Looking for a replacement for T20

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dman535 · #1 Post by **dman535** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:08 pm

Hi,

Looking for a a sub $1000 replacement for a T20. What are the milestone improvements over the rest of the T series? Any suggestions ?

Is there a listing somewhere of all the model differences in the IBM TP line ? (what makes a t series diffrent from an r series)

Thanks

Derek.-

ian · #2 Post by **ian** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:22 pm

Take a look at the TABOOK - you'll find out where it is by following this link

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=1689

(The Thinkpads.com FAQ)

The current TABOOK lists all current models - and has the specs for each and every one of them...

lfeagan · #3 Post by **lfeagan** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:44 pm

I don't know of a listing of the differences, but I would say the T23 is your best bet for a $500-$800 range of pricing. It will come with a PIII 1.0GHz or more, 512MB RAM, 30GB hard drive, DVD-ROM for about that much. The next step up is a T40, but finding a good one with decent specs for under 1k could be problematic. Just to get a feel for the market, search ebay for IBM T23 and you can get a good idea of what type of pricing and features to expect.

JHEM · #4 Post by **JHEM** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 4:04 pm

Lance,

The next step up from the T23 is the T30, not the T40.

Dman535,

Check eBay for T30s, you might get lucky and find one in your price range, but most tend to go for almost as much as an entry level T40.

Regards,

James

csv96 · #5 Post by **csv96** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:42 pm

Used T40's routinely sell on ebay for less than $1300. Not too long ago, there was a used T40p 2373G1U that closed for under $1100.

lfeagan · #6 Post by **lfeagan** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:22 pm

JHEM wrote:Lance,

The next step up from the T23 is the T30, not the T40.

Yeah, I know, but the T30 runs a P4, which I consider a downgrade. And I am being serious here. A P4 1.8 is going to be slower in just about everyway than a P3 1.13GHz. I can't recommend anyone get a P4 laptop in good conscience. I should have stated something to the effect of T23 or T40. I figured this omission wouldn't be bothersome to him. I was giving the answer without all the details.

JHanko · #7 Post by **JHanko** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:50 pm

lfeagan wrote:A P4 1.8 is going to be slower in just about everyway than a P3 1.13GHz.

I own a T23 1.2Ghz w/512mb ram and a T30 1.9GHz w/256mb ram. The T30 is much faster in every benchmark and with every application you run on them. Just my personal experience....

MadeInJapan · #8 Post by **MadeInJapan** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:41 pm

My T30, somewhat rare now? Runs with 2.0ghz P4 CPU and it flies!

JHEM · #9 Post by **JHEM** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:58 pm

Lance,

lfeagan wrote:A P4 1.8 is going to be slower in just about everyway than a P3 1.13GHz.

For the first time in recent memory I'm going to have to disagree with you.

My 2.0GHz P4M T30 with 1GB RAM will seriously smoke my 1.2GHz PIIIM T23 with 1GB RAM in every test or real world measurement I've ever performed on them. Both of them with 7K60 HDs and both running W2K SP4.

Regards,

James

lfeagan · #10 Post by **lfeagan** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:12 am

Okay, well, I am sure in your benchmarks that might be the case. I am feeling open-minded tonight and want to hear more of your testing, but I would like to talk some about my thoughts on this.

For starters, I am a strong believer in SPEC as an evaluator of CPU performance.. I have been somewhat involved with it and its methodologies make sense to me and seem worthy of using for analysis. Besides, it is *the* standard for anyone doing computational work.

First note, if you are running a Pentium 4-A, not a stock Pentium 4, that will have a somewhat large effect. Secondly, I was very careful to say a 1.8. I wanted to make sure it was a 1.8. I am very familiar with its performance as I have one. I will only use SPEC base results as the other results can be rather compiler option dependent. Base is a realistic evaluation of the CPU performance one can expect. Apps don't generally come built for your specific CPU.

Pentium 3 1.13GHz -- SPECint 561, SPECfloat 377
Pentium 3 1.26GHz -- SPECint 611, SPECfloat 422
Pentium 4 1.80GHz -- SPECint 599, SPECfloat 615
Pentium 4 2.00GHz -- SPECint 648, SPECfloat 715
Pentium 4-A 2.00GHz -- SPECint 738, SPECfloat 744

As we can tell, there is clearly a large performance gap in floating point abilities. But there is a virtually non-existent integer gap. In my work I have found the much shorter pipeline of the Pentium 3 to be extremely helpful. I think we can all see the great results shortening the pipeline has had on the PentiumM we all know and love. The long Pentium 4 pipeline can just really kill things.

I have a Pentium 4 1.80GHz with 256kB L2 and a Pentium 3 1.13GHz with 0.5MB L2 cache. It is a very fast chip. The extra cache really helps it out and watt for watt it is a better performing chip in my experience for notebooks. I respect your opinion though and would like to hear more of your thoughts.

Take it easy

JHanko · #11 Post by **JHanko** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:51 pm

Let's keep in mind Derek was asking advice on upgrading his laptop that I'm sure he will be using for everyday activities, not running SPEC all day. I love my T23, but I have given it to my wife. The only time I ever use it is when she has a problem and I have to fix it. Then I get reminded how slow it is compared to the T30. I prefer the thinner case of the T23, but that is the ONLY thing. The T30 has a faster processor, faster memory access and a MUCH better video card. All this adds up to a package that clearly beats the T23 in running applications, editing videos, playing games, etc. I cannot comment on the T40 series, as I have not been able to afford one yet. I could afford a base model T40, but that is a small upgrade from the T30 (same memory, same video card), but I love the thinner case

I'm saving up for a T42. My advice to you Derik is to buy the most you can afford and be patient. The T23 is a great laptop, but you will pay top dollar for a fast one with built in wireless. Also, you will not be able to upgrade the T23's built in wireless from b to g without losing the built in modem. You can find base model T30's cheaper than decked out T23's, and the good news is that all T30's come with antennae's in the LCD. Get a new Intel 2200BG card off Ebay for $35 and you'll have a very nice laptop with built in wireless g that will blow away a T23 and will cost less! Also, the T30 is upgradabe to 2.6 GHz. Can't do that with a T23. I'm sure a base model T40 is another good, ecenomical choice but I can't give any advice on it. Good luck finding one you like. Take your time and wait for the right deal to come along...

Jeff

#12 Post by **jdhurst** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 1:18 pm

JHanko wrote:<snip> My advice to you Derik is to buy the most you can afford and be patient. The T23 is a great laptop, but you will pay top dollar for a fast one with built in wireless. Also, you will not be able to upgrade the T23's built in wireless from b to g without losing the built in modem. You can find base model T30's cheaper than decked out T23's, and the good news is that all T30's come with antennae's in the LCD. Get a new Intel 2200BG card off Ebay for $35 and you'll have a very nice laptop with built in wireless g that will blow away a T23 and will cost less! Also, the T30 is upgradabe to 2.6 GHz. Can't do that with a T23. I'm sure a base model T40 is another good, ecenomical choice but I can't give any advice on it. Good luck finding one you like. Take your time and wait for the right deal to come along...

Jeff

That is good advice. I had a T23 P3 1.13GHz machine and it was (still is) a good general purpose machine. I had a T30 P4 2.0GHz machine and it was (still is) another good general purpose machine that is much faster than the T23. I now have a T41 PM that I successfully upgraded to a Dothan. It is the fastest of the bunch. So my advice (in addtion to the above) is to try to be flexible on price if you can. A little more than $1000 might land you with a faster, more modern machine that you can upgrade over time. ... JD Hurst

JHanko · #13 Post by **JHanko** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 1:28 pm

jdhurst wrote:So my advice (in addtion to the above) is to try to be flexible on price if you can. A little more than $1000 might land you with a faster, more modern machine that you can upgrade over time. ... JD Hurst

That is certainly more good advice. On a side note, I have a big problem with the T42.. I can't find one for ~$800.

lfeagan · #14 Post by **lfeagan** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:36 pm

Okay, fair enough, sounds like lots of people have found for their common uses their T30 is better. Back off to my corner....

Looking for a replacement for T20

Looking for a replacement for T20

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