T42 PreDeskTop Area can NOT be accessed,even change the BIOS

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Jay_T42 · #1 Post by **Jay_T42** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 6:03 pm

I know I am not the first one. So I hope somebody can help me out.

I didn't know I should change the BIOS first before I tried to reclaim the predesktop area. (Since only IBM does this tricky trick).

This is what I did:
first tried to convert the PDA from primary to logical suing, Partition magic 7 , failed. It said no enough memory (and yes, memory)

and I then tried to resize the PDA to 10G with PM7, hoping this can make the "memory" enough. Looked ok. But after restarted the lappy, the PDA and the 5G I added to it was gone.

PM7 doesn't work anymore, says can't read drive letter. Installed PM8, same thing.

I finally use compmgmt.msc to reclaimed the 5GB I added to the PDA, but the PDA is still missing, nothing can access it, fdisk, PM, disk management, nothing, even if I change the BIOS setting to disable, or secure or normal.

The window XP works find though. Can anybody tell me how to get it back? Will the recovery CD do the job? Because I didn't make any recovery CD, can I use the recovery CDs that is made by another T42 with exact same configuration?

Any suggestion is appreciated, thanks.

Jay_T42 · #2 Post by **Jay_T42** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:10 pm

I am creating recovery CD using my friend's T42 with an exact configuration.

Please let me know if I can use them before I do so.
My concern is the windows CD Keys for both T42 are different. It might cause problem if I use recovery CDs made by one to recover the other.

Jay_T42 · #3 Post by **Jay_T42** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:01 am

Now, if I run Partition Magic 8 under Win XP, it will show:

Disk 1 (38154mb 240H63S) appears to have partions created using a different drive geometry (1h63s. This serious problem can lead to data loss. No partition manipulation should be made to this disk using this product or the operating system's products. You should back up the data on this disk, delete all partitions, creat new partition under the new drive geometry and then rostore you data using the backup.

Any body knows how is the problem and how to fix it?

Jay_T42 · #4 Post by **Jay_T42** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 11:11 am

Now even the recovery CDs will NOT do the job
after I chose "recover factory setting" and follow the instruction
it will just say "there is an error" and then stop.....

#5 Post by **jdhurst** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:05 pm

OK, you're this far along, and apparently your T42 is not operative because the recovery failed. Is that about right?

1. I'm not certain why you need to reclaim the Pre-Desktop Area. It provides recovery if you need it, and unless you ordered your T42 with a 10Gb drive, it just doesn't take that much space. On a 60Gb drive, after reduction for mega-bytes instead of bytes, and after reduction for Pre Desktop Area, I start with 53Gb. I make that 2 for Megabytes and 5 for Pre Desktop roughly.

2. I don't know if you can use recovery CD's from someone else's laptop that is the same, but recovery CD's are generic so it seems to me it should work.

3. What you need to do is get rid of partitions (all of them) and start again.

4. In the BIOS, set the start sequence to boot from CD - do not use the keyboard option at startup.

5. Start from the CD and let it proceed to the main menu. Press ESC to leave, then press F3 to exit. That should leave you at a DOS prompt like X: or X:\recover(y). Change to the recover(y) folder if you need to. Obviously I forget the exact name.

6. Start FDISK and remove all partitions. Then run fdisk /mbr <enter>.

7. Restart with the CD, and you should be able to proceed. If not, the CD's from the other machine won't work.

Now please remember I assumed you have already made the machine inoperative with a failed recovery. If somehow, it is still operative (I don't know how it could be) then think carefully before trying my steps. You need a way home which is proper recovery CD's and I don't see that based on your post.

Good luck. ... JD Hurst

Jay_T42 · #6 Post by **Jay_T42** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 1:20 pm

Glad to see a reply finally

The T42 is still running XP. After I recovery CD found a error it will stop but that's it.

1. Mine is 40GB HD (38G something actually). about 33G left.

6. Fdisk can't delete the logical partition. I will try a MBR only if only else will work, or even low level format.

Thanks for replying......

Conmee · #7 Post by **Conmee** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 1:53 pm

Jay,

You can't resize the Predesktop Area partition. If you change anything on the Predesktop Area or change the partition size, it will fail to work. The only way to change the size is to use a corporate package from IBM called IBM ImageBuilder Ultra. This isn't generally available to individual users, and it's expensive.

As far as deleting all your partiitons, PM8 should delete the PDA with no problem, as well as deleting all your other partitions. With the T42, it doesn't use a BIOS-secured hidden HPA. Instead, the PDA on T42s are set as a diagnostics partition that can be seen by PM8.

If you decide to use Rapid Restore Ultra to make a base image of your system, older versions of RRU allowed you to save the base image to the PDA, and it would resize it on the fly. But I've never used RRU in that fashion, and the latest version of RRU doesn't seem to allow that.

Daniel.

Jay_T42 · #8 Post by **Jay_T42** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:46 pm

I wished I saw your post earlier, before I did resize to my T42.

Now it does fail to work. And it can NOT be delete by PM8, or Fdisk, that's what frustrating me.

Since the XP is still runinng I can always back up or ghost the system. (I already have recovery CDs). Now I just want those 5GB back.....

I plan to hook the hard drive to another PC as a slave, and see if I can do it that way. Otherwise I may zero-filling the disk.

What else can I do?

lfeagan · #9 Post by **lfeagan** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 4:00 pm

Jay_T42 wrote:I wished I saw your post earlier, before I did resize to my T42.
Now it does fail to work. And it can NOT be delete by PM8, or Fdisk, that's what frustrating me.

Since the XP is still runinng I can always back up or ghost the system. (I already have recovery CDs). Now I just want those 5GB back.....

I plan to hook the hard drive to another PC as a slave, and see if I can do it that way. Otherwise I may zero-filling the disk.

What else can I do?

Use a linux boot cd to repartition the disk. I guarantee it won't be [censored] with you.

Conmee · #10 Post by **Conmee** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:20 pm

If you can still boot to WinXP, see if My Computer|Manage|Disk Management lets you delete the partition. It should show up as IBM_SERVICE (EISA Partition) in the Windows management console. Delete it from there, if possible. Then when you have the PDA deleted, use PM8 to delete the remaining partitions. As a rule, I usually only run the restore CDs to a clean HD... and make sure you aren't in a Dock II docking station... when I ran the recovery CDs while docked, it began restoring to my backup drive in the Dock II!!! lol

Daniel.

Jay_T42 · #11 Post by **Jay_T42** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:44 pm

lfeagan wrote: Use a linux boot cd to repartition the disk. I guarantee it won't be [censored] with you.

How? repartition it with linux?
will edit partition table do the job?

Jay_T42 · #12 Post by **Jay_T42** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:46 pm

Conmee wrote:If you can still boot to WinXP, see if My Computer|Manage|Disk Management lets you delete the partition.

Daniel.

Yes I can see it there and no I can't delete it there. The pop-up menu shows "help' only.

#13 Post by **jdhurst** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:39 pm

If you check the white paper on the Pre Desktop Area, it is not a partition. It is a hidden area that allows you to (1) recover the Laptop and (2) add partitions to the total number available to the system, not total -1 as it used to be when the recovery data was held in a hidden partition. So I think you can delete it with IBM Recovery CD. I think the process of using the Recovery CD with FDISK to first delete partitions and second fdisk /mbr will reset the hard drive for the Recovery CD to work properly. Otherwise I am not certain if you can manage the Pre Desktop Area. Again, I wonder openly with such large drives, why bother? If you want more partitions, you can use Partition Magic 8 to reduce the main partition and create 3 more if you wish. Been there, done that. ... JD Hurst

Conmee · #14 Post by **Conmee** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:14 pm

Jay_T42 wrote:
Conmee wrote:If you can still boot to WinXP, see if My Computer|Manage|Disk Management lets you delete the partition.

Daniel.
Yes I can see it there and no I can't delete it there. The pop-up menu shows "help' only.

Jay,

I just ran PM8 and it will allow me to delete the partition. But I also re-read one of your posts where you get that drive geometry error, and if it's the same error I think it is, when you run PM8, it should just list the drive as "Bad Partition/Bad Drive" I believe, and it'll be in yellow.

If that's the case, boot from the PM8 disk and delete it, it should allow you to essentially remove all partitions from the drive.

Or, as someone mentioned, Linux bootdisk will allow you to remove all partitions with no problems.

JD... partition/hidden area, it's all semantics... while the hidden area doesn't count toward the 4 primary partitions limitation on IDE drives, I can still manipulate it/back it up using PM8/DriveImage/Ghost. And XP considers it a 'partition' in the management console. But I agree with your assessment, and I read the same white paper. The recovery CDs should be able to do the job.

Daniel.

Jay_T42 · #15 Post by **Jay_T42** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:56 pm

Thanks, JD and Conmee.
When I use Fdisk to delete the area, it will not allow me to. Now since both of you mentioned it is not actually a partition. I am gonna try to delete the primary partition directly. (after back up the XP)

Conmee, PM8 won't run at all because of the error. It will just show the "geometry error" message and shut down, no matter in windows or pure DOS. But the linux bootdisk is a good idea, I am gonna give it a try too.

Here is my plan:
1. back up XP
2. try Fdisk it and delete the primary partition
3. try fdisk/mbr
4. try linux bootdisc
5. use Fujitsu Erase Utility (http://www.fcpa.fujitsu.com/support/har ... ities.html) to zero-fill the disc, because it is a Fujitsu hard drive.
6. If nothing works, I have to send it back to IBM for repair.

JohnDrake · #16 Post by **JohnDrake** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:45 am

Here is the link to the DOS based tool that allows access to the PSA area:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-46025

Umm...I have a program that will erase it...will erase everything on the drive, including the protected service partition with a /PSA parameter...

I cannot send it to a million requests, however...if someone wants to host it, I could send it to them...

Its called BOOTKIL. Its from IBM. You won't find it on their website, however.

Conmee · #17 Post by **Conmee** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:24 pm

JohnDrake,

The last time I checked, that utility only works on the 'older' HPA (Hidden Protected Areas/PARTIES) which are not the same as the current Predesktop Areas defined on T42 models. When you launch this applet from DOS it will tell you that no HPA is present on T42 machines, even when the PDA is in fact present.

As for the bootkil app, that indeed would work.

Daniel.

JohnDrake · #18 Post by **JohnDrake** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:30 pm

Ok, I found a place to post it...

This utility will completely wipe a Thinkpad's drive, and with the proper parameters, will wipe the hidden system partition as well. It needs to be put on some bootable external media (USB floppy, put on a bootable CD, bootable USB Thumb drive, etc).

It will not give a "Are you sure" warning. Be careful with it. Read the TXT file. All "parts" of the program must be present in the same directory it is executed from.

It is VERY good for running before using recovery CD's.

http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/n/t/n ... otkill.zip

Jay_T42 · #19 Post by **Jay_T42** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:49 pm

Thanks John, and every body
I was finally able to delete and reclained this partition, using a linux operation system installation disk. John, I will still download and keep your prgram just in case of future need.

To find out wether recovery CDs made by anther T42 with same configuration work. I tried them. They worked fine. They will basically creat the predesktop area first, and then copy all files from CDs to it, then restart, then recover the system from the predesktop area.

So no need to call IBM for the recovery CDs any more, just find a same model IBM and make them your self.

lfeagan · #20 Post by **lfeagan** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:56 pm

Mwahahaha, another win for linux!

RoundSparrow · #21 Post by **RoundSparrow** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:31 am

Jay_T42 wrote:Thanks John, and every body

To find out wether recovery CDs made by anther T42 with same configuration work. I tried them. They worked fine. They will basically creat the predesktop area first, and then copy all files from CDs to it, then restart, then recover the system from the predesktop area.

So no need to call IBM for the recovery CDs any more, just find a same model IBM and make them your self.

Are you implyng you can make your own set of recover CD's from the contents of your own hard drive?

Exact steps please?

thanks.

Jay_T42 · #22 Post by **Jay_T42** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 11:23 am

RoundSparrow wrote: Are you implyng you can make your own set of recover CD's from the contents of your own hard drive?

Exact steps please?

thanks.

yes.
It's in program--->access IBM---> recovery CD

bevross · #23 Post by **bevross** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:45 pm

Jay_T42 wrote:... I was finally able to delete and reclained this partition, using a linux operation system installation disk.

I'm curious if you deleted the partition/reclaimed the space without touching the XP/software C: partition (i.e., did you have to completely wipe the hard disk first or not)?

Jay_T42 · #24 Post by **Jay_T42** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:19 pm

bevross wrote:I'm curious if you deleted the partition/reclaimed the space without touching the XP/software C: partition (i.e., did you have to completely wipe the hard disk first or not)?

Yes. It will re-partition the harddrive, so everthing on your hard drive, including the XP, software and even the your own partition info will be wiped out.

kho-tele · #25 Post by **kho-tele** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:19 am

Hi,

have I understood you correct?

If you take a brand new harddisk (nothing on it) and use the restore CDs, a predesktop area will be created on this new disk?

And then the restore will start from the newly created PDA and NOT from the CD?

Best Regards,

Ken

Zeitgeist · #26 Post by **Zeitgeist** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:31 am

kho-tele · #27 Post by **kho-tele** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:11 am

Thanks a zillion times ....

I´ll give at try tomorrow .....

Best Regards,

Ken

kho-tele · #28 Post by **kho-tele** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:42 pm

BINGO!

it worked beautifully ....

#29 Post by **GomJabbar** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:31 pm

I read the following on another forum, and it proved very enlightening!

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/ibm ... 1431575eae

T42 PreDeskTop Area can NOT be accessed,even change the BIOS

T42 PreDeskTop Area can NOT be accessed,even change the BIOS

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