27K9987 / 93P4159 Upgrade

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Tim M · #1 Post by **Tim M** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:38 pm

I'm thinking of pulling the trigger for one of these mobos for ~$250 as an "upgrade" to my 2379-DXU with 64 MB Radeon 9600. I've had a little trouble finding detailed specs on all the varieties of the 128 MB FireGL mobo, but will I be able to swap out just the motherboard, re-using my existing modem/ethernet, CPU (currently 2.0 GHz P-M 755) and memory (currently 2 GB PC 2700 166 Hz) and have them run OK without any sort of bus speed mismatch, etc.? I realize that I'd also need to reset the machine type or S/N to ensure hardware compatibility.

TIA!

ajkula66 · #2 Post by **ajkula66** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:37 am

The answer, plain and simple, is yes. You can do that, it's been done by several forum members that I know of, and it will run fine.

My only question would be: with the prices of T4x units at the historic low, why not just get a "p" model and enjoy?

#3 Post by **Johan** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:55 pm

Tim:

I am frequently having the same difficulties as you - finding detailed specs on FRU's not mentioned in the (regrettably, not sufficiently updated!) HMM. In the case of the 27K9987 however, I know for sure that this is a "System board assembly, ATI M10 GL-128, Gigabit Ethernet with security chip/fingerprint sensor for T42" which is identical to FRU = 27K9912 and Mfg part 26R8210. Why do I know this? Because I have two T42p's (see sig) with the 27K9987! An identical part is 39T5475 (I think it is newer, compared to the two aforementioned; the 39T5475 might be a RoHS-compliant part?). The 128 MB FireGL motherboard will need a long fan - see the thread how is Thinkpad-parts.com ? for links to which long fan (FRU) to order, if you don't already have one.

If buying a new or used motherboard, make sure with the seller that all passwords are known or cleared (see e.g. this post about where to look for this/how to do).

The Hardware Maintenance Diskette can be found via the thread Setting S/N and TYPE on motherboard (need program)!?.

By the way, I wonder what you seek to obtain by swapping your 2379-DXU (ATI Radeon9600 GPU/64 MB VRAM) motherboard to the 27K9987 (ATI FireGL T2 GPU w/128 MB VRAM)? The latter, I guess, will consume more power than the former (meaning a slightly shorter battery time!), and will also run a bit hotter than the Radeon9600 (not much, if downclocking the GPU using e.g. NHC or the ATITool), but what's actually the overall advantage gained? That the 128 MB FireGL will run Vista? (but why would you want to do that, if you can run XP, and are satisfied with that??). One advantage, of course, is the feeling of having a maxed out ThinkPad!

PS: If you get the 27K9987 then you may consider upgrading your palmrest to one with a fingerprint reader? If so, look for either 26R7855 or 41V9129 or 91P8685 ("KEYBOARD BEZEL & FINGERPRINT ASSEMBLY FRU").

Good luck with your upgrade - and remember watch out for motherboards with loose GPU's...

Best regards,

Johan

Tim M · #4 Post by **Tim M** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:06 pm

Hi, Johan.

Thanks for the useful information; this is exactly what I was seeking. A big part of the desire to upgrade is one of maxing out the T42. I've upgraded the CPU, memory, and optical drive, so the mobo is the next logical step for extending the life of the machine. Everything else is in good condition, so with a new mobo, I should be able to squeeze another couple of years out of this laptop as my primary computer, saving a bit of money in the long run.

Another reason is when removing the fan to upgrade the CPU, I accidentally removed the metal heat spreader from the GPU. I reseated it with Arctic Silver 5, but this doesn't provide as good heat transfer as the original thermal cement that was presumably used at the factory. As a result, the GPU heats excessively under heavy load (an issue that puzzled me for a while as discussed in a few other threads on the board) but is otherwise fine. Replacing the mobo would address this issue with added benefits.

-Tim

sjthinkpader · #5 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:07 pm

Tim,

I made a short list of parts upgrading to T43 in this post.

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=60908

You can take a look. I did it with a 2379-DJU to 2668-xxU similar. It was only a 1.6Ghz Banias and had a loose GPU. Your T42 is much better equipped.

Tim M · #6 Post by **Tim M** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:51 pm

Thanks to another forum member, I have 39T5473 motherboard (128 MG Fire GL, no fingerprint reader) headed to me for a good price.

Once I've installed the board (which fortunately looks like mainly a drop-in replacement for my T42), it looks like I'll need to lay my hands on a USB floppy drive to use the HMD to set machine type and password, unless it is possible to boot from a USB drive (as suggested in the fourth post here). My major dilemma will be the software rebuild. I realize it would be best to rebuild from scratch using recovery disks, but it would be nice if I could instead do this either without wiping the hard drive or by using a recent full backup (with video drivers uninstalled).

Tim M · #7 Post by **Tim M** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:33 pm

Tim M wrote:Thanks to another forum member, I have 39T5473 motherboard (128 MG Fire GL, no fingerprint reader) headed to me for a good price.

Just received it today.

I now have my project for this weekend or the next.

I'm planning to reuse the long fan from my existing machine. It has the black thermal pad. Will I need to replace it or can it be reused if not terribly mangled during the removal process?

I've also been able to borrow a co-worker's USB floppy drive to make a copy of the HMD. I am still unsure, however, as to the best way of handling Win XP and my software on the hard drive. Would uninstalling the existing graphics driver be enough prior to the mobo swap (i.e. would Windows recognize the new mobo without trouble in this situation), or would I need to reinstall Windows and rebuild the software installations from scratch? I'd like to avoid the latter case if possible. I do have backups (images) of the boot and data storage partitions of the HDD available.

Thanks!

zdriver · #8 Post by **zdriver** » Thu May 01, 2008 12:32 am

Sounds like a great weekend project...
As long as the thermal pad is in good contact with the gpu, you should be fine. Maybe monitor the temps initially. Use a fresh application of AS5 on the cpu.
I think the 2 motherboards are close enough that XP will just detect the new hardware changes and load / prompt you for the drivers.
Perhaps someone who has done the upgrade can verify that.
Let us know how its performance is.

sjthinkpader · #9 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Thu May 01, 2008 9:43 am

OS has to be loaded from scratch in case of an upgrade from earlier machine.

Tim M · #10 Post by **Tim M** » Thu May 01, 2008 10:01 am

sjthinkpader wrote:OS has to be loaded from scratch in case of an upgrade from earlier machine.

Yeah, I don't know the BIOS version on the new board but expect the hardware is almost identical except for the graphics.

Would the software load need to be from the recovery CDs I burned after my last reinstall (which might be expecting a standard 2379-DXU T42 motherboard) or can I get by with a recent backup?

zdriver · #11 Post by **zdriver** » Thu May 01, 2008 10:24 am

"OS has to be loaded from scratch in case of an upgrade from earlier machine"
Why?

Maybe I missed something here but why does XP need to be reloaded for a simple change to a motherboard with a different graphics chipset in the same machine?

#12 Post by **underclocker** » Thu May 01, 2008 11:33 am

No need to reload OS, just let plug and play work, then download any needed drivers from Lenovo.

What are you doing with the "old" motherboard? Is it OK, GPU and USB ports? There should be quite a few interested here, including me.

Good luck on project. Before my T60, I had a 2379-DXU, what a great model.

Tim M · #13 Post by **Tim M** » Thu May 01, 2008 12:38 pm

underclocker wrote:No need to reload OS, just let plug and play work, then download any needed drivers from Lenovo.

That's a relief...saves me a lot of aggravation. And it looks like the latest release of the Omega drivers that I have installed for my Radeon 9600 also supports the FireGL, so I might be able to get away without uninstalling, though I might do so anyway just to play it safe.

What are you doing with the "old" motherboard? Is it OK, GPU and USB ports? There should be quite a few interested here, including me.

The existing mobo is fine except for the removal of the GPU heat spreader (there's no "loose GPU" issue, though) that seems to have reduced heat transfer after reinstallation. A few folks have expressed interest; feel free to PM me for more details.

Good luck on project. Before my T60, I had a 2379-DXU, what a great model.

Thanks! I've been very pleased with my T42. Not a bit of trouble after three years of the machine running nearly 24/7.

sjthinkpader · #14 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Thu May 01, 2008 9:20 pm

zdriver wrote:"OS has to be loaded from scratch in case of an upgrade from earlier machine"
Why?

Maybe I missed something here but why does XP need to be reloaded for a simple change to a motherboard with a different graphics chipset in the same machine?

The T43 is actually quite different from the T42, not just the GPU. For starters it is a native SATA underneath, then a SATA to PATA converter.

That's my understanding. When I went to upgrade, the T43 would not recognize my HDD at all. Had to start from scratch.

Tim M · #15 Post by **Tim M** » Thu May 01, 2008 9:48 pm

sjthinkpader wrote:
zdriver wrote:"OS has to be loaded from scratch in case of an upgrade from earlier machine"
Why?

Maybe I missed something here but why does XP need to be reloaded for a simple change to a motherboard with a different graphics chipset in the same machine?
The T43 is actually quite different from the T42, not just the GPU. For starters it is a native SATA underneath, then a SATA to PATA converter.

That's my understanding. When I went to upgrade, the T43 would not recognize my HDD at all. Had to start from scratch.

Yes, but isn't the 39T5473 a T42/p motherboard?

zdriver · #16 Post by **zdriver** » Fri May 02, 2008 12:07 am

It is a T42p motherboard.

If it was a T43 board, there would be a major problem with the HAL on boot and sjthinkpader would be correct.

sjthinkpader · #17 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Fri May 02, 2008 3:01 am

My apologies..j:?

Tim M · #18 Post by **Tim M** » Sat May 03, 2008 1:06 am

sjthinkpader wrote:My apologies..j:?

No worries.

Tim M · #19 Post by **Tim M** » Sat May 03, 2008 1:08 am

Johan wrote:The Hardware Maintenance Diskette can be found via the thread Setting S/N and TYPE on motherboard (need program)!?.

And just as an idiot check, I'd want to flash the EEPROM of the new board with the S/N and machine type of the about-to-be-removed board, yes?

Tim M · #20 Post by **Tim M** » Sun May 04, 2008 12:58 am

Installation complete.

The 128 MB of raw graphics computing power now pulses beneath my fingertips.

The biggest problem I experienced was a stripped screw (the metal used seems very soft) for the left hinge, necessitating machining away of the screwhead with a Dremel for removal.

Apart from that frustration, installation was simple with the HMM at my side. The pink pad got a little mangled upon removal from the GPU, but was good enough to reuse. I now note no GPU heat issue, verifying that removal of the heat spreader on the Radeon 9600 on the old mobo was the culprit.

After setting machine type and S/N with the HMD, I was able to boot into Windows without any difficulty. I simply had to "repair" my installation of the Omega ATI drivers to get the new video adapter fully working. The machine passes all PC Doctor tests, so I think this was a success. I'll monitor my computer under "normal use" conditions for the next week or so to verify.

Now I need to go update my signature.

Brad · #21 Post by **Brad** » Sun May 04, 2008 1:29 am

Nicely done Tim congratulations!

I have also noted that the left hinge screw needs a little extra attention.

Brad

Tim M · #22 Post by **Tim M** » Sun May 04, 2008 1:51 am

Brad wrote:Nicely done Tim congratulations!

Thanks!

I have also noted that the left hinge screw needs a little extra attention.

The big problem seems to be the 10 mm M2 screws used throughout the laptop (including the #3 screws holding in the keyboard) are made of a very soft metal causing the heads to strip very easily. The removal took a good hour or two, as I had to make sure metal shavings didn't shower the motherboard.

27K9987 / 93P4159 Upgrade

27K9987 / 93P4159 Upgrade

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