About flexview screens..

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tockki · #1 Post by **tockki** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:26 am

Before I make a flexview purchase of a T60 sxga+ ATI 1400X, I wanted to make sure that it is highly unlikely that Lenovo will put out one in their new upcoming Thinkpad lines. $1100 was the offer and I just want opinions whether it is a good deal. Thanks!

gaphic2 · #2 Post by **gaphic2** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:53 am

I do so hope they will put some next generation IPS or MVA/PVA screens in the next line-up. Screens like that are still developed and being made. By all means put a TN panel in as standard, but having the choice of a higher quality screen as an option would make al lot of repeat Thinkpad buyers happy, imo.

It's hard to say if this is a good deal without knowing more specs: CPU, memory, hard drive, ... What kind of warranty does it have? And is it new, open box, mint, used, ...?

tockki · #3 Post by **tockki** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:01 pm

I checked out some more details... I guess I am just worried that if I buy this laptop the "new" thinkpad lines would carry it and I'd be a little peeved about it. Thanks!

Puppy · #4 Post by **Puppy** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:21 pm

Notebook displays will be worse only with every new model.

EricRC · #5 Post by **EricRC** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:30 pm

In my opinion, $1100 for a 2nd hand T60 is a little too much, a T60p with 15` UXGA Flexview and v5200 graphic chip costs almost the same or just $100 more

sktn77a · #6 Post by **sktn77a** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:44 pm

Given the price pressures on Lenovo and its products, I doubt very much we'll ever see anything but low bit TN LCD displays in thinkpads of the future.

gaphic2 · #7 Post by **gaphic2** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:24 pm

I'm a bit more positive. Once the market for cheap laptops is saturated, you'll see more quality products appearing again.

Quality LCD's are still being developed, but as there's more money to be made today in the smaller and larger ends of the market (phone screens and TV's) that's where they're going now.

Why don't we have a poll on the subject?

"Would you like the new Thinkpad models to be made available with a non-TN quality LCD panel option?"

ajkula66 · #8 Post by **ajkula66** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:12 pm

Unless that T60 is ridiculously loaded and has a ton of warranty left, $1100 is a very steep price.

On this very forum, T60p UXGA units in top condition with a lot of warranty left have been changing hands for $1200, and that's from well-known, trusted sellers.

T60 with IPS can be found for well under $800 on fleabay, if you choose to go that route.

Mr-Pacman · #9 Post by **Mr-Pacman** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:16 pm

I'm a rookie to the world of laptops and Thinkpads, but I think that price is high.

I paid 1/2 that much for a brand new in box T60 model 2007-75U with the 15' Flexview. The machine had 1 gig ram, 100 gig HD and 2.0ghz. It's just as fast as my new T61.....

pacman

tockki · #10 Post by **tockki** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:16 pm

Hmm... It is
Type: Intel Core 2 Duo
Model: T7400
Speed: 2.16 GHz
Hard Drive
Size: 120 GB
Spindle Speed: 5400 RPM
RAM
Installed Size: 1 GB
Display Size: 15"
Type: SXGA+
Max Resolution 1400 x 1050
Technology: TFT Active Matrix
Model Number: 20077JU

So for $1100? Still a steep price? ... (with the bad economy and all I really shoudn't be splurging like this...)

It's just that I've been searching for an sxga+ flexview but with 5200 not the ATI1400 but it's the closest thing I've seen so far. Along that the computer is in near perfect condition. Hmmm.. contemplation...

UXGA would be great but the sxga+ on my 14.1 is killin my eyes...

tockki · #11 Post by **tockki** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:18 pm

The great thing about this lappy is that it is duo 2 core. not duo core. Hmm...

tockki · #12 Post by **tockki** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:50 pm

Actually there is a setup of one of our fellow thinkpad that I am really jealous about... His setup goes like...

T60p: 15" UXGA BOE-Hydis AFFS IPS Flexview, T7600 Core 2 Duo 2.33GHz, Atheros a/b/g/n, ATI FireGL V5200 256MB, 1.18TB in HDD's, 3GB RAM, Advanced mini-dock, Vista Ultimate 64-bit SP1

Would love to his computer.

ajkula66 · #13 Post by **ajkula66** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:06 pm

Not impressive for $1100 IMHO...you can always swap the CPU, that's by far the smallest problem.

Your money, your call. I'd be very hard pressed to pay over $850 for a machine like this. And as most people on this forum know, I love FlexViews.

Make sure there's genuine Lenovo warranty left on the machine as well...

Good luck.

NathanA · #14 Post by **NathanA** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:14 pm

Yeah, $1100 might be a little steep (esp. with 5400RPM hard drive and only 1GB of RAM), but it might also be difficult to find a FlexView of the configuration you are after, so in the end it MIGHT be worth it, especially if you have seen the computer in person and you can see for yourself that it has been treated well. If you are buying the computer for the FlexView and its condition and money is no object, then you can always upgrade other components later and the purchase might still be justified.

I just tried eBay and failed to find any good T60 FlexViews matching your request, much to my own surprise! Also did a national Craigslist search through Google and only found ONE model matching your desired specs in the Chicago area and the listing has already expired.

If you are restricting your search to your local area, you might expand that out a bit.

If I were you, though, I would hold off a bit (if your circumstances allow you to be patient) and look for one that more closely matches your requirements. If I understand you correctly, you said you were looking for a T60 but that you were hoping for a 'P' model (V5200/V5250) and you specifically would like the SXGA+ FlexView instead of the UXGA and also want C2D.

Let me tell you that these models are few and far between, and the current owners of these laptops are probably not actively trying to rid themselves of their purchase by this point yet. The reason these are scarce is because when the Core 2 Duo/Merom refresh in the T60 line occurred in October 2006, the FlexView crisis hit Lenovo *at the same time*. There were absolutely NO UXGA C2D models manufactured by Lenovo, EVER; all UXGA T60ps are Core Duo (Yonah). Anybody who claims to have one for sale or for their own use cobbled together/modded their ThinkPad themselves (took a UXGA screen and a T60p C2D and merged 'em together).

There WERE T60p SXGA+ C2D models made after the refresh, but you won't find any listed in the TABOOK because Lenovo never generated an official 7-digit model number for that configuration; every T60p SXGA C2D unit shipped by Lenovo was a custom build-to-order (CTO) model. Also, I'd have to go back and look at the TABOOK to be sure, but before this singular event, I believe that neither IBM nor Lenovo had ever manufactured SXGA+ T4xp or T6xp models.

I have a friend who has one of these late-model C2D non-WS T60p (V5250) w/ SXGA+ FlexViews (LG display), and it bears the model number 2613CTO. Any equivalent computer that you happen to find will in all likelihood also be labeled as a CTO of 2613. He ordered it directly from Lenovo in December of '06. This is what I was looking for on eBay and Craigslist and was unable to find.

Good luck with your search and purchase.

-- Nathan

gaphic2 · #15 Post by **gaphic2** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:37 pm

I've seen a seller offering a new 2613 with 3 years warranty, but it ain't cheap - drop me a pm.

ajkula66 · #16 Post by **ajkula66** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:59 am

Another thing here...test out your friend's machine with UXGA screen, there is a good chance that you'll find it a lot less straining on your eyes than 14" SXGA+, although the dpi count is higher. It's a whole another viewing experience.

andrey · #17 Post by **andrey** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:40 pm

tockki wrote:Actually there is a setup of one of our fellow thinkpad that I am really jealous about... His setup goes like...

T60p: 15" UXGA BOE-Hydis AFFS IPS Flexview, T7600 Core 2 Duo 2.33GHz, Atheros a/b/g/n, ATI FireGL V5200 256MB, 1.18TB in HDD's, 3GB RAM, Advanced mini-dock, Vista Ultimate 64-bit SP1

Would love to his computer.

he-he, that's exactly what I have, except I run WinXP x64 and Ubuntu 7.10

tockki · #18 Post by **tockki** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:06 pm

Wanna sell me yours Andrey? ^^ Decided to wait... money IS a factor. (I just put my foot into stocks and wish my stocks would just shoot up so I can buy it. but still in the red.)

Maybe I'm hopin the new refreshed T60/61s will carry flexview.. But the consensus on the boards are NOPE!

Hope that noone buys it so the guy will surely have to lower the price... fingers crossed.

As for UXGA amazing screen but a bit straining on the eyes.

Thanks for all the replies guys.

andrey · #19 Post by **andrey** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:07 am

tockki wrote:Wanna sell me yours Andrey? ^^ Decided to wait... money IS a factor. (I just put my foot into stocks and wish my stocks would just shoot up so I can buy it. but still in the red.)

I'm actually thinking of selling mine and getting T61p, but I probably will end up keeping the screen and swapping T61p internals with T60. But that will void the warranty.... Decisions, decisions, decisions...

ajkula66 · #20 Post by **ajkula66** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:27 am

andrey,

If your T60p is a stock unit that came with both C2D CPU and UXGA LCD, I'd be very interested in it should you decide to sell...since that would be the only one that I've heard of with such specs and non-customized...

Feel free to drop a PM...

NathanA · #21 Post by **NathanA** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:26 am

ajkula66 wrote:andrey, If your T60p is a stock unit that came with both C2D CPU and UXGA LCD, I'd be very interested in it should you decide to sell...since that would be the only one that I've heard of with such specs and non-customized...

Me too, but when he made the comment that it would "void the warranty" I read that as him referring to the T61p that he would be "gutting" to get the parts. I bet his T60p doesn't have any coverage.

I'd love to be proven wrong...if I am wrong, tell me model # and serial # (the latter of which you can PM to me if you are uncomfortable with it being in public).

-- Nathan

andrey · #22 Post by **andrey** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:11 am

Nathan / George

You guys are both right, Lenovo never produced T60p with SXGA Flexiview (were there a few T60p with 15.4" WUXGA and 15" UXGA combos though) and C2D cpu. My original machine was 2008-C8U and rather than waiting for Lenovo to magically come up with a perfect configuration (which never happened), I upgraded cpu to T7600 C2D and changed UXGA for SXGA to meet my needs. I than added Atheros abgn card to add the ability to connect to 'n' networks and a larger 7k200 200gb hard drive to compliment the laptop with more storage space. So, essentially, it became a modified system that is pretty much top of the T60p line.

So the only part that won't be covered by a warranty will be the screen (although I still have original UXGA in case I would need to put it back) and probably upgraded cpu. Other components, which have a much higher probability to mulfunction, are still covered by the warranty though.

Of course, one can argue that replacing CPU voids the entire warranty, but in the past when I upgraded very similar components in T42, Lenovo didn't have an issue with warranty repair as long as repair didn't involve updated components. But even if it did, they would simply swap them for original parts that are listed for the model/serial combo.

-- Andrey

NathanA · #23 Post by **NathanA** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:29 am

andrey wrote:You guys are both right, Lenovo never produced T60p with SXGA Flexiview (were there a few T60p with 15.4" WUXGA and 15" UXGA combos though) and C2D cpu.

Nope, sorry, you got it backwards.

Go back and read my original post again (the longer one from yesterday). Lenovo DID make T60p SXGA+ C2Ds, but they were ALL CTO (and might have only been available in the US). As I said, I know someone who has one and I've used the computer itself and done the warranty parts lookup on it, so I know it's legit.

The units they never made were UXGA C2D T60ps.

In your response to tockki, you said "that's exactly what I have!' except that you must have missed the part where tockki said he was currently using a UXGA.

Hence our confusion, though it sounds like you originally started off with UXGA anyway.

Also, regarding one other reference you made, I think you are correct that 15.4" WUXGA T60ps were released in limited quantities (seems like just about everything dealing with the WUXGA screen is in the context of "limited quantities," LOL); however, that is a widescreen, non-FlexView display, while the topic of conversation here is FlexView-based T60ps.

Best,

-- Nathan

gaphic2 · #24 Post by **gaphic2** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:47 am

Lenovo never produced T60p with SXGA Flexiview and C2D cpu

I don't think that's right. I bought mine in Sep 07, and there are still a few new ones on the market. Though many of those today are new/open box ones.

As for FireGL V5200 and Core 2 Duo, I don't think that combination was produced. There were some SXGA+ FireGL V5250 Core 2 Duo's retrofitted with a UXGA screen, however, for example by a German comany. See this link for the review:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Len ... 404.0.html

They were offered with a 3 year warranty.

gaphic2 · #25 Post by **gaphic2** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:18 am

If you're dead set on a 15" UXGA FireGL Flexview there are several options open to you:

1. Wait a couple of months for the last returned/open box T60's to clear the vendors. www.codemicro.com for example is still offering several hundreds of T60's. I expect to see some more of the last T60p's come on the market in the months to come. Maybe there are a few of those retrofitted ones left. Cheapest way, but longer term and uncertain.

2. Buy a Core Duo UXGA V5200 and upgrade the processor to a T7400 or T7600. These are still available, at www.planetnotebook.com for example. This is not the cheapest option, but you'll have 3 years warranty - if you need to have it repaired, put the old CPU back in.

3. Buy a Core 2 Duo SXGA+ V5250 and upgrade the screen, or an XGA 15" V5200 T60 and upgrade the screen, inverter and the processor.

If you feel uneasy about doing these refurbishings yourself, I'm sure you'll find members here that will help you out.

Crunch · #26 Post by **Crunch** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:25 pm

Well, I also am hoping for the next T6x, or whatever it will be, to have either IPS Flexview back, or something that gets very close to it.

To all who want the best of both worlds: You can upgrade a T60p w/IPS to as high as a T7600, with a clock speed of 2.33GHz, 4MB of L2 cache, and 64-bit capability. You can also upgrade its network card to an N card, as well as the usual suspects, RAM, hard drives, etc.

You can make your T60p into a powerhouse and a half, while retaining the beauty of IPS.

I'd like to see IPS screens to come back at least as an option, as I would certainly be willing to pay the price!! And I believe there to be many other hard core Thinkpad owners who would would as well.

gaphic2 · #27 Post by **gaphic2** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:30 am

These are the different categories for the Flexview machines that you still find on the market:

1. Brand new equipment, factory sealed, 1-3 year Manufacturer WarrantyNew equipment, factory sealed, (No OEM Warranty)
2. Demo equipment that has been opened for short term use, balance of OEM warranty
3. Demo equipment that has been opened for short term use, no OEM warranty
4. Used, refurbished equipment Grade A - fully functional, no manuals
5. Used, refurbished equipment Grade B - fully functional, no manuals, up to 2 cosmetic imperfections which do not impede use

tockki · #28 Post by **tockki** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:42 am

I bought it~! Flexview model # 20077JU sxga+ 120 GB etc... with almost 2 year warranty left. It is supposedly in perfect condition, no dead pixels and was only used for presentation purposes. (If I see problems with it item can be returned ^^)

Some of you might think I am crazy for paying $1100 but I sold one of my 14" thinkpad X1300 duo 2 core 2.0 w/ 60GB 7200 to my friend for $400... (I had 2 14" thinkpads... so I sold one) Actually I used one thinkpad for traveling so lots of rough use... and kept one at home (babied it of course...)

Anyways looking forward to get use a flexview ^^ Thanks guys for helping me out in making a decision... It was so difficult in trying to find a setup like this in supposedly "perfect" condition.

NathanA · #29 Post by **NathanA** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:38 am

tockki wrote:I sold one of my 14" thinkpad X1300 duo 2 core 2.0 w/ 60GB 7200 to my friend for $400...

You sold a T60 for $400?! My, my but the market for used ThinkPad has plummeted, hasn't it?

Anyway, good luck with your new purchase. I hope it meets your expectations.

-- Nathan

Crunch · #30 Post by **Crunch** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:29 pm

tockki wrote:I bought it~! Flexview model # 20077JU sxga+ 120 GB etc... with almost 2 year warranty left. [...] (If I see problems with it item can be returned ^^)

Anyways looking forward to get use a flexview ^^ Thanks guys for helping me out in making a decision... It was so difficult in trying to find a setup like this in supposedly "perfect" condition.

Awesome...Where'd ya buy it from? ebay? I have a 2007 series as well, which means those 2 years of warranty, is international warranty (IWS)!!

Have you ever had a Flexview screen before? If not, you will have been assimilated, as I was, when I got my first T42p w/IPS. hahaa...Once you go IPS, you'll never go....you know the rest!

I did a quick check, and you even got a T7400, so no, you're not crazy for spending $1,100 on it. You can run Vista 64-bit on it, and it'll be FAST, no matter what OS (or OS's) you decide to run on it!!! I had a 2623 (NO IWS), also with SXGA+, and gave it to my dad after upgrading it to what you have, a T7400, because I wanted UXGA resolution. He still keeps talking about how great the screen is, including when he lies outside and works with it. IPS works great in sunlight.

If you decide to run either Vista 32, or 64-bit, the only thing I would upgrade is the RAM. With Vista 64-bit, you'll have to add at least 1 more GB, but XP will run nicely on one gig, if you don't run graphics-intensive applications.

Congrats on your purchase, and let us know how you like it!!

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