Natty Wireless Problem

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#1 Post by **jdhurst** » Sat May 03, 2008 6:27 pm

I am having a natty problem with wireless and my T61p Vista box.

First, with my new Netopia G router, I face zero issues with my T41 XP machine using wireless. I faces zero issues with my T41, T61p and NetVista A30 when wired.

So to the T61p Vista and Wireless.

I perceive the following: On wireless, and using plain (unpassworded sites) I have no problem.

On two sites (this one and my security forum) where I log in, the login usually fails or is exceedingly slow. On this site, this kind of failure kills my saved login and makes me login again. So if I log out, the next access is *very* fast to load (not logged in), but when I login, it tends to slow down or fail. Similar problem with my security site.

Problem determination and elimination:
1. It cannot be the router (works perfectly with XP)
2. It cannot be the wireless card. I got a wireless card from Eric and I have the same issue with both cards (the original plus the one from Eric). It seems highly improbable that it be the card.
3. It can be the driver. I have the newest driver, and have done the uninstall/install tap dance.
4. It can be Vista. I can't rule this out, but then it seems to be OK when wired.

One Moderator suggested the tests at DSLReports, which I did. Three things from there:
1. My Java (at least in IE7 32-Bit) needed the agreement enabled. That helped a bit (but only a bit).
2. The same site suggested enabling ports 8085 and 8086 for their tweak test. I did that to no avail.
3. The Tweak Test II sometimes completes and sometimes does not, which is at the very core of the problem I am outlining here. There is no pattern, and as I say, enabling the ports does not help.

Any perceptive thoughts?

... JDH

Note about responding to this post.

1. Please do not tell me to dump IE7 and use something else. Don't post.

2. Please do not tell me what I use sucks. Don't post.

3. Please do not tell me not to use Vista. Don't post.

Yes, I have SP1 and all patches loaded.
Yes, I know what I am doing.

Some posters here are driving my useful posts into the Moderators Treehouse. Please post respectfully, and not drivel.
Thank you.

#2 Post by **Harryc** » Sat May 03, 2008 6:51 pm

JD, try disabling IPV6. It's a simple registry change, then reboot. It can be easily reversed if it does not help. I have a hunch it may though...

http://blog.tiensivu.com/aaron/archives ... -can..html

#3 Post by **jdhurst** » Sun May 04, 2008 7:29 am

Harry - I tried disabling IPV6, but it didn't make any real difference.

I tried a detailed examination this morning to be sure I am reporting correctly.

I started the T61p on an ethernet connection, tested, removed the cable and enabled wireless via Access Connections 4.52.

Here again is what I get:

Wired connection, Common sites (no passwords): No issues
Wired connection, password sites (this site): No issues
Wireless connection, common sites (no passwords): No issues
Wireless connection, passworded sites (this site): Connection hangs and doesn't complete fairly frequently.

... JDH

#4 Post by **Harryc** » Sun May 04, 2008 7:43 am

What about trying to adjust the MTU downward for the wireless adapter? I've never messed with it on Vista, but I have adjusted it to improve network performance on XP. There is a tutorial at dslreports.com that tells you how to calculate optimal MTU for XP ... if you look around there I am sure there is something similar for Vista. The second link actually tells you how to adjust MTU in Vista. I am really grabbing at straws here, but you have tried many things, this is just another possibility.

http://www.dslreports.com/faq/5793
http://www.dslreports.com/faq/15495

What would be an interesting test is to take this machine to a local hotspot and see if it behaves similarly.

#5 Post by **jdhurst** » Sun May 04, 2008 8:34 am

This thing is just nuts.

Without resetting a connection and without resetting the machine, I just copied over 3Gb of Cain rainbow tables from my Desktop (wired to the router) to my T61p (wireless G). It took a long time (somewhat more that twice as long then if I had gone wired), but it worked smoothly and with no dropouts or timeouts as seen graphically with DU Meter.

When that was done, I came here. Problems with timeouts.

So simulaneously, I opened up the Toronto Star in another tab. While I was getting timeouts here, I had no problem with any amount of browsing with Toronto Star. I have the same timeout problems with another password protected security site and a different bulletin board system, so it is not thinkpads.com per se.

@Harry - later today, I will look at the tweaks to see if there is anything I can do.

All very strange indeed. ... JDH

#6 Post by **GomJabbar** » Sun May 04, 2008 9:11 am

Here are a couple of possibly useful links...

You cannot connect to a wireless network on a Windows Vista-based computer

Error message when you try to automatically connect to a wireless access point that uses shared-mode network authentication in Windows Vista:
"Windows cannot connect to <access_point>"

Using the Network Diagnostics Tool

MSBBN: Wireless network connection drops every few minutes

#7 Post by **GomJabbar** » Sun May 04, 2008 7:05 pm

Here is another interesting link I just happened to stumble on this evening while reading my week-old email.

How to Troubleshoot Black Hole Router Issues

This is related to Harryc's post above re: MTU size.

fuscob · #8 Post by **fuscob** » Sun May 04, 2008 7:21 pm

Please don't perceive this as a "dump IE7" response, but does this happen in all browsers?

#9 Post by **jdhurst** » Sun May 04, 2008 7:21 pm

There may be something in this last post.

When I set a packet size of 1366 in Vista or in XP to my base Desktop IP address, I get a good reply.

Above about 1366, in Vista I get a timeout (typical no answer). In XP, I get "packet needs to be fragmented, DF sent"

So I will see if I can adjust this.
... JDH

#10 Post by **Harryc** » Sun May 04, 2008 7:39 pm

JD, I run into this MTU type problem all the time on the Linux forums. It frequently occurs with Firefox on Linux, and it does occur on Windows although it's a bit more rare. Let us know how you make out.

#11 Post by **jdhurst** » Sun May 04, 2008 9:15 pm

Up at the top of this post, Number 3 says: It may be the driver.

The following happened.

After I did the uninstall/install tap dance on the driver, System Update said the driver needed updating with the same driver. I ran that with no success. That was yesterday. Today I ran System update again, and it continues to tell me the wireless driver needs updating. I ran the SU download but don't install, ran the install separately, checked that the update succeeded and restarted. SU continues to say the wireless driver needs updating.

Now, what I did next, I don't know exactly why, except that I continue to check everything. I went into the properties of the wireless NIC, checked the driver level (correct), clicked on update driver, pointed it to my own driver download location, and it actually updated the driver. This is unusual. Normally that process will say that the installed driver is the latest.

Now, the wireless is truly working better. Perhaps the SU update is not working properly, or has access to a somewhat incorrect version.

Fingers crossed, this may be working. I haven't yet shutdown, so we are not out of the woods yet. But if it works, this solution makes sense.
... JDH

davekung · #12 Post by **davekung** » Fri May 09, 2008 12:18 pm

JDH,

Check to see if the SUService is running. I was having problem installing updates via system update as I disabled the SUservice. Once it is enabled, system update was able correctly install all updates.

Also I would try intel Wieless driver posted on their website. I solved my problem of slow connecting, not seeing non- broadcasting SSID with WPA encrypted router.

I have intel 3945abg

#13 Post by **jdhurst** » Fri May 09, 2008 5:26 pm

I have found some information I think may be useful.

In addition to this problem (thanks for all the answers), I noticed today that I was losing my network connection to my host XP Pro machine. That loss of connection stopped synchronization of my offline folders on the Vista machine. I cannot say how long this has been going on, because I have only just started maintain a connection at length.

In researching this latter problem, I found numerous references to the network share connection problem in addition to the initial problem of this post. Many posts (including Microsoft support items) pointed to the TCP Autotuning feature in Vista and suggested disabling it. Here is the command:

netsh interface tcp set global autotuninglevel=disabled

Should you wish to reset the feature, type:

netsh interface tcp set global autotuninglevel=normal

... JDH

pae77 · #14 Post by **pae77** » Sat May 10, 2008 5:38 am

I was having some wireless connection problems with my vista machine (XP box worked fine) that were resolved by updating my router's firmware. This might be worth trying if you haven't done so already.

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