Vista Business 32-bit. cannot run chkdsk

[chem]

I have a R61 with all the latest ThinkVantage updates and all the Windows updates -- but NOT SP1. I just set up the laptop this Sunday and did all the updates, Vista Business 32-bit.

I cannot run chkdsk. I guess this is because of the new version of R&R? Is there a way to get chkdsk to work without uninstalling R&R? What's worse is that, it tries to run chkdsk every single boot and fails! This is DRIVING ME NUTS. Please, anyone, help?

I cannot install SP1 via Windows Update, because of the X3100 graphics driver blocker (see stickied Vista thread in this forum). Lenovo still has not released an updated driver. I do not want to install the standalone version out of vague fears of it causing problems with ThinkVantage or other lenovo-specific stuff.


MOD EDIT: Split off from another thread.

[steveh]

I cannot run chkdsk. I guess this is because of the new version of R&R? Is there a way to get chkdsk to work without uninstalling R&R? What's worse is that, it tries to run chkdsk every single boot and fails! This is DRIVING ME NUTS. Please, anyone, help?

If you do not wish to get rid of R & R then the only way to run chkdsk and clear the dirty bit flag is to boot into safe mode and then chkdsk will run and clear the flag.

R & R is not really a great program and aprt from the fact that it was bundled with your ThinkPad I would recommend Acronis True Image, which does all the R & R does and much more.
HTH,
Steve

[chem]

If you do not wish to get rid of R & R then the only way to run chkdsk and clear the dirty bit flag is to boot into safe mode and then chkdsk will run and clear the flag.

Steveh,

I tried that, and booting into safe mode failed! It locked up on loading crcdisk.sys. I googled a bit and apparently this is a common problem, but it's usually caused by extra unsupported SATA boot devices, or installing DAEMON tools. I have neither. Not being able to boot into safe mode is entirely unacceptable. The chkdsk problem still persists too.

Any ideas on the crcdisk.sys issue with Thinkpads? This has gone from bad to worse.

[steveh]

I tried that, and booting into safe mode failed! It locked up on loading crcdisk.sys. I googled a bit and apparently this is a common problem, but it's usually caused by extra unsupported SATA boot devices, or installing DAEMON tools. I have neither. Not being able to boot into safe mode is entirely unacceptable. The chkdsk problem still persists too.

I should have mentioned that yo need to boot to safe mode, no network support. You will not have a gui or screen that shows the progress of the chkdsk, but when finished it will reboot. If you asked for chkdsk with the /f or /r switch it can take up to an hour.

Your other alternative is to disable the TVTUMON services on a temporary basis and let chkskd run then re enable these services. They are the services that are installed by R & R.

Steve

[steveh]

I tried that, and booting into safe mode failed! It locked up on loading crcdisk.sys. I googled a bit and apparently this is a common problem, but it's usually caused by extra unsupported SATA boot devices, or installing DAEMON tools. I have neither. Not being able to boot into safe mode is entirely unacceptable. The chkdsk problem still persists too.

I should have mentioned that you need to boot to safe mode, no network support. You will not have a gui or screen that shows the progress of the chkdsk, but when finished it will reboot. If you asked for chkdsk with the /f or /r switch it can take up to an hour.

Your other alternative is to disable the TVTUMON services on a temporary basis and let chkskd run then re enable these services. They are the services that are installed by R & R.

Steve

[chem]

Well, I eventually settled on another solution: nuking Lenovo's install from orbit.

With Lenovo's install, after getting everything updated except SP1 via ThinkVantage/Windows Update, I had a system that could not run chkdsk (due to ThinkVantage R&R), could not install SP1 (via Windows Update, as stated), and could not even boot to safe mode (failure/hang at crcdisk.sys, a SATA driver -- google for other reports). Insane.

I ended up biting the bullet, finding some OEM discs from our department, and performing a fresh install using the guide from notebookreview.com (to preserve your OEM key). I used the official Intel chipset, matrix AHCI, and graphics drivers. I added a few other Lenovo drivers. Avoided ThinkVantage.

The system now boots about 3x faster, is much more responsive, can run chkdsk, can boot to safe mode, and is installing SP1 via Windows Update as I type this.

Lenovo's crapware is a ridiculous shame. I like the hardware, but will probably not be buying another Lenovo.

[Ken Fox]

Well, I eventually settled on another solution: nuking Lenovo's install from orbit.

I ended up biting the bullet, finding some OEM discs from our department, and performing a fresh install using the guide from notebookreview.com (to preserve your OEM key). I used the official Intel chipset, matrix AHCI, and graphics drivers. I added a few other Lenovo drivers. Avoided ThinkVantage.

The system now boots about 3x faster, is much more responsive, can run chkdsk, can boot to safe mode, and is installing SP1 via Windows Update as I type this.

Lenovo's crapware is a ridiculous shame. I like the hardware, but will probably not be buying another Lenovo.

There is an easier way, something I do with each new Thinkpad I get. That is to immediately burn a recovery disk set when I take delivery, then boot up into the service partition (blue button on boot up), and to do a "custom" or "selective" disk restore to factory contents. I deselect most of the optional stuff such as everything Norton, and most, but not all of the Thinkvantage applications. In the case of Thinkvantage apps that I want, I check the installed versions to see if they are close to being current; if not, I deselect them from the list and reinstall the current ones later by downloading them from the Lenovo website.

Lenovo gives you an option that very few other mfrs. do with the selective disk restore choice. You can get what is relatively close to a clean install without monkeying with installation disks or any of the other stuff mentioned in that notebookreview.com post. If you deselect everything in the custom restore, you will get [censored] close (but not quite) to a clean install, no muss no fuss.

I always choose to NOT install System Update in the selective restore, since it is always going to be an older version than what you can download. Unlike some people here, I am finding that a lot of the bugs have been worked out of the current version of System Update, and I generally will install that once the selective restore is finished. I've found the 3.13 version of System Update to be quite helpful and to save me a lot of time, as long as I am selective in what I let it install, and avoid potential problems like letting it update both Access Connection and the Wireless Card drivers in the same session.

[RoadHazard]

The system now boots about 3x faster, is much more responsive, can run chkdsk, can boot to safe mode, and is installing SP1 via Windows Update as I type this.

Well, the chkdsk issue aside, your system will be this fast only if you intend to keep it that way. It's a fresh OS install so it's supposed to be fast. Once you start installing more software, it will become slower. But of course, a fresh install will surely get rid of the chkdsk problem so that by itself gives enough reason to do it.

[chem]

Ken, that is good info -- I did not know that could be done. I wonder if it would save time versus just doing a clean Vista install from non-Lenovo discs. Maybe a bit.

RoadH -- I definitely plan on keeping the system clean and fast. The important part is, I'm starting from a much better point than how Lenovo ships the machine.

I am somewhat amazed that Lenovo actually sells a product which, after running the standard, recommended ThinkVantage and Windows updates, cannot run chkdsk or boot to safe mode. Those are two rather important troubleshooting tools -- and the normal user wouldn't even realize the problem until they really NEEDED to use those tools.

I mean, who is doing Lenovo's QA management?? Or who decided to allow the software to be shipped like this? They should be fired.

[Ken Fox]

Ken, that is good info -- I did not know that could be done. I wonder if it would save time versus just doing a clean Vista install from non-Lenovo discs. Maybe a bit.

RoadH -- I definitely plan on keeping the system clean and fast. The important part is, I'm starting from a much better point than how Lenovo ships the machine.

I am somewhat amazed that Lenovo actually sells a product which, after running the standard, recommended ThinkVantage and Windows updates, cannot run chkdsk or boot to safe mode. Those are two rather important troubleshooting tools -- and the normal user wouldn't even realize the problem until they really NEEDED to use those tools.

I mean, who is doing Lenovo's QA management?? Or who decided to allow the software to be shipped like this? They should be fired.

If past experience is any guide, Lenovo will ultimately fix these bugs in their software. Lenovo is probably better than most of the other notebook producers when it comes to this sort of stuff. For an example, my friend's HP tablet came so full of bloatware that it would almost not run at all. His notebook does not offer the selective restore to factory contents option that Lenovo does in the service partition. He spent a very long time on the internet trying to find out how to get rid of all the crapware shipped in his system and he still has issues,

Certainly, one can use guides like that one on notebookreview.com on how to do a clean install, but the truth of the matter is that the average notebook buyer would not have the technical saavy nor the time to actually do that. Lenovo offers an easy approach that many users can get to obtain a nearly clean installation. We should acknowledge that and thank them for offering that.

[chem]

Certainly, one can use guides like that one on notebookreview.com on how to do a clean install, but the truth of the matter is that the average notebook buyer would not have the technical saavy nor the time to actually do that. Lenovo offers an easy approach that many users can get to obtain a nearly clean installation. We should acknowledge that and thank them for offering that.

I respectfully disagree. Their "easy" approach involves booting to a hidden partition using a special key and then doing a selective restore which involves considerable user judgment. That is fine for me and you, but not fine for the "average" user, who doesn't even know what a partition is, or what the difference is between ThinkVantage System Update and Windows Update.

Lenovo should ship a system that is fully functional when updated via ThinkVantage and Windows Update. If not, they have failed their customer and deserve to be lambasted for it. We pay them to produce a system, and do not need to be thankful for an alternative way to pick up the crumbs after their mistakes.

[Kyocera]

Lenovo should ship a system that is fully functional when updated via ThinkVantage and Windows Update. If not, they have failed their customer (snip)

And... if.... and... when, enough of the "have failed their customer" happens they will pay the price through sales.

Our thinkpad issues are important to us (hence this forum) and I'm always thankful when I pull a new machine out of the box and it boots successfully. More thankful when there is no dead pixels, dents, etc. But am not naive enough to think I'm going to get a perfect one every time, don't think that is realistic and right now after so many years the odds are against me .

[Ken Fox]

Lenovo should ship a system that is fully functional when updated via ThinkVantage and Windows Update. If not, they have failed their customer and deserve to be lambasted for it. We pay them to produce a system, and do not need to be thankful for an alternative way to pick up the crumbs after their mistakes.

Let me see if I've got this right: Lenovo should make this perfect system for you, and sell it to you (after various online coupons and rebates) for a price that is not much more than the cost of the internal components should you buy them as parts. They should bundle this with perfect software that works all the time and never causes anyone a problem even though each user will install other software and otherwise customize their systems in ways that no manufacturer can anticipate, and all for this price that barely covers costs (if that). They should provide you with 24/7 support should you have any after sales problems.

The only issue I have with your suggestions is that Lenovo is almost certainly not profitable providing you with what they now provide. It is only due to the deep pockets of their patron (e.g. the Chinese government) that this company continues as a going concern. How they continue to produce machines of the same quality level as IBM did, at prices 1/4 of what they used to be, is amazing to me. For those of you too young to remember, it was not that long ago that a decent notebook computer cost $4000, and those dollars were worth a lot more back then than they are today.

But you want more, what they are providing you with now is not enough for your dollars. I suggest you buy another brand, so that you can become more familiar with what else is out there in the marketplace. I doubt you will find perfection, but perhaps you will become a bit more realistic.

[chem]

But you want more, what they are providing you with now is not enough for your dollars. I suggest you buy another brand, so that you can become more familiar with what else is out there in the marketplace. I doubt you will find perfection, but perhaps you will become a bit more realistic.

Give me a break. You're talking like a diehard fanboy, not a consumer. I pay money for a computer. I expect certain basic things -- like, say, being able to run chkdsk or boot to safe mode -- to WORK. If they do not, they have failed me, their consumer. I am old enough to remember when the Apple IIc was your "portable" computer, okay?

I have bought other brands. I tried Lenovo this time because of the reputation of the build quality of the Thinkpad line. The build quality was acceptable. I am unimpressed with their software install. Not being able to run two of the most basic Windows troubleshooting tools (chkdsk and safe mode boot) out of the box displays incredible lack of QA testing and/or judgment on Lenovo's part.

[Ken Fox]

I have bought other brands. I tried Lenovo this time because of the reputation of the build quality of the Thinkpad line. The build quality was acceptable. I am unimpressed with their software install. Not being able to run two of the most basic Windows troubleshooting tools (chkdsk and safe mode boot) out of the box displays incredible lack of QA testing and/or judgment on Lenovo's part.

Their software varies from good to bad (and worse). The "worse" would be the old "PC Doctor 5" episode from last year that removed the uninstall information needed to uninstall the programs on your computer which required a whole lot of people here to have to start from scratch with recovery disks and reload all their software . . . . .

I'd rate these current problems you reference as being about a "5" on a scale of 1-10.

It is very likely that you don't even need rescue and recovery; unless you travel with your computer and need the ability to restore your system from a backup, without access to disks and other materials, you (and many others) would be best served by simply uninstalling R&R and relying on 3rd party tools such as disk imaging programs for backups. Uninstalling R&R will presumably recover the functionality you miss, from chkdsk. You will still have the R&R service partition functionality should you need it.

I hesitate to defend Lenovo's software, and I've complained (here and elsewhere) about a lot of it. If you don't need any particular applications, do not install them or make a point of uninstalling them. That is the safest approach to any software installation on any computer, regardless of who wrote the software.