T61p - battery freeze problem

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amstel78 · #1 Post by **amstel78** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:54 pm

Hello all,

I'm a new 14.1" T61p owner, and have a problem with the machine freezing on battery power.

I've done some tests, and have noticed that this problem occurs when certain variables are in play:

1. Turbo Memory is installed and working
2. Windows Hybrid Disk Power Saver is on
3. Using the Intel 4965AGN wifi connection
4. APS is turned on
5. Running on battery

The weird thing is, I can definitely cause the computer to lock if all of the 5 previously mentioned variables are true. For example, if I'm surfing the web, and pick up the computer and shake it so that APS pauses the hard drive while Vista is writing to Turbo Memory, the system will lock up.

However, I brought my laptop to my office today and could not replicate the problem. The only difference there was that I used a hard-line LAN connection instead of wireless to gain network access. I could not recreate the freeze under those conditions.

I know the popular work around for this problem is to disable the Hybrid Disk Power Saver, or a combination of other things. I do find these solutions though to be less than ideal.... in order to gain a reliable laptop, one has to lose a certain amount of functionality.

I've updated all of my drivers. I'm even running on SP1. I've done everything I possibly could think of short of re-imaging the machine. Can any one provide some input as to why this is doing this, and how can it permanently be corrected without compromising something else?

Thanks,
James

#2 Post by **ryengineer** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:21 am

IMHO Turbo Memory is one of the worst offerings I've seen in recent times, even with proper drivers installed and tweaks applied users still complain about lockups and BSOD's.

One possible solution is to physically remove the Logic Cache completely from your thinkpad, it's installed in the WWAN slot, performance wise you won't find any significant decline in speed, in fact maxing out your RAM is better than having Turbo Memory:

Mini PCI removal movie - ThinkPad T60/p. [look for this (red colored component) with no antennas]

amstel78 · #3 Post by **amstel78** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:29 am

Hi Ryengineer,

I understand that the technology is still in its infancy. However, I guess what I'm trying to understand is why some with T61's with Turbo Memory and Vista never have any problems, while others do.

Obviously there are differences in computer configurations, but is this freeze a hardware issue or a software one? If it's software, then there's hope that improvised drivers and support from Vista will be forthcoming. If it's a hardware problem, then that's a different story.

I paid money to have Turbo Memory for its benefits (if any). Like wise, I expect a reasonable amount of functionality in return. Having to disable energy management features is not something I'm enthusiastic about just to get this thing to work.

I do most of my work on battery, and in the field. My research utilizes programs which rely heavily on OpenGL and large amounts of data which are cached and processed quickly. Every minute of battery life counts, and the Turbo Memory in my case does help improve my application's responsiveness.

XIII · #4 Post by **XIII** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:44 pm

I have never had any problem with Turbo Memory.
I updated all the related driver to the latest version on the Lenovo website. Do not use the driver straight from Intel. They have not been tested on Thinkpad and can cause some problems.

amstel78 · #5 Post by **amstel78** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:45 pm

XIII wrote:I have never had any problem with Turbo Memory.
I updated all the related driver to the latest version on the Lenovo website. Do not use the driver straight from Intel. They have not been tested on Thinkpad and can cause some problems.

Can you tell me whether or not you have Hybrid Disk Power Savings Mode enabled in Windows Power Profiles, and if you have APS on? If so, do you use your computer mostly on AC power, or battery? Do you also move your computer while it's on, or does it sit on a desk all of the time?

You see, the problem only happens if the computer is moved while the Turbo Memory is being written to from the hard drive. My theory is that APS stops the drive if motion is detected, but Windows is still waiting for data to be written to the TM. When that happens, Vista goes into an internal wait loop that can't be interrupted except by shutting the PC off.

Apart from that, I have no problems with TM if the computer isn't moved at all....

XIII · #6 Post by **XIII** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:27 pm

I have hybrid drive option enabled in the power setting and installed active protection as well but I have not experienced any freezes or hiccup. I run mainly on battery also, with TM, I get 6.5 hours on battery on average on my X61t. Without TM, I get about 5:30 to 5:40 hours. So, TM really does help battery life.

Sometimes, the HD light goes on solid for around 3 sec, which make the computer appears to be freeze. However, I studied the behavior of hybrid hard drive a bit and concluded that it is due the synchronization between the NAND cache used for ReadyDrive and the main hard drive, not random lockups like you described.

XIII · #7 Post by **XIII** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:36 pm

Oh, I moved the computer when the synchronization happens but Vista has never locked up on me.

Stanze · #8 Post by **Stanze** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:19 am

My T60 froze on me 6 times yesterday at work. One of my fellow techs said he's seen this problem and a new battery resolved it. Even though my hi-cap battery is only a month old I replaced it with a brand new one from our stock room; took my laptop home, fully charged it and so far no freezes. I've only monitored it for a few hours, but when it was freezing, it happened minutes after booting.

amstel78 · #9 Post by **amstel78** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:51 am

Hmm, very strange. Not sure what to make of this then. I used the computer for about 4 hours yesterday evening on battery, but no freeze as I made sure to not move the computer.

I don't believe this to be a battery problem either. I'm actually running on two batteries; 9 cell and ultrabay.

Perhaps I should restore the system and see what happens?

XIII · #10 Post by **XIII** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:52 pm

I do a fresh Vista SP1 installation and then install drivers to make this system trouble-free. I do recall to have some freezing problem with vanilla Vista.

amstel78 · #11 Post by **amstel78** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:01 pm

Looks like I got the problem solved. Had to do clean install of Vista by using the system restore function. I also did not update to all of the latest drivers available from Lenovo. Seems that installing all of the updates available for download screws things up.

cabezon · #12 Post by **cabezon** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:04 pm

What did you not install from the Lenovo updates?
I have exactly the same problem with a 15" T61p, freezes when walking around on battery power with wireless and TurboMemory.

zaunere · #13 Post by **zaunere** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:38 pm

amstel78 wrote:Looks like I got the problem solved. Had to do clean install of Vista by using the system restore function. I also did not update to all of the latest drivers available from Lenovo. Seems that installing all of the updates available for download screws things up.

amstel, I have the exact same problem, and it appears as though we have almost the exact same hardware. It certainly does seem to be a problem when the laptop physically moves. I do notice the sync process when on battery power that makes the system lock for a minutes. But sometimes, it locks solid, and I must do a hard boot.

I've done two installs of Vista (the machine originally came with XP).

Does anyone have any guidance on the drivers/etc combination to use or not install?

T61p - battery freeze problem

T61p - battery freeze problem

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