Mystery solved! BOE-Hydis UXGA (sRGB) found

[gaphic2]

This mysterious panel has been discussed here before - see the sticky on LCD availability.

FRU 13N7194, or LCD panel 15.0-in. UXGA FFS (sRGB) BOE-Hydis in full, has as model number HV150UX1-102.

It arrived this morning. I'll be posting some links to pics later on today.

[Peak2Peak]

Subscribed!

[gaphic2]

Here are the first pics - box and back of the panel. I'm waiting for some more parts before installing it:

Box label: http://i25.tinypic.com/2wntoaa.jpg
Panel back: http://i29.tinypic.com/2m2w0ns.jpg

Is the date on the box April 1st(!) or January 4th?

[Troels]

Looks great!
also it seems as if the serial below the barcode has changed from the one used on HV150UX1-101 (which can be seen from the datasheet), so it's not really easy or possible to determine when the panel was made from the label at least. The fifth letter/number from the left should indicate year, 4 for 2004, 5 for 2005 and so on.

[Peak2Peak]

Wow! - Well I thought I would never see the day when someone has actually managed to get FRU 13N7194 - truly verified with a jpg as proof! RESPECT! - I think the label date on the box is 4th Jan 2007

[gaphic2]

@Troels
I think the date checks out if you use a product spec sheet from a couple of month later - they seem to have moved to 2 digit year codes:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
XX X X XX X XXXX XXXXXX
YC T H 06 8 2JR3 000125
1. Control Number
2. Rank / Grade
3. Line Classification (BOE HYDIS : H, LCM : L, BOE OT : A/B/C)
4. Year (5 : 2005, 6 : 2006, …)
5. Month (1, 2, 3,…, 9, X, Y, Z)
6. FG Code
7. Serial Number

If I read it correctly manufacture date would be 08/2006

[Troels]

Ah, yes, you're right - i was looking at the wrong text string below the other barcode

[gaphic2]

The other barcode is the Lenovo part identification number. I think it should be read like this:

Code: Select all

1   2       3 4  5   6      7   
11S 13N7193 Z 1Z C7U 000320 608

1. Serial number format
2. P/N
3. Serial number subformat 
4. Plant (location) of control and part type
5. Identifier for the part 
6. Sequence number
7. FG code

So can we assume that at least 320 sRGB panels were produced? Could someone who has a HV150X1-100 take a look at their serial # and compare?

[Troels]

I have a HV150UX1-100 panel that i bought as used and untested, unfortunately the picture it shows is about as bad as it gets (vertical stripes, water splotches, dust in many locations) - so i use it for replacement parts only - if the ccfl is universal - and study how the controller board works. Anyways, it says:

11S13N7075Z1ZBVT026137605

so that would mean that at least 26137 HV150UX1-100 panels were made. I don't know - never had a clue about how many T60ps with UXGAs were sold in about a 1 year time frame, but it sounds a little low.
The panel is from May, 2006.

[NathanA]

Alright! However, the mystery isn't COMPLETELY solved yet...someone needs to do a SIDE-BY-SIDE with the 13N7076 panel and the 13N7194 panel. Does anyone know for SURE what "sRGB" means? I know that there has been speculation, but has it been confirmed?

It would also be interesting to compare them physically. Are they really different physically, or the same display but just with different EEPROM contents? Would it be possible to "clone" the EEPROM of an sRGB display (in the manner that Troels has been able to do in the past with different displays) onto a "normal" BOE-Hydis display and have it be functionally the same?

gaphic2, have you installed this display in a ThinkPad yet??

-- Nathan

[Troels]

I don't think it has been confirmed, nor did/does BOE-Hydis tell that it did exist (they told that it did not).

There are limits for color primaries set in the EEPROM, which can be modified as one wishes in any LCD - what this means in practice when reflashing the EEPROM i don't know, i'm thinking there's no impact, but the data values are just there so it can be extracted by other programs.

I've been looking at and measured the as good as dead hv150ux1-100 i mentioned just before, and i have not yet suceeded in decoding of how to extract the eeprom contents. I'll need a modified I2C circuit for this, or install the screen again and dump the edid directly, but it's hard work just for that. Btw. the eeproms don't even have a proper marking on them, so i can't determine which type they really are, i.e. don't even know if 3.3V is enough. Did i say it contains two eeproms? I'll probably end up desoldering both, mount them on an SOIC adapter and read the contents of both.

[gaphic2]

Actually, I have had an email from BOE-Hydis today - confirming that the 13N7076 is 'normal AFFS' and the 13N7194 is 'sRGB AFFS'.

I've asked them to mail me the product spec sheet - the only one I could find online was the one for the HV150UX1-101, mentioned by Troels.

[NathanA]

Actually, I have had an email from BOE-Hydis today - confirming that the 13N7076 is 'normal AFFS' and the 13N7194 is 'sRGB AFFS'.

Yes, yes...but what does that actually mean?

-- Nathan

[ulrich.von.lich]

I guess it would be another sRGB vs Adobe RGB thing.

I wouldn't recommend you to change a RGB screen to an sRGB one unless you absolutely need it. (eg, you publish lots of stuff on the internet or your T60p is used with a photo printer etc..). My Olympus E-410 allows me to shoot photos in both sRGB & RGB color profiles but I always use RGB because it has wider range of colors.

Anyway they should be the same monitor with different color spaces. I don't think most of people can notice the difference. And if you are serious about the photography, you probably have a professional monitor that can be calibrated anyway.

More info:

http://www.smugmug.com/help/srgb-versus-adobe-rgb-1998
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRGB

Hope it helps.

Best Regards,
Tony

[gaphic2]

Until we get the specs I wouldn't like to speculate. And the Boe-Hydis Notebook and Tablet PC applications sales senior isn't very forthcoming with info. I got this today:

Dear sir.

HV150UX1-102 is the product number of 15in UXGA sRGB AFFS.

and I'm sorry that I can't give you the product specification sheet.

Thanks!

I'm trying customer service and media relations now. Someone is bound to have access to those sheets.

The spec sheets we do have of BOE-Hydis panels originally came from the german site: http://www.boehydis.de/products/panels.html. So I've also asked Beck Elektronik, who distribute BOE parts, whether they can get the missing ones.

[erik]

I guess it would be another sRGB vs Adobe RGB thing.

not exactly.   neither panel is AdobeRGB.

i can't see the sRGB panel having a markedly wider color gamut over the RGB version but only a side-by-side test would determine this for sure.

besides, they're all 6-bit panels so even a "better" panel is still limited compared to an external display.

[Troels]

i can't see the sRGB panel having a markedly wider color gamut over the RGB version but only a side-by-side test would determine this for sure.

besides, they're all 6-bit panels so even a "better" panel is still limited compared to an external display.

Normal laptop LCDs: ~45% of NTSC
sRGB: 72 % of NTSC

So i'm thinking it will be noticeable, but only at color extremes.
Who knows if it is 6 bit or 8 bit. 17" 8 bit laptop LCDs from LG exists, and is not that hard to get.
But yes, i very much doubt they would do a "one of a kind" 8 bit panel, that's also against their philosophy of having some of the most power efficient displays.

Did I say BOE-Hydis is still alive and producing the "old panels" ?

[erik]

Normal laptop LCDs: ~45% of NTSC
sRGB: 72 % of NTSC

normal notebook displays may be 45% but what's the standard RGB BOE panel?   i was under the impression it was 72% as well.

[Troels]

I don't know about the HV150UX1-100, but for the HV150UX1-101 it *looks* like about 45%. The measured color primaries look very much like those quoted by Idtech on their SXGA+ and UXGAs.
HV150UX1-100 can be different, since the -100 only seems to be used by Lenovo, so they could do a custom spec order if the order is large enough.

But don't let the color space be the deciding factor. It is still a laptop panel, and wider color spaces may look quite banded in 6 bit for example.

[gaphic2]

Here's a little graph of the sRGB gamut (green wireframe) and the output of my RGB graphics card as managed by the TPFLX monitor profile (red solid), which all of us Flexview users have running.
http://i30.tinypic.com/t6dn2s.jpg

In this one, I've added the non-flexview LCD Thinkpad monitor profile (blue wireframe), looking from a different angle.
http://i25.tinypic.com/2z6fdde.jpg

The final plot compares the Flexview profile and the sRGB profiles with the NTSC standard (white wireframe). For European forum members: the PAL/SECAM standard is virtually identical to sRGB.
http://i26.tinypic.com/2ch0yyv.jpg

[gaphic2]

And here ... drumroll ... is the HV150UX1-102 spec sheet:
http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=460667

Good karma to the Boe-Hydis tech department!

[Troels]

Nice

However, something looks wrong about it, those color primaries listed in the datasheet are not srgb... wonder what makes this srgb - it says "srgb mode support"

[gaphic2]

There seems to be a link between power consumption and sRGB mode:

• PD : 2.0 (2.2 @ sRGB Mode)
  Ptotal : 6.2 (6.3 @ sRGB Mode)
  Power Supply Current: 610 (670) Typ. (sRGB Mode)
  Logic current or power in () is the value in case of sRGB

[Troels]

You're right. Hmm, wonder how srgb mode is set, and if it is defaulted to that mode or....

By the way, in case people are wondering why there haven't been added more pics of the panel for some time - it's because the panel is currently in the airport. Don't blame Gaphic2, shoot the messenger (=postal system)
Yes, i bought it from Gaphic2, as he said he was happy with what he has now, and would look into something with more nits instead. To be honest i don't think there is much difference between Boe-Hydis and IDtech, but the LG Philips flexview is the most vibrant, judging by Hoyas comparison pics, it's very clear. I don't have the link right now, but can find it.
So why was i buying it? Because my current IDtech have multiple dust specs in the middle, the light homogenity is getting much worse and it always had some weird unevennes to it, when viewed on a black backgound it was as if there are vertical 1 cm wide "sections".
And then i just have always been extremely curious since the release of the T60 series what the "other" BOE-Hydis was like.
I'll post some more pics when it arrives, and when it is installed. It might come tomorrow, if not - due to some odd holiday the rest of the world probably don't have - it won't be before monday i think