Do multiple DVD players permit different regions on Thinkpad

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blue2 · #1 Post by **blue2** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:46 pm

We have multiple DVD drives and multiple Thinkpads. Could one drive be set to Region 1 (i.e. by playing region 1 discs on it) and another to Region 2, and they then be used on our various Thinkpads, so one drive is a Region 1 player, the other Region 2?

Does the setting of each drive determine what region discs can be played on it OR are the region counters in the operating system and the software player on each Thinkpad going to limit each Thinkpad to just one region, even if different dvd drives were to be used?

It isn't clear to me if the region setting of the drive will supersedes all other region counters.

sjthinkpader · #2 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:45 pm

I believe the region control is in the drive not the Thinkpad.

RoadHazard · #3 Post by **RoadHazard** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:45 am

That's how I understand it too. If you have several drives with different region settings, you probably can swap in the drive to match the region of the DVD you want to play.

blue2 · #4 Post by **blue2** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:03 am

Yes, that is the way I've understood it too. But I've yet to see a definitive answer or anyone that's ever done this.

Before locking up each of our dvd burners to a region (a rather expensive test if it fails), I'd like to know that whatever region they are set to will then take precedence over the OS or dvd software, and allow the drives to be freely swapped between machines to change regions.

NathanA · #5 Post by **NathanA** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:00 am

I'm pretty sure that what you want to do can in fact be done successfully, although I've not tried it myself. My understanding is that with RPC-1 drives, the DVD playback software had to implement the region enforcement itself (and because it was software-enforced instead of firmware-enforced, it made it that much easier to bypass), but if you are using an RPC-2 drive, although the software still has that "legacy" code in there for when you are using an older drive, that code isn't doing anything and region enforcement is entirely handled by the drive itself.

However, if you are doing this because you find yourself stuck with crappy M a t s u s h i t a drives, may I recommend a better solution? Ditch 'em, replace them with the Hitachi-LG DVD-/+RW drive (FRU 39T2679, H-L model #GSA-4083N), and then flash the firmware on the drives with the patched RPC-1 version.

After having the freedom to watch DVDs from whatever region I wished to on my old ThinkPad 770 DVD drive, I was forced to endure the cruel tyrrany of the M a t s u s h i t a drive that came with my T42p for well over 2 years. While otherwise a fine drive, it had extra checks and protections in its firmware that were not easily bypassed, even by seasoned firmware crackers. When my T60p arrived with the Hitachi-LG drive, shouts of joy were heard for miles. I can now enjoy the freedom of regionless playback again.

In the T4x days, the Panasonic/M a t s u s h i t a drive was the only DVD burner option, so you were stuck. Now we have a choice.

Of course, I'm making a lot of assumptions here.

Are you using a plain DVD drive, a DVD combo drive, or a DVD burner? And what brand(s) and model #s?

-- Nathan

Akilae · #6 Post by **Akilae** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:08 am

I don't know how this works on a laptop, but I have the following setup on my computer:

1 DVD drive, set to Region 1
1 DVD-RW drive, set to Region 3

However, you still need to circumvent the OS and player region setting. For this I just use Media Player Classic, which gives me a free reign on the software side of things. I can play both drives at the same time.

I'll guess all you need is a multi-region capable player, such as Media Player Classic, and you'll be able to swap drives at will.

blue2 · #7 Post by **blue2** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:37 am

NathanA wrote:
Of course, I'm making a lot of assumptions here. Are you using a plain DVD drive, a DVD combo drive, or a DVD burner? And what brand(s) and model #s?

-- Nathan

We've got multiple DVD burners, including a few of the Panasonics, but also HLDS models GSA-U10N (FRU 39T2829), GSA-4080N (FRU 39T2673) and GSA-4083N (FRU 39T2679).

We've also got multiple Thinkpads (T61, X60, Z60, X31, T23) and since we're international consultants, its become a pain to be stuck with region problems each time we travel to another part of the world.

So I either thought I'd dedicate a DVD burner to region 1 and another to region 2 and be done with it, or I'd be interested in the
RPC-1 firmware flash you mentioned, since one of our drives is in fact FRU 39T2679, GSA-4083N.

Would it be too much to ask you the precise instructions you used so as to not kill our DVD burner. If this is an RPC-1 flash, my understanding was that this removed the region counter from the drive, but then the OS or DVD software counter kicks in and still needs to be defeated.

I was wondering if "Autoreset" firmware might be easier.

NathanA · #8 Post by **NathanA** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:21 pm

blue2,

I got my RPC-1 firmware for the GSA-4083N from here (which was in turn linked from this site; just search for "GSA-4083N" and hit the link that says "1.08 (IBM)"). You could certainly give autoreset firmware a try instead if you'd like; the file that I linked to actually contains both an autoreset version of the firmware AS WELL AS an RPC-1 version, so you get to take your pick.

The flashing procedure couldn't be easier. It's a Windows app, and the firmware is contained in the flashing app. You just run whichever of the two you wish to try (autoreset or RPC-1), it finds the drive, you say "go," and then you shut down your computer all the way after it's done and power it back on.

If you use the RPC-1 firmware, then yes, you will need to circumvent the software region checking stuff in the OS and/or your DVD playback apps. The way I choose to do it is through a simple little free program called "DVD Region Killer." It was originally written by Elaborate Bytes / ElbySoft (www.elby.de), but it looks like they took it down and don't maintain it anymore; however you should be able to find it with a quick Google search without any problem. I am using version 2.7 on XP; haven't tried Vista and don't know if it is compatible. The way the program works is that it incercepts any region-checking calls sent to the drive by the software on your system, and sends back a reply to the software that makes your RPC-1 drive look like an RPC-2 drive to your system; thus, the playback software "trusts" the responses it gets from your "RPC-2 drive" (DVD Region Killer) and doesn't enforce the protection built into the software that is there to deal with RPC-1 drives.

It looks like the web site that I got my firmware from for the GSA-4083N also has a version for your GSA-4080N (which I believe is a 12.5mm drive instead of a 9.5mm drive...so, probably for an R-series laptop?) which you might check out as well. As for the GSA-U10N, the Hitachi-LG option that has been shipping with T61s, I have not found any firmware for that particular model, but if the previous models are any indication, it is only a matter of time. Although some headway has been made in recent months on several Panasonic models, I do not believe that the UJ-812/822/842/852 (T42/T43/T60/T61) drives are among them yet, so I would just try to steer clear of those if at all possible.

Finally, if you do go through with your original plan, stock RPC-2 firmware in these drives usually gives you 5 region changes before you are prevented from changing again, so testing the theory that software doesn't enforce region protections itself if it detects an RPC-2 drive (which I believe is proven to be true based on how ElbySoft described how their own DVD Region Killer applet works) isn't nearly as expensive a test as you might think.

Good luck,

-- Nathan

blue2 · #9 Post by **blue2** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:10 am

NathanA,

Thank you for that very thoughtful, comprehensive and helpful reply!

I've flashed a salon DVD player (requiring an ISO, precise remote control sequence, etc.), but have found the whole notebook DVD player explanations of firmware flashing to be rather confusing. Your explanation was by far the clearest I've seen yet.

I've even found DVD Region Killer 2.702 on majorgeeks. So I should be able to get to this in the next few days and report back.

The only thing unclear to me was your point about RPC-2 drives would not be an expensive test. Meaning that if I set a drive to RPC-2 that would have NO effect on either the OS or DVD applications region checking, so that drive could be swapped in and out of machines without risking that it would have an effect on region controls?

Thank you again. Bravo ! Job well done.

blue2

NathanA · #10 Post by **NathanA** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:26 am

blue2 wrote:The only thing unclear to me was your point about RPC-2 drives would not be an expensive test.

Your initial comment that you first wanted confirmation that this idea of yours would work before trying it since it would be an "expensive test" if it failed was a comment which I took to mean that you were afraid that the drive(s) you were testing your theory on might get "stuck" in an undesireable region, which you would not be able to reverse. I was simply pointing out that most (if not all) RPC-2 drives give you about 5 region changes before it prevents you from making any more, and most software will tell you how many changes are left on a given drive if you ask it. So if you were afraid that you only had 1 region change per drive, rest assured you usually have multiple changes, and if you were afraid that swapping the drive between computers might cause a stealth region change to the drive without your consent, simply check the drive region and the number of allowed region changes left on the drive after you swap it, and if you see that counter going down, put it back to the region you want and stop your tests.

Swapping the drives back and forth certainly isn't going to hurt the OS and applications any, and even if the software has built-in limitations on number of region changes independent from the drives themselves, it's still software; image your hard drives before you start testing if you are concerned about this possibility (which, I think, is remote), and revert back to the image you took if you discover that something got screwed up in software as a result of your experimenting.

If by "expensive" you simply meant that it would cost you time, well, not much that can be done about that. If you want an answer that you can rely 100% on, sometimes you have to do it yourself in order to be sure.

-- Nathan

blue2 · #11 Post by **blue2** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:51 am

Yes, that is exactly what I was thinking of testing.

But I've learned from experience that dvd and burning software can have very deterimental effects on the OS. So I was just unsure whether inserting drives with different region settings on a Thinkpad would cause OS changes that then would not be reversable without a reinstall.

I've learned not to rush into these things even though they appear simple. My plan was to image before embarking on any tests so that I could always revert back, though of course, once the firmware is flashed, that's it.

I've just not seen anyone report on using various drives on the same Thinkpad to play different region discs. Theoretically, from what I've read, it should be a go. But as soon as DRM or region settings are involved, the powers that be think in their best interest, and have safeguards to insure that simple solutions don't suceed. As I'm sure you know, some stores charge a fortune to "unlock" a salon player, which is just a three minute flash of the firmware.

ectso12 · #12 Post by **ectso12** » Wed May 07, 2008 2:37 pm

Hi,

Just bought a GSA-4083N drive and really want to get the RCP-1 firmware but the rpc1.org site seems to be permanent down. Could someone has the firmware help by giving me a copy ?

Thanks

blue2 · #13 Post by **blue2** » Wed May 14, 2008 4:36 am

Sorry I can't help you. Apparently RPC1.org has some server problems that they're working on. Hopefully, they'll be back on line soon with firmwares.

I'm actually surprised that the site is not mirrored somewhere else.

sktn77a · #14 Post by **sktn77a** » Wed May 14, 2008 8:00 am

I'd just get a software package that runs in the background and filters out the RPC-1 and RPC-2 bits like AnyDVD or DVD Region-Free. I'm not familiar with DVD Region Killer, but it sounds like it does the same thing.

crashnburn · #15 Post by **crashnburn** » Wed May 14, 2008 11:52 am

I wish they never had this DVD region thing. Stupid to say the least.

blue2 · #16 Post by **blue2** » Wed May 14, 2008 5:12 pm

Well, I can understand it (though I don't agree) with regards to salon DVD players. But I can't even understand it with respect to notebook computers, since it's kind of impractical to say that your notebook can travel to other countries, but can't play their discs.

blue2 · #17 Post by **blue2** » Wed May 21, 2008 10:46 am

There was a delay in putting anything to the test as the rpc1.org server went down!

I finally tried a number of solutions today, but unfortunately none of them worked.

The CD-RW/DVD p/n 39T2674 / 39T2675 (GCC-4242N-R4) would not work with either of the two firmware "beta" patches provided. I even tried updating the firmware via the Lenovo website, rebooted, and tried the patches again, but they still failed each time at 20%. There was an experimental patch consisting of a region fix renamed to match the "normal" Lenovo firmware file, which I then re-combined and burnt to an ISO, but whereas the original Lenovo firmware ISO was immediately recognized at startup, the newly created patched ISO was not and booted into windows.

I then tried the DVD Multi p/n 39T2725 / 39T2673 (GSA-4080N) but that too gave me an "update failed" error. I suspect that although this software is listed at rpc1.org under IBM, it does NOT work on the current firmware version of this drive, HX03.

I haven't gotten around to testing the GSA-4083N (p/n 39T2679 / 39T2866) as I thought I had enough disappointment for one day.

So I may end up having to assign different drives to different regions. In that case, what I'd still like clarified is, if drives get set to a specific region, does that supercede the video player and windows controls, so I don't have to worry about them? Do they only come into play if there is no drive region detected for a drive, e.g. when using the RPC-1 patches? So drives could be swapped in and out of our multiple machines without causing any issues?

sktn77a · #18 Post by **sktn77a** » Wed May 21, 2008 11:34 am

I believe you still need to fool the player to ignore the region code with software, or use a player that doesn't recognize region codes.

blue2 · #19 Post by **blue2** » Wed May 21, 2008 11:48 am

Yes, that is what is unclear to me.

In several postings about RPC-1 patches, it indicated that after you disable the hardware region, then you have to deal with the MS and video player region controls. But if the drive has a region set, it is sure that the OS or software controls then come into play since a region has already been determined and that was indicated as superceeding these later controls...

ectso12 · #20 Post by **ectso12** » Wed May 21, 2008 12:30 pm

Well RPC1 is back up and I have download the firmware for the GSA-4083N drive and it all works perfectly.

If you use software player like powerDVD then you will need DVD region killer etc to fool the software player. Otherwise download KMPlayer (Freeware) that will play the DVD without checking region code. I have both the they work great.

Trekk69 · #21 Post by **Trekk69** » Wed May 21, 2008 12:53 pm

ectso12 wrote: If you use software player like powerDVD then you will need DVD region killer etc to fool the software player. Otherwise download KMPlayer (Freeware) that will play the DVD without checking region code. I have both the they work great.

So from what I gather from this, is that regardless of what region your DVD player is 'set to', you can just download a free software player program (a la the ones you mentioned) in order to be able to watch any DVD from any region, regardless of your DVD players 'set to'?

Thanks,

blue2 · #22 Post by **blue2** » Wed May 21, 2008 1:25 pm

ectso12 wrote:Well RPC1 is back up and I have download the firmware for the GSA-4083N drive and it all works perfectly.

What was the original firmware version of the GSA-4083N drive that you updated, since these firmwares seem to work on some but not all versions of the same drive.

crashnburn · #23 Post by **crashnburn** » Wed May 21, 2008 2:09 pm

Trekk69 wrote:
ectso12 wrote: If you use software player like powerDVD then you will need DVD region killer etc to fool the software player. Otherwise download KMPlayer (Freeware) that will play the DVD without checking region code. I have both the they work great.
So from what I gather from this, is that regardless of what region your DVD player is 'set to', you can just download a free software player program (a la the ones you mentioned) in order to be able to watch any DVD from any region, regardless of your DVD players 'set to'?

Thanks,

Which players would you recommend?

#24 Post by **gator** » Wed May 21, 2008 3:33 pm

VLC player and media player classic both do the job.

crashnburn · #25 Post by **crashnburn** » Wed May 21, 2008 4:17 pm

gator wrote:VLC player and media player classic both do the job.

I ve got those already

.

I remember using Intervideo WinDVD Platinum a while back and it was just fabulous as a player. Would it do the trick as well?

Any other recommended players?

ectso12 · #26 Post by **ectso12** » Wed May 21, 2008 4:52 pm

My GSA-4083N was originally version 1.08 RPC2 firmware which is region locked. I download the GSA-4083N IBM 1.08 from the Dangerous Brothers site and flash it with the RPC1 firmware. It all went smoothly. You may want to download a software call DVDinfo to check what drive you have and what firmware you have first before flashing.

I using KMPlayer which is developed by Korean and the beauty of it is that it has all media codecs built in so it can play all media files. It has no DVD region lock on the software side so once you have flashed your drive to RPC1 you are done. It has beautiful interface and is skinnable and best of all "FREE".

sktn77a · #27 Post by **sktn77a** » Thu May 22, 2008 6:39 am

I believe that WINDVD is an RPC-compliant software package so I think it will run out of region code changes too.

Trekk69 · #28 Post by **Trekk69** » Thu May 22, 2008 6:44 am

sktn77a wrote:I believe that WINDVD is an RPC-compliant software package so I think it will run out of region code changes too.

Thanks a lot
Appreciate it, will download it and give it a try!

blue2 · #29 Post by **blue2** » Thu May 22, 2008 7:37 am

sktn77a wrote:I believe that WINDVD is an RPC-compliant software package so I think it will run out of region code changes too.

Are you sure about that? In version 4 it clearly has a region counter, which I would magine means that it will always check....

sktn77a · #30 Post by **sktn77a** » Thu May 22, 2008 5:25 pm

RPC-compliant = region locked after the 5th count.

Do multiple DVD players permit different regions on Thinkpad

Do multiple DVD players permit different regions on Thinkpad

GSA-4083N works with RPC1 firmware

Re: GSA-4083N works with RPC1 firmware

Re: GSA-4083N works with RPC1 firmware

Re: GSA-4083N works with RPC1 firmware

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