I'm an engineer so I was quite confused!

I then decided to just let the battery sit in the laptop with the AC connected for about 15 minutes. Then I unplugged and replugged several times. Right after the last replug, the battery indicator flashed 3 times and went to a steady amber. I checked the charging current and it was low, but it was beginning to charge. After a while, the charge current went up and the rest is history.

This wasn't an isolated case for me. This happened several times with new IBM OEM batteries off ebay. Apparrently, if the batteries are totally dead, or the laptop thinks it's dead, the only way to get it going again is to do what I wrote above. Anyways, that's how it's been for me.

Good luck, I hope you get it going!

bobbarker · #14 Post by **bobbarker** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:22 am

GREAT tip! I was fiddling with it like you said and I got it to stay solid for 3 or 4 seconds until it started blinking again. I shall continue fiddling!

makai · #15 Post by **makai** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:24 pm

bobbarker... I hope your "fiddling" works!

Update...

Battery Health = 28.62

Appears to have jumped just a little. It may be because I plugged in to check out the meter right after it died. Currently running through another cycle, but will let it sit for a while before pluggin in and checking the health again.

bobbarker · #16 Post by **bobbarker** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:02 am

Apart from the few seconds earlier it's not done anything yet. I'm gonna just let it sit here for awhile hooked up and then try fiddling again.

bobbarker · #17 Post by **bobbarker** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:47 pm

Double post

I'm guessing why the battery is doing this in the first place is when I took it apart originally it was in fact fully charged then...so it still thinks it is...maybe?

makai · #18 Post by **makai** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:44 pm

Gee, I hope you get it working. I wonder what would happen if you pulled the wires off for a while and tried again.

Update...

Battery health = 34.82, next discharge/charge = 41.43

Battery will max out at 47.53... possibly 2 more cycles. Battery currently lasting approx 4.5 hrs running maxed out on CPU, with wireless on before it turns itself off. I'm not doing anything on it while it's discharging though, just letting it go.

bobbarker · #19 Post by **bobbarker** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:15 pm

That's my next (and only) step is to unhook the circuit and let it all sit.
The fiddling did occasionally have the light sit steady for a few seconds, but then it would start blinking again.

It's good to know the battery has some serious potential when they work

makai · #20 Post by **makai** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:13 am

Yup, I think I will always do the batteries myself from now on. I was lucky enough to find a new T4x battery, and I will look for that again if I need to. Probably by the time both my X31 batteries die, I'll have to look for some other OEM batts... like Sony, etc, as long as the specs are correct.

If you pull the wires, you might want to make sure you pull the positive (+) first, then the neg (-). When you connect up again, positive (+) gets connected last. Much like when you jump a car... you always connect the ground first. Just common practice... to do with inrush current.

Good luck!

makai · #21 Post by **makai** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:51 pm

Update...
Well the Battery Health is now reporting 49.32 (?). It somehow has passed the 47.53 rated value, although I don't know why.

Just to recap... it started from 16.64 with "red" condition and went to...
16.64 to 19.92 (condition yellow)
19.92 to 23.69 (condition green)
23.69 to 28.62 (green)
28.62 to 34.82 (green)
34.82 to 41.43 (green)
41.43 to 49.32 (green)

Current time on machine is approx +5hrs with no wireless, screen brightness all the way down. With wireless, and browsing the net, looks to be about 4.1 - 4.5 hrs, and varying. It's worthwhile to note that the laptop will actually run over 6 hrs before it dies if left to it's own on Max performance.

I have to do some work on the laptop tonight, so will use it normally until I'm done, then discharge with Disable Shut off timers. I'm curious to see how high the Battery Heath will go.

makai

lightweight · #22 Post by **lightweight** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:18 am

Well the Battery Health is now reporting 49.32 (?). It somehow has passed the 47.53 rated value, although I don't know why.

My new batteries always measure higher than rated according to acpi. I have always assumed the cells rating is some guaranteed nominal number. Over time and cycles last capacity mwH drops as expected.

Ditto gator. Great thread.

makai · #23 Post by **makai** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:47 am

It's not so much that I haven't seen a battery exceed the max capacity value, I just wasn't expecting it to be that much higher (49.32). But, the main reason it surprised me is that before I swapped the T4x cells into the X31 case, I had charged up the batteries in my T41, and the max capacity and the full charge capacity both read the same... 47.53.

In any case, battery health full charge cap now reports 51.92. I wonder if the battery electronics is whacked! Regardless though, the battery meter is reporting over 6 hrs (no wireless)... and 4.5 - 5+ hrs with wireless while I'm typing this and have been surfing a bit too. What might be helping is that I always run battery optimized (600mhz only) whenever I'm on battery power, so that probably has a bearing. So, needless to say, I'm extremely happy with the results of the battery swap.

and I'll do it again in the future! Also, good to note that when the batteries were in the T41, the battery meter was over 6hrs fully charged. Of course, I'm no fool to believe the battery meter, but considering I started with a battery that only lasted 1 hr 10 mins...

bobbarker · #24 Post by **bobbarker** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:13 pm

Sweet Jesus! I really need to get my battery working! Any time above 4 hours would thrill me!

EDIT:
Unhooked wires and rehooked. First time I plugged it in my little monitoring script said 'charging' for a split second then went to charged...I'll try the fiddling now that it's been 'rehooked' but I've lost all hope for this battery.

double edit:
I'm going to take my new cells out and try and get that batteryrefill.com place to put new cells in and see if they somehow manage to do something completely different.

makai · #25 Post by **makai** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:33 pm

Just a little curious...

If you open up the pack, do you measure any voltage across the individual pairs? You should get about 3-4 volts across each battery pair. It's strange that you don't measure anything at the output pins on the connector. It almost seems the output has been disabled by the electronics. Now why would they design that into the battery?

Also, I don't know if this is the case with you, but when I put my batteries in, I noted that the back of the connector pins (battery output pins) were sort of piercing one of the batteries. I don't know if there was an actual short, but I could see indentations on the plastic sheath of the battery. Might be something to look at on yours.

Sorry you're having so much trouble! Bummers!!!

makai

bobbarker · #26 Post by **bobbarker** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:51 pm

I remember checking induvidual pairs and getting ~3.8 volts. I have noticed that the plastic casing is very fragile. When removing the old cells I had a few sparks. I've had a *few* nicks in the new ones but I've put pieces of electrical tape over them to prevent it. Very end of the big cell is 11.4 volts (the internal circuits report 1140millivolts (same thing, meh)). I've come to the conclusion that the circuit is causing all this...for some reason. I've got one last thing to try then I'm going to go for the 'battery refill' place.

bobbarker · #27 Post by **bobbarker** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:30 pm

batteryrefill.com wrote:We can refill your battery even without the old cells.

I guess I'll try their thing since mine doesn't work.

makai · #28 Post by **makai** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:33 pm

Don't know how true it is, but I've heard many bad things about batteryrefill. Mostly related to the amount of time they take to get a job done. I guess ymmv.

bobbarker · #29 Post by **bobbarker** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:16 am

That's why I went the DIY route which didn't end up working. Since I don't have a working battery period it's just like not having it for two weeks

. Other than taking their sweet ol' time the only other bad thing I've heard were poor case openings, which I'll just send the battery already opened so I don't have to worry about that.

frankiepankie · #30 Post by **frankiepankie** » Tue May 27, 2008 12:03 pm

Maybe you guys can use this nifty linux CD and LPT port adapter schematics to reset the battery fuelgauge IC (the chip which monitors the battery condition).

I don't know which chip is used in the X31 battery, but maybe you are lucky and that it uses the BQ2040 chip or BQ2092 chip.

Good luck!

My Battery Replacement Write-up NOT needed... See Jay's

My Battery Replacement Write-up NOT needed... See Jay's

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