T43 Discussion!!

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Champ · #1 Post by **Champ** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:14 am

Plan ThinkPad T43 which will go on the market in next year first quarter will uses Intel the 915GM chip group, 533MHZ FSB Dothan 2.13gHz, DDR2 533mHz Memory, ATI M22 (T43p is M24GL), sur- fingerprint recognition. T43 will compare in the T42 performance has the very big promotion, " will taste the fingerprint recognizer fresh " in T42 also becomes the standard disposition in T43.

from some chinese website. If anyone has any info lets us know!

For now lets start discussing whether the t43 will actually be better.

skanky · #2 Post by **skanky** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:44 am

Champ wrote:...will taste the fingerprint recognizer fresh...

will taste fresh? we have to lick the reader for it to authenticate now?

Champ · #3 Post by **Champ** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:51 am

meh google translating.. I'm thinking it'll be refreshed

#4 Post by **K. Eng** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:46 am

I am confident that the T43 will be a faster and more power efficient computing platform.

The new chipset (915PM & GM, aka Alviso) should have the benefit of a process shrink as well as more aggressive power saving features. DDR2 memory requires lower voltage than standard DDR, and should run cooler than DDR even at higher frequencies.

I wouldn't expect anything really revolutionary. To the external user, the T43 will simply appear to be a faster version of older T4x. Internally, I would expect the system board design to be a bit simpler due to PCIe interconnects and integration of audio into the ICH (southbridge).

Champ wrote: For now lets start discussing whether the t43 will actually be better.

JohnDrake · #5 Post by **JohnDrake** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:49 am

It will also have PCI Express video and slots. No PCMCIA.

#6 Post by **jdhurst** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:56 am

The lack of serial ports on newer "T"'s is hampering some business applications (such as programming other physical devices). Some of these applications are so old you need to run them in a VMware session with Windows 98. But Windows 98 will not support USB2, so there is no way to go out the USB with a serial converter.

In the same way, eliminating the PCMCIA ports will kill my Sony Ericcson wireless connection. This method is the most flexible connection to be had, and at twice the speed of the best dial-up is very useful as well.

So while I like new technology, there seem to be ever more give-ups in terms of legacy and other necessary applications. YMMV ... JD Hurst

Conmee · #7 Post by **Conmee** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:13 pm

The new T43 machines will continue to support PCMCIA/CardBus, but in what are now two CardBus slots, the upper slot will support both 34mm/54mm ExpressCard cards, while the lower slot will support CardBus/PCMCIA. In addition, there will be no initial support of either SATA or "Azalia" (advanced sound) which will be added when the upcoming ICH6-M is introduced as part of a "T50" refresh in 2H2005.

The biggest news with the T43 will be 533MHZ FSB, faster CPUs, PCI Express bus (mainly to support new ATI PCI Express GPUs and ExpressCard), with continued backward compatibility for use in Dock II's (PCI still supported) and PC Card devices.

Daniel.

Conmee · #8 Post by **Conmee** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:15 pm

jdhurst wrote:The lack of serial ports... JD Hurst

And as always, there will be no serial, Firewire, or widescreen offerings. In fact, the form-factor/footprint will be identical to current offerings.

Maybe with the Lenovo sale we'll see some additional elements like those I just mentioned introduced into the T Series...

Daniel.

AtmosMan · #9 Post by **AtmosMan** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:32 pm

Conmee wrote:The new T43 machines will continue to support PCMCIA/CardBus, but in what are now two CardBus slots, the upper slot will support both 34mm/54mm ExpressCard cards, while the lower slot will support CardBus/PCMCIA.

This would be great. I want so many things that require a PCMCIA slot. If IBM does this, I'll be very happy.

JHEM · #10 Post by **JHEM** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 2:05 pm

jdhurst wrote:The lack of serial ports on newer "T"'s is hampering some business applications (such as programming other physical devices).

I have had so many problems with getting my legacy air/water sampling devices to work with USB/Serial and PCMCIA/Serial adapters that I have taken to carrying an extra PRII with me when I'm on the road.

A less than elegant solution, but it beats carrying an extra 600X or one of my other "T" machines with me, something I had resorted to in the past when necessary.

I would gladly give up the parallel port in favor of the return of the serial port!

Regards,

James

#11 Post by **jdhurst** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 3:11 pm

JHEM wrote:<snip>
I would gladly give up the parallel port in favor of the return of the serial port!
James

Seconded!

rjm1135 · #12 Post by **rjm1135** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:47 pm

Conmee wrote:The biggest news with the T43 will be 533MHZ FSB, faster CPUs, PCI Express bus (mainly to support new ATI PCI Express GPUs and ExpressCard), with continued backward compatibility for use in Dock II's (PCI still supported) and PC Card devices.

Daniel.

So with PCI Express GPUs - do you think they will be upgradeable on the T43?

Cheers,
Rob.

JohnDrake · #13 Post by **JohnDrake** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:40 pm

I've had the best luck with the IOGEAR USB to serial adapter. Seems to work better than others.

http://www.iogear.com/main.php?loc=product&Item=GUC232A

Champ · #14 Post by **Champ** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:37 pm

for me its cheaper to change to usb devices so meh.

but i never use the parallel port so.. hmm...

One thing I would like is a really good SVGA port with a retractable SVGA cable incl seperately. That way It'll be easier to hook up to TVs and projectors but that's okay

#15 Post by **K. Eng** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:56 pm

It depends. The problem with upgradable GPUs is that the socketing mechanism takes up valuable space on the system board.

I've seen pictures of PCIe WiFi cards and they are significantly smaller than mPCI WiFi cards (both are internal models), but whether the same shrinkage factors will apply to video cards remains to be seen.

My guess is that GPUs will not be upgradable in the T43.

rjm1135 wrote: So with PCI Express GPUs - do you think they will be upgradeable on the T43?

Cheers,
Rob.

Cronus71 · #16 Post by **Cronus71** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:35 am

T43 will feature new 915PM/915GM chipset with DDR2 memory, PCI Express technology and ExpressCard slot, integrated and discrete graphics.

14" and 15" Entry level T43 – announcing 01/18/05

Pentium M processor 730 (1.6GHz, 533MHz FSB, 2MB L2 cache), 256MB, 40GB 5400rpm, 6-cell Li-Ion, modem, Gigabit, ESS, Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 900

14.1” XGA
1871-11U Centrino b/g, DVD, Win XP Pro
1871-12U Centrino b/g, Combo, Win XP Pro
1871-13U Centrino b/g, Combo, FPR, Win XP Home
1871-16U Centrino b/g, Combo, FPR, Win XP Pro

15” XGA
1871-22U Centrino b/g, Combo, Win XP Pro
1871-24U Centrino b/g, Combo, Win XP Pro, FPR

14" Workhorse models – announcing 01/18/05
Pentium M processor 750 (1.8GHz, 533MHz FSB, 2MB L2 cache), Win XP Pro, 40GB 5400rpm, 6-cell Li-Ion, modem, Gigabit, ESS

14.1” XGA, Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 900
1871-48U Centrino a/b/g, 512MB, DVD
1871-4BU Centrino a/b/g, 512MB, Combo, Bluetooth, FPR
1871-4CU Centrino a/b/g, 512MB, Combo, Bluetooth

14.1” XGA, M22-64MB VRAM
2668-41U Wireless ready, 256MB, DVD
2668-49U Centrino a/b/g, 512MB, Combo
2668-45U Centrino a/b/g, 512MB, Combo, Bluetooth, FPR

14.1” SXGA+, M22-64MB VRAM
2668-4EU Centrino a/b/g, 512MB, Combo, Bluetooth, FPR

15" Workhorse models – announcing 01/18/05

Pentium M processor 750 (1.8GHz, 533MHz FSB, 2MB L2 cache), Win XP Pro, 512MB, 6-cell Li-Ion, modem, Gigabit, ESS

15” XGA, Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 900
1871-86U Centrino a/b/g, 40GB 5400rpm, Combo, FPR

15” XGA, M22-64MB VRAM
2668-87U Centrino a/b/g, 40GB 5400rpm, Combo

15” SXGA+ IPS, M22-64MB VRAM
2668-88U Centrino a/b/g, 40GB 5400rpm, Combo
2668-85U Centrino a/b/g, 40GB 5400rpm, Combo, FPR
2668-89U Centrino a/b/g, 80GB 5400rpm, Combo, FPR

14" and 15" Global Workhorse models – announcing 01/18/05
Pentium M processor 750 (1.8GHz, 533MHz FSB, 2MB L2 cache), Win XP Pro, 512MB, 40GB 5400rpm, 6-cell Li-Ion, modem, Gigabit, ESS

14.1” XGA, Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 900
1871-4AU Centrino b/g, Combo

14.1” XGA, M22-64MB VRAM
2668-42U Wireless ready, DVD
2668-43U Centrino b/g, DVD
2668-44U Centrino b/g, Combo, FPR

14.1” SXGA+, M22-64MB VRAM
2668-46U Centrino b/g, Combo
2668-4DU Centrino b/g, Combo, FPR

15” XGA, M22-64MB VRAM
2668-83U Centrino b/g, Combo, FPR

15” SXGA+ IPS, M22-64MB VRAM
2668-84U Centrino b/g, Combo, Bluetooth

14" and 15" Leadership models – announcing 01/18/05
Pentium M processor 760 (2.0GHz, 533MHz FSB, 2MB L2 cache), Win XP Pro, 512MB, 6-cell Li-Ion, modem, Gigabit, ESS, M22-64MB VRAM, Bluetooth

14.1” SXGA+
2668-71U Centrino a/b/g, 80GB 5400rpm, Combo, FPR
2668-72U Centrino a/b/g, 80GB 5400rpm, Multi-Burner, FPR
2668-73U Centrino a/b/g, 80GB 5400rpm, Combo

15” SXGA+ IPS
2668-91U Centrino a/b/g, 80GB 5400rpm, Combo
2668-93U Centrino a/b/g, 80GB 5400rpm, Combo, FPR
2668-92U Centrino a/b/g, 80GB 5400rpm, Multi-Burner, FPR
2668-94U Centrino a/b/g, 60GB 7200rpm, Combo, FPR

15" Workstation models - T43p – announcing 01/18/05
Pentium M processor 770 (2.1GHz, 533MHz FSB, 2MB L2 cache), Win XP Pro, 15” UXGA, 1GB, 60GB 7200rpm, 9-cell Li-Ion, modem, Gigabit, ESS, M24GL-128MB VRAM, Bluetooth

2668-H1U Centrino a/b/g, Combo, FPR
2668-H2U Centrino b/g, Multi-Burner, FPR
2668-H4U Centrino a/b/g, Combo
2668-H5U Centrino a/b/g, Multi-Burner

14" Workstation models T43p – announcing 01/18/05
Pentium M processor 770 (2.1GHz, 533MHz FSB, 2MB L2 cache), Win XP Pro, 14.1” SXGA+, 1GB, 60GB 7200rpm, 9-cell Li-Ion, modem, Gigabit, ESS, M24GL-128MB VRAM, Bluetooth

2668-G1U Centrino a/b/g, Combo, FPR
2668-G3U Centrino a/b/g, Combo
2668-G2U Centrino a/b/g, Multi-Burner, FPR

rocketman · #17 Post by **rocketman** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:04 am

H'm now that I see the T43 is being released on 1/18 I'm still wondering if I should return my recently acquired T42 2379R9U, I have 4-5 days to decide.. I really like this machine a lot and don't know if I'll see such a leap in performance that it's worth returning it, I also got it for a good price, usually I buy a computer at the beginning of a model cycle.

Conmee · #18 Post by **Conmee** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:21 am

1-18-05 is the 'announce' date, GA will be mid-February for discrete GPUs, and approx. first half of March for the integrated video.

Daniel.

Aramitz · #19 Post by **Aramitz** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:53 am

rocketman wrote: I really like this machine a lot and don't know if I'll see such a leap in performance

Since a base100 1,8 Ghz Dothan how much can we wait for a 1,8 Ghz 533 FSB ? 110 ?

miccocan · #20 Post by **miccocan** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 12:59 pm

just a question, M24 graphic card is X600, is the performance of X600 and 9600 basically the same? if thats the case that means T42p and T43p video performance will be very similar?

lfeagan · #21 Post by **lfeagan** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:14 pm

miccocan wrote:just a question, M24 graphic card is X600, is the performance of X600 and 9600 basically the same? if thats the case that means T42p and T43p video performance will be very similar?

Precisely, benchmarks confirm this too. So don't expect suddenly to get some out of this world graphics. Until we see a mobile 9800 class part in our beloved T50/p (/me crosses fingers) we won't have a computer entirely worthy of being a mobile workstation.

Conmee · #22 Post by **Conmee** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:15 pm

X600 is essentially a MR9700-PCI Express component. Will also include some new features like updated PowerPlay 5.0 and LCD Enhancement Engine designed to improve digital video and HD on LCD screens. So you should see comparable/slightly improved performance in the X600 when compared to the MR9700, and certainly much better performance when compared to the MR9600.

Here's a snippet and URL...

"ATi has previously announced their Mobility Radeon X600 GPU codenamed M24 at Computex Taipei back in June this year and is the first mobile GPU offering that is native PCI Express based. Mobility Radeon X600 shares that same architecture of its predecessor, the Mobility Radeon 9700 with Low-K 0.13 micron process but has an upgraded 3D core which further boosts graphics performance. It has 4 pixel pipes, 2 vertex pipes and based on 128-bit DDR memory interface. (Check out our Computex Taipei 2004 report)

It supports DirectX 9.0 features, reduced LCD latency, LCD-EE display engine which increase display quality at higher resolutions and Powerplay 5 which improved power management for longer battery life. Mobility Radeon X600 is available in 3 different versions: a discreet version for high-performance notebooks based on the new mobile graphics interface Axiom (Advanced eXpress IO Module) as well as 64 or 128MB integrated memory for thin and light based on the reliable MCM (Multi-Chip Module) technology.
"

http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=1064&s=1

Daniel.

Conmee · #23 Post by **Conmee** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:27 pm

Probably the most relevant quote...

"It is pretty clear that Mobility X600 offers better performance than the Mobility Radeon 9700 with higher 3DMark2003 and Aquamark GFX scores."

The 3dMark 2003 score for X600 = 3220
The 3dMark 2003 score for 9700 = 2933
The 3dMark 2003 score for GLT2 = 2629 (my own T42p score)

Since the new T43/T43p with Fire GL based on X600 (M24) and NOT on the X800

, there will still be a substantial increase in performance. If you like how Doom3 and HL2 run on your MR9600/64MB or FireGLT2/128MB ThinkPads, then those games should look awesome on the T43p.

Daniel.

nicpottier · #24 Post by **nicpottier** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:55 pm

So can someone clear up whether the 'discrete' video models will indeed be upgradeable? That's what comes to my head when I hear discrete, but maybe I'm just being optimistic.

I think this is the one I've been waiting for to replace my aging Powerbook (oof is Eclipse getting slow!).

-Nic

Conmee · #25 Post by **Conmee** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 2:02 pm

OEMs have the option of using AXIOM 'boards', essentially the upgradeable GPUs from ATI (AXIOM is ATI's term for their upgradeable PCI Express mobile GPU boards). However, the X300/X600/GL will all be of the FlexFit variety and soldered to the T43 motherboard. There will not be upgradeable video components in ThinkPads in 2005. Current IBM ThinkPad roadmaps are in place for the next 18 months, so any changes that Lenovo might introduce won't appear until 2006 at the earliest.

Daniel.

"AXIOM™ (Advanced eXpress I/O Module) is a new design concept, enabling Notebook designers and users to reap the benefit of PCI Express, and achieve faster time-to-market with cutting edge, innovative solutions. "

nicpottier · #26 Post by **nicpottier** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 2:30 pm

Thanks for the details (and for the specs so early!)

Looks like the one for me will be the top of the line non-p. Wish I could get an SXGA+ with 128mb of VRAM, but I don't suppose it'll make that much of a difference for my applications.

Anybody know where I can see a T42P with a UXGA in the Seattle area? My feeling is it's probably a bit too small for me but would be nice to see one in person.

-Nic

AtmosMan · #27 Post by **AtmosMan** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 3:38 pm

It's cool to see the specs now. Looks pretty good. Oh by the way, the Pentium M 770 is 2.13 GHz....just to be picky

. But really, thanks Cronus.

Champ · #28 Post by **Champ** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:47 pm

I want either the 2668-94U Centrino a/b/g, 60GB 7200rpm, Combo, FPR or 2668-H2U Centrino b/g, Multi-Burner, FPR

#29 Post by **BillMorrow** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:35 pm

in times past, there was a ThinkPad Advisory Council which met once a year (or so)..
it was comprised of members ibm thought would help in focusing the future design and direction of thinkpads..
it died after 911..

reading this thread is about as instructive of what the users want/need as the old advisory group might produce..

perhaps the new PC entity, Lenovo-IBM(?), might resurrect the council or, perhaps, ask for (and receive) a special section here for new ideas for future thinkpads..

all this said, the thoughts presented above are good and i want to add only that the next "whiz-BANG" feature should be an optional cellular internet device..

lfeagan · #30 Post by **lfeagan** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:47 pm

If IBM wants to know more about Thinkpads and their users they should come here

They should use the Poll features to find out what we want

LOL

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