Should Lenovo offer a higher quality LCD panel as an option?

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gaphic2 · #1 Post by **gaphic2** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:45 am

If the panels on the new line-up are similar to the X300's, current Flexview users will be disappointed. Granted, the screens are brighter (300 nits), but viewing angles and colors fall far short of the Flexview experience.

I would like a higher quality LCD option, using recent incarnations of IPS or MA technology, to be offered as an option.

What are the available options? Which panel would you gladly pay extra for?

ajkula66 · #2 Post by **ajkula66** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:33 am

I'd pay for a FlexView in a heartbeat...but I'm afraid my money's safe with Lenovo's current direction.

gaphic2 · #3 Post by **gaphic2** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:47 am

Last year Boe-Hydis developed a new AFFS technology: surface reflection 0.3%, transmission 8.75% and 240 nits. Outdoor readability. I wouldn't mind one of those.

LG Display, as they are now known, have developed 120Hz IPS technology, eliminating motion blur. Again, yes please.

Chin Mei Optoelectronics developed a slim 15.4" RGB LED panel with 100% NTSC high color saturation and 300 nits last year. Where do I pay?

ulrich.von.lich · #4 Post by **ulrich.von.lich** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:27 am

I voted for yes. I think they should always provide the option for those who need it and are willing to pay for it. The rest of us will stick with a TN screen due to its affordable price.

The X300 is not for everyone either but it has its own market. However, I'd have prefered a high quality display to a SSD. If I remember right, the SSD itself costs about $1000, at which price a better display could have been made possible I guess

gaphic2 · #5 Post by **gaphic2** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:46 am

It seems that this year, panel manufacturers will be offering the notebook user a lot of new size choices:

Samsung 16" 16:9 1920 x 1080 - in Acer and HP notebooks
AU Optronics (AUO) and Chi Mei Optoelectronics (CMO) 15.6" - in Asustek notebooks.

Check out Jin's blog here: http://displayblog.wordpress.com/. He's a display analist who worked for LG.Philips as senior marketing manager.

I get an eerie feeling when I read through the display news he has collected. The technology to provide stunning notebook screens is all there. And the display industry and big household brand names that control it are rolling out zillions of low to medium quality stuff. Now, I don't blame them, there's more money in quantity, of course. After all, you can get 20 or more mobile telephone displays out of one notebook display.

But some of us do use notebooks for work. For me it's the only instrument I use, and I spend 99% of my working time in front of a notebook screen. Where's the logic in providing desktop replacement, workstation grade notebooks if the only screen you can put in it is the same one as you get in a typical supermarket laptop?

Puppy · #6 Post by **Puppy** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:13 am

I votes "yes" of course buy I know there is no way to improve current situation. Cutting the cost is the focus.

gaphic2 · #7 Post by **gaphic2** » Mon May 19, 2008 4:52 pm

While IPS and VA panels are being produced for the larger LCD TV's, TV manufacturers have a nasty surprise in stock for those of us silly enough to want a second or third smaller LCD TV:

In the LCD TV market, when everybody’s focused on the 32”, 40” and 50” segments, there is a rapidly growing trend which deserves our attention: LCD TV adapting LCD monitor panels. There are usually clear distinctions between LCD monitor panels and LCD TV panels: LCD monitor panels are lower in brightness because they’re usually much closer to our eyes, but are higher in resolution to accommodate PC information. Sizes are usually smaller (such as 17” to 24”) and the color gamut doesn’t need to be as high since they’re typically not used to play video signals or motion pictures. Simply put, LCD monitor panels are usually recognized as a lower-end display than the “noble” LCD TV panels.

What the big brands want to do is put cheap overstock monitor panels in new, 15"-22" LCD-TV's. This year, 13 million units will hit the streets, +90% from last year, and a 25% growth is expected up to 2012.

http://www.displaysearchblog.com/2008/0 ... or-panels/

#8 Post by **underclocker** » Mon May 19, 2008 7:18 pm

Yes, I'm on my third Flexview. I hope to have another Flexview choice when it's time to upgrade my T60.

14" Flexviews would be nice, too.

andrewb · #9 Post by **andrewb** » Wed May 21, 2008 3:49 am

It might be interesting to see the difference in voting patterns if the question was re-posed as a vote not just for Flexview-type screens but for Flexview screens with the traditional 4:3 ratio.

wearetheborg · #10 Post by **wearetheborg** » Sun May 25, 2008 5:11 am

I would love if they introduced IPS caliber displays.
But I dont think the current WUXGA screens are bad either.
Some screenshots of a T42 SXGA+ with a dell 17" WUXGA:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=47998

I gather the T6x WUXGA screens look like the dell one.
So while the WUXGA's are no IPS, they are satisfactory.
I am working now with the dell and R50P with UXGA IPS side by side, and the dell is fine.

Anyone know how the LED panels compare to backlit ones ?
Is the contrast ratio better ?

Troels · #11 Post by **Troels** » Sun May 25, 2008 6:49 am

Actually, 17" LCDs are of a higher class than the 15.4" and below wide-screen LCDs. 17" nearly always have two CCFLs, which consumes more power, but it is easier to control the uniformity of the backlight. They can get a slightly higher contrast ratio by this. For some reason the color they can reproduce is usually always good.

LED: usually better contrast, but far from always being the case. Color chromaticities are not better than the CCFL variants yet, and probably won't be for a long time to come.
Right know some have problems with "yellowing" out-of-the-box, so the technology isn't quite there yet for all manufacturers at least.

#12 Post by **gator** » Sun May 25, 2008 1:35 pm

14" flexviews, please! My next machine will NOT be a 15".

ajkula66 · #13 Post by **ajkula66** » Sun May 25, 2008 1:55 pm

How about 17" WQXGA FlexView...

My wife would love it...since she claims that her present T61p with WUXGA:

a) Doesn't have enough screen real estate
b) Doesn't compare well with our T43p with 15" UXGA IPS when it comes to colour reproduction and viewing angles...which I agree with...

wearetheborg · #14 Post by **wearetheborg** » Sun May 25, 2008 3:22 pm

ajkula66 wrote:How about 17" WQXGA FlexView...

Oh yeah...

ajkula66, how is the WUXGA screen on the T61P ? Contrast ratio, and backlight bleeding wise ? Are the blacks really black ?

Lets say thinkpad 14" SXGA+ screens are rated 3 and IPS screens are 10; what rating would you give the WUXGA ?

And, if you have free time someday, could you post screenshots of SXGA+, WUXGA, IPS screens side by side, incl one where the screen is black (and PM me in case I miss it).

ajkula66 · #15 Post by **ajkula66** » Sun May 25, 2008 6:36 pm

weatherborg wrote:

ajkula66, how is the WUXGA screen on the T61P ? Contrast ratio, and backlight bleeding wise ? Are the blacks really black ?

Lets say thinkpad 14" SXGA+ screens are rated 3 and IPS screens are 10; what rating would you give the WUXGA ?

Within your parameters, I'd probably rate the WUXGA at 5-6. Definitely better than your standard TN by quite a margin, but light years behind the FlexViews...

Blacks are not really black IMHO. Bleeding is there, but it's not horrible when compared to some other LCDs I've seen. Contrast is insufficient. Viewing angles are bad. But you've got to judge these statements bearing in mind who the source is...

We've had this T61p for about 4-5 days now, and my wife came to me last night and said:

" I found a buyer for the monster (that's how she refers to T61p). Don't even think of selling T43p, I'll give you the money to extend the warranty."

'Nuff said, coming from someone who claims "that there's no such thing as too much screen real estate"...?

Perdu · #16 Post by **Perdu** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:24 pm

I would have liked a flexview option when I purchased my T61.

AvalonXIII · #17 Post by **AvalonXIII** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:32 pm

I'm on my LED IPS screen made by BOE-Hydis right now (one of the last!). And let me just say, if Lenovo adopt this screen, I'll be a royal customer for life (as long as they continue to use the screen, of course

)

Puppy · #18 Post by **Puppy** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:40 pm

AvalonXIII wrote:I'm on my LED IPS screen made by BOE-Hydis right now (one of the last!).

Is there a model number ?

gaphic2 · #19 Post by **gaphic2** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:27 pm

Boe Hydis LED IPS? That's new to me. Tell us more.

As far as I'm aware, Boe Hydis had AFFS, AFFS+ and was developing HFFS when they went under. The tech was bought by Prime View International. Recently that company announced they were almost ready to adopt it in their product line, which unfortunately does not include notebook panels.

ajkula66 · #20 Post by **ajkula66** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:17 pm

AvalonXIII wrote:

I'm on my LED IPS screen made by BOE-Hydis right now (one of the last!).

What machine is that, since it's obviously not a ThinkPad?

Troels · #21 Post by **Troels** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:25 pm

Well, LED AFFS lcds do exist. I mentioned it in the X300 forums some time ago, but i can't find the post now.

http://www.beck-oled-lcd-tft-display.de ... X6-100.pdf Is an AFFS 12.1" WS LED backlit LCD

Or a 8.9" for the eee-sized umpcs:
http://www.beck-oled-lcd-tft-display.de ... X1-100.pdf

I don't think that Boe is shut down by any means or will be, now that they're out of the boe group. On their home page, they're hiring again. They'll still produce LCDs, but i'm sure we should expect 4:3 to appear again.
I really hope that the X200 is available with the HV121WX6, but somehow i am guessing it won't happen as They could have done much better with the X300 LCD from the reviews i've seen.

AvalonXIII · #22 Post by **AvalonXIII** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:04 pm

It's a Fujitsu tablet, T2010 to be exact. The screen is absolutely beautiful. I got something like 8 hours out of this little guy consistently. About the same weight as the X61 tablet, too.
I love it

gaphic2 · #23 Post by **gaphic2** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:36 am

Interesting stuff! The 8.9" screen is in Fujitsu's P1620, right? And have they also put the 12.1" in the Toshiba M700?

AvalonXIII · #24 Post by **AvalonXIII** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:08 pm

gaphic2 wrote:Interesting stuff! The 8.9" screen is in Fujitsu's P1620, right? And have they also put the 12.1" in the Toshiba M700?

Yep, BOE-Hydis screen with 16M colors
Source:
http://www.fujitsu.com/kr/services/pc/l ... index.html

PS: and it's a touchscreen to boot

At that size, the DPI is approximately the same as the SXGA+ screen in X61 tablet.

gaphic2 · #25 Post by **gaphic2** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:46 am

AvalonXIII wrote: Yep, BOE-Hydis screen with 16M colors

262K colors actually, it's still a 6-bit panel.

AvalonXIII · #26 Post by **AvalonXIII** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:14 pm

gaphic2 wrote:
AvalonXIII wrote: Yep, BOE-Hydis screen with 16M colors
262K colors actually, it's still a 6-bit panel.

Hmm, not according to the link from Fujitsu Korea that I gave. Scroll down a bit to the real spec's and you'll see that the screen has 16M colors.

Edit: To make it easier for those too lazy to click the link, here's what it says about the screen:
22.6 cm (8.9") WXGA(Transmissive) - Touch Panel
(1,280 × 768 @ 16M Color)

Should Lenovo offer a higher quality LCD panel as an option?

Should Lenovo offer a higher quality LCD panel as an option in its new line-up?

Should Lenovo offer a higher quality LCD panel as an option?

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